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 Post subject: Book 3 - Page 326
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 11:57 pm 
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New One is up.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:02 am 
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    Interesting... SO. Asides from the obvious question of what's going to happen with Deisaac and the Pliers, I think this confirms that the Pliers are NOT in fact a tool of Ark (as they were created after the titans made the world), which raises the question of whether any of the other Arkentools really are as well. And if they're not, then why are they so much more powerful?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:02 am 
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGp9P6QvMjY

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    Last edited by Shai hulud on Wed May 30, 2018 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:02 am 
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    What.

    The boop.

    Did the Minds just awaken the Pliers?

    Man... I thought talking towers were quirky... Now, we get to converse with someone who's had a front-row seat on front-line action.

    I hope they're friendly.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:04 am 
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    Or am I getting really confused? In fact, is this update from POV of the Pliers or of Deisaac as separate from his constituent fragments? That I suspect may be the key question.

    edit: OH. Well, this calls for rhyme-o-mancy.

    Deisaac, the Pliers Awaken.
    In hubris you sought to remake 'em,
    But as a new Tower,
    Their infinite power,
    disintegrates Isaac, unshaken.

    Edit edit: changed up a word for clarity. Retake -> unmake.

    Edit edit edit: Eventually I'll figure out what's going on in this update. Changed the same word, again. Unmake -> remake.


    Last edited by Cinder39134 on Wed May 30, 2018 12:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:05 am 
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    So um.

    That happened.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:05 am 
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    Can I have that update again in english please? The fact that I am currently tired as hell might be a hindrance.

    Anyway, does this mean the Arkentools are sentient? Or gained sentience? At least the Arkenpliers?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:06 am 
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    Cinder39134 wrote:
    Or am I getting really confused? In fact, is this update from POV of the Pliers or of Deisaac as separate from his constituent fragments? That I suspect may be the key question.

    This is from the PoV of our Arkentool.

    Looks like Isaac just awakened it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:08 am 
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    Imagine, if you will, a world in which Helen Keller was not an American woman, but instead a magical pair of pliers.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:16 am 
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    Bandaid wrote:
    Anyway, does this mean the Arkentools are sentient? Or gained sentience? At least the Arkenpliers?

    Signs point to yes, at least for the latter two. (And yes, I do think this is all from the POV of the Pliers.) I'm sure more explicit things are around the corner.

    It's just that I don't know if any of those things are what the characters wanted to see. They might want their uncertainty back.

    Too bad.

    I'm particularly wary of a couple of things. One is that the ordinary-weapon narrator couldn't consider themselves "the other word" a moment ago. I suppose that word would have been "Arkentool" though I can't be sure. Would that mean that this Arkentool isn't going to regard itself as such anymore? (To quote Charlie, "I'm nobody's Tool.")

    The second rumbling omen is the web of green circuit-board lines. Ever since linking with Ivan, Big Think thought it understood the concept of wiring. I think they (or maybe just the Pliers) got plugged into a network bigger than any we've ever seen.

    ...maybe they didn't just awaken a tower -- maybe they awakened the planet.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:19 am 
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    I love the string-shadow projected behind Big Think. He may be State 8, but the Tool of the Titans knows exactly how to take him apart.

    This bodes ill for Isaac's resurrection plan, if his body is going to be permanently occupied by an angry needlenose pliers and its collection of pet thinkafragments.

    EDIT: and "She doesn't think that's possible" is a nice touch too. Seems that Wanda is a hard determinist to the core.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:23 am 
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    Wowzers! That's a mindful, and then some.

    My wild guess is this is written from the point of view of the Arkenpliers, talking to tangled thread guy (DeIsaac). The pliers uses the phrase fragments a lot, which I *think* might be reference to all the the tangled pieces of the Great Minds.

    At least, after my third reading it seemed to make sense that the fragments were the Great Minds - and then the artwork seems to imply the reaction the Great Mind tangle is having after being posed that final question.

    Or maybe it is something completely different. :-)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:24 am 
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    In terms of the actual signamancy of the awakening as an event, I see the threads inside the pillar of Jed, behind Deisaac. They lead directly to his foot. Does that mean Deisaac is getting unwoven at a fundamental level from the backlash of the State 8 finally breaking apart, or is pineapple writing pineappleself into the Source itself, or does the power thus released expose the fundamental links behind the world, stripping away the signamancy that covers it up?

    There's also the wires, which remind me of a circuit board. And now they're on Deisaac as well, or maybe we can simply see them there now. That definitely can't be good for anyone, except maybe Wanda. Honestly though, I wonder if she'll be able to control the Pliers now that they've awoken, or if, like Jed and the rest, they won't take orders, just suggestions.

    Also, I find it very interesting that the Pliers do not call it croaking, or death, or even non-existence, but instead simply not-life. Also, they seem to disbelieve in the idea of Fate, and yet still they believe in the Titans. A very curious set of beliefs, that...

    Welp, ninja'd. Still, I think this is valuable discourse, so I'll say it anyway.

    (Edit: Dammit, I'm really not having much luck here. I'll check in tomorrow. The link is a State 8, not an 8-caster link.)


    Last edited by Cinder39134 on Wed May 30, 2018 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:27 am 
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    The pliers are turnamancy? Well, they dispense it, so maybe it's also turnamancy.

    Also, apparently the tools didn't start out aware. I suppose they were wary of aware wares where the wares were worn. Woulda been bad to have hammer bust a titanic nut.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:28 am 
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    Are the pliers... alive? This is the craziest page of the comic I swear.

    They are. Big Think brought them to life in the same was as the portals. Which they could because, like the portals, the pliers are Titanic magic. Original to the Erf.

    What do they want?

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    Last edited by DunkelMentat on Wed May 30, 2018 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:30 am 
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    The pliers are alive, and they can break the 4th wall.

    That. Is. Terrifying.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:31 am 
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    Cinder39134 wrote:
    [...]I think this confirms that the Pliers are NOT in fact a tool of Ark (as they were created after the titans made the world), which raises the question of whether any of the other Arkentools really are as well. And if they're not, then why are they so much more powerful?

    That'd be an Erf-shaking confirmation... but it might not be so simple. The only Titan-related timeline is when the narrator said that the Titan-related stuff "all happened while I was not-living." That might only mean the time before the narrator woke up; their dormant form could still have existed during the world-making.

    But your point still highlights a surprising breach. This narrator (the Pliers, presumably) already knows of a "she" after only having met the Minds. "She" is probably Wanda (needs help, thinks we can't affect the future, has hoarded Croakamancy). The Pliers are familiar with her, despite not having met her since awakening. Wouldn't that artifact remember the Titans who allegedly used it?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:31 am 
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    Cinder39134 wrote:
    In terms of the actual signamancy of the awakening as an event, I see the threads inside the pillar of Jed, behind Deisaac. They lead directly to his foot.

    Pretty sure it's just his "X-ray shadow" in the glowing light of the Pliers, projected onto the column's side.

    Another interesting thing: Big Think's current situation is said to be a direct result of "ending my not-life", i.e. awakening the Pliers. Seems like the instant it gained sentience it struck. That is... somewhat ominous. As a certain pineapple once said: "WHAT ELSE MIGHT IT WANT?!?!"

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:32 am 
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    The Towers are worried about some sort of consequence from stealing from the source. Are the Arkentools able to do whatever schmuckers do and "pay" for it, or does overusing Arkentools also have these mystery consequences? And do other magic items with active effects have upkeep or limited charges?

    Towers are automatically loyal to their owning side, are the Arkenpliers loyal to the people they are attuned to?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 326
     Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:36 am 
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    So it looks like what is left of the Great Minds attempted to get rid of the pliers it they got more then they bargained for. Now the question becomes what do the rest of the tools want?

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