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 Post subject: Book 4 - Page 187
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:13 pm 
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New One is up.

"Das Maschinengewehr 08" is used under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) license, attributable to Digital Library@Villanova University

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:17 pm 
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    Where the hell is charlie getting german combat manuals from? The extra universal channels on the dish, or is he just summoning combat books from other planets?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:17 pm 
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    Looks like German, anybody care to translate?
    Otherwise I’m completely confused

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:19 pm 
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    I'm glad it makes sense to Ivan, 'cause it lost me. :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:22 pm 
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    It looks like it's a pre-existing image, probably from a ww1 or ww2 era document. We might be able to get a complete translation if we can figure out which document it is.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:25 pm 
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    hmm, jugding from the typefont, it is an old manual from somewhere during or between world war one and two. The text says: The shooting of (with) machineguns. I cannot read all the text because the english one is superimposed over but it deals with the proper laying of crossfires.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:25 pm 
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    Enfilade: Direct a volley of gunfire along a line.
    Defilade: Protect against enemy gunfire or observation.

    Simply put, they're going to fall back to a position where they can fire from cover, and in so doing force the barbarians to break cover themselves.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:28 pm 
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    Shai hulud wrote:
    Where the hell is charlie getting german combat manuals from? The extra universal channels on the dish, or is he just summoning combat books from other planets?


    The extra universal channels. It probably works like the internet. Maybe he carnied in some findamancy to make a Google-like feature.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:29 pm 
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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfilade_and_defilade

    pretty darned neat tactics (for erfworld) from Ivan here. If he could learn this well from listening to Charlie, I suspect he and Parson are going to get along swimmingly, lol. I wonder if Ivan will be able to help the Tool understand Parson better...hmm.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:30 pm 
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    I suspect this is also why Claud's action figure had a Stormtrooper helmet. He has probably actually seen pictures of real German Stahlhelms.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:31 pm 
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    What Ganurath said. Heh.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:32 pm 
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    "Principle" not "principal", though.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:37 pm 
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    greyhare wrote:
    "Principle" not "principal", though.


    :oops: Will retconjure, thanks

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:57 pm 
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    Ganurath wrote:
    Enfilade: Direct a volley of gunfire along a line.
    Defilade: Protect against enemy gunfire or observation.

    Simply put, they're going to fall back to a position where they can fire from cover, and in so doing force the barbarians to break cover themselves.

    Nice. I suppose it's even better to enfilade from multiple directions simultaneously, though being outnumbered will make that tricky -- and the lack of the Wrench in a bedrock tunnel would make it impossible to whip up an extra tunnel.

    I've learned a bit of German, though I'm sure it's no Charlie-esque level of insight. I'll see if I can scrape up a few lines.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:09 am 
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    Shai hulud wrote:
    It looks like it's a pre-existing image, probably from a ww1 or ww2 era document. We might be able to get a complete translation if we can figure out which document it is.


    Das Maschinengewehr 08 : Auszug aus dem Unterrichtsbuch für die Maschinengewehr - Kompagnien / herausgegeben Friedrich von Merkatz.

    Page 181.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:31 am 
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    Thanks! Found it online. The full manual is here.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:35 am 
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    Shai hulud wrote:
    I suspect this is also why Claud's action figure had a Stormtrooper helmet. He has probably actually seen pictures of real German Stahlhelms.

    ...took me a second to remember that Stormtroopers have been around since way before Star Wars. :charlie: "Let's learn something about war," indeed.

    ///

    That first diagram has "zug" for "corner / nook," and "Kreuzfeuer" sounds like it'd be "crossfire." Bandaid already translated the title.

    The rest is rather beyond my sentence structure, but I did look up a few translations just now. "Bild" simply means "image, picture, etc." and the first paragraph has an early "befiehlt" and a late "Befehl" and "befehlen" -- the last of which is the root of the other and means "to give an order," which sounds handy for firing discipline. (In fact, the Befehl of Kreuzfeuer sounds like calling out to start the crossed shootout. Hmm... Ivan might have learned how to set up a safe line of fire, but does he know how to do it without teamkilling?)

    And the last paragraph's "ausführung" means "execution." I thought that meant in the sense of killing people, so I translated as many words as I could... only to find that it probably means "execution" in the sense of "getting the job done." More or less, that paragraph means, "the execution occurs in Images 27 and 28 -- specifically, always done in such a manner that the group of nooks stay next to one another and not where they'll act over the cross again."

    ...That sounds pretty much like what Charlie's diagram already shows. Go figure.

    blue text = had to go to Shai hulud's link to see those words

    ///

    So if a blog is a web log, and Parson's klog is a book log, then Ivan's clog could be... Eh, it's late -- the best I can guess right now is "spec log" -- which could mean his spectacles, his specifications, or both.

    ...of course, a clog could have a more obvious meaning like blockage or a shoe, but Ivan's no plumber, and Claud is in no mood for shoes.

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    Last edited by Brother Mirtillo on Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:44 am 
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    I'm a bored long-time native-german speaking lurker, so here's my translation of what's readable:

    Top paragraph says:
    "If this is the case, it must be shouted/yelled to the company leader - before firing starts, if possible - so that he [covered] command (the verb, not the noun) [covered]"

    Lower part says:
    "[covered] receives the command "Crossfire!" must follow it immediately. This is one of the few commands necessary for "Feuerleitung" (leading of fire? directing of fire? it's some old military term I don't know) that must be followed immediately.
    The procedure will be done as in pictures 27 and 28, and always in a way so that the "Farben" (this means 'colors'... Unless I missread the first letter, but I can't make sense of it) of a "Zug" (a military unit, literally means 'train') remain next to each other and [covered] not cross again [covered]."

    EDIT:
    Brother Mirtillo wrote:
    Shai hulud wrote:
    I suspect this is also why Claud's action figure had a Stormtrooper helmet. He has probably actually seen pictures of real German Stahlhelms.

    ...took me a second to remember that Stormtroopers have been around since way before Star Wars. :charlie: "Let's learn something about war," indeed.

    ///

    That first diagram has "zug" for "corner / nook," and "Kreuzfeuer" sounds like it'd be "crossfire." Bandaid already translated the title.

    The rest is rather beyond my sentence structure, but I did look up a few translations just now. "Bild" simply means "image, picture, etc." and the first paragraph has an early "befiehlt" and a late "Befehl" and "befehlen" -- the last of which is the root of the other and means "to give an order," which sounds handy for firing discipline. (In fact, the Befehl of Kreuzfeuer sounds like calling out to start the crossed shootout. Hmm... Ivan might have learned how to set up a safe line of fire, but does he know how to do it without teamkilling?)

    And the last paragraph's "ausführung" means "execution." I thought that meant in the sense of killing people, so I translated as many words as I could... only to find that it probably means "execution" in the sense of "getting the job done." More or less, that paragraph means, "the execution occurs in Images 27 and 28 -- specifically, always done in such a manner that the group of nooks stay next to one another and not where they'll act over the cross again."

    ...That sounds pretty much like what Charlie's diagram already shows. Go figure.

    blue text = had to go to Shai hulud's link to see those words

    ///

    So if a blog is a web log, and Parson's klog is a book log, then Ivan's clog could be... Eh, it's late -- the best I can guess right now is "spec log" -- which could mean his spectacles, his specifications, or both.

    ...of course, a clog could have a more obvious meaning like blockage or a shoe, but Ivan's no plumber, and Claud is in no mood for shoes.


    Ninja'd, kind off?
    You are mostly correct, "Ausführung" literally means "execution" (I couldn't think of that word while I translated it), but only as in "executing an order" or "executing a set procedure". It also means executing an executable file on a PC, for example :-)

    I'm pretty sure you got "Zug" wrong, though. As I said in my attempt, it means "train", but can also mean "move" or "turn" in a game. In this case, I'm pretty sure its used in it's military meaning though: A "Zug" is a unit of troops (don't ask me what size, no idea) - I think it would be a 'column' of troops in English? - and the diagrams show how these troops should overlap their fire while being position next to each other on a battlefield.

    I can translate the rest of the page from the original if anyone is really interested, but I don't think there more hidden meaning for speculation there :-)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:05 am 
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    Daevin wrote:
    "If this is the case, it must be shouted/yelled to the company leader - before firing starts, if possible - so that he [covered] command (the verb, not the noun) [covered]"

    "[covered] receives the command "Crossfire!" must follow it immediately. This is one of the few commands necessary for "Feuerleitung" (leading of fire? directing of fire? it's some old military term I don't know) that must be followed immediately.
    The procedure will be done as in pictures 27 and 28, and always in a way so that the "Farben" (this means 'colors'... Unless I missread the first letter, but I can't make sense of it) of a "Zug" (a military unit, literally means 'train') remain next to each other and [covered] not cross again [covered]."

    Vielen dank! I was using wiktionary and slipped onto the Hungarian translation of "zug" instead of the German one. Oops.

    I assumed the one word was Garben (= sheafs?) instead of Farben, but those old-timey letters are tricky. Doesn't make much sense either way, but the rest of your translation is a big help, so thanks again!

    ...Now, let's see just how much of it Ivan really remembers.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:11 am 
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    I bet the walls with those firing holes are made of bedrock.

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