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 Post subject: Book 3 - Page 111
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:49 am 
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:55 am 
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    Boy, nice job selling the power of the explosion there, having that push through the portal and all. Given the enclosed space she's in, that doesn't bode well for Lilith though...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:00 am 
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    And now for the money question...does that shrapnel count as a penalty on Charlie for bits of his portal room damaging Parson's group? Or is the GK treasury SOL on contractual compensation b/c Lilith initiated the explosion?

    My money is on Marie having stood in front of the portal on purpose (even though she may not have known what was coming through). She's clearly screening most of the GK party from the larger chunk of the damage. Hope she's OK.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:09 am 
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    So, if Marie croaks, do you think Parson would let Wanda decrypt her? Or is that one step too far in breaking the Em-Kay neutrality?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:24 am 
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    Well, we *were* wondering why she was carrying around that scroll...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:24 am 
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    Pro: Marie looks to have taken the brunt of the blast, leaving GK's forces unharmed.

    Con: Because only Marie got hurt, GK doesn't earn any punitive shmuckers.

    Pro: To the outside observer, it appears that Charlie just attacked into the Magic Kingdom. That has the potential to hurt him a great deal.

    Con: Maggie still isn't healed, and it seems like Marie could definitely be injured now as well. They only have one scroll, and it belongs to Marie. Could lead to a difficult choice.


    Chekhov's Archon: With that much force to the blast, we don't know if Lilith survived.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:32 am 
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    Healomancy scroll was for Marie I 'spose - as she probably predicted. But why stand there then? Maybe best use of "You will be incapacitated by an explosion today" prediction was to block the portal and ensure nobody could be injured worse than her - thus no "harder way" possible. Guessing it counts as a Lilith-caused or neutral-caused explosion, else why not rake in some coin from it. (This is assuming above prediction).

    Surprised Charlie's not positioning units to rake in the explosion effects too - he could at least have his 11 units in level 40 spread out blindly to get at least one wherever it'd blow, and with just one AAA veiled scout in the interstitial he could have had an 11-hitter. Guessing money doesn't even matter at this point to him though in comparison to his real plan to get Parson, or the signamancy's too mixed (neutral - Charlie's bomb or Lilith's rocket) for the contract to determine.

    But again... if Charlie could get a few more hits in he could own all the units around Parson - if not Parson himself. Why is that not the primary plan? Maybe it still is, and those 8 other units in level 40 got hit by the blast.

    Edit: Yeah alright, I think the only good conclusion to Charlie's and Marie's actions (not capitalizing on the blast for schmuckers but minimizing damage) was that the blast would be considered neutral/indeterminable by the automagical signamancy whether it was Charlie's bomb or Lilith's RPG and thus there'd be no advantage to take more hits (but Charlie would still want Lilith to take that shot in hopes of it blasting Parson & co in the MK). This is assuming Fate and Charlie are near omniscient as far as choosing the best plan, which I think is fair.


    Last edited by ruleno2 on Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:37 am 
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    The airlock may have contained the blast. Much of the blast seems to be trap-related (note the electrified chandeliers), and why design a trap to kill your own defenders as well as the intruders?

    Marie might be trying to die here. Perhaps she wishes to be free of the Deal of a Lifetime. Marie's comments about joining the group and needing upkeep may be in-jokes about her expectation that she will be raised by the 'Pliers.


    Last edited by DreadArchon on Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:38 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Pro: Marie looks to have taken the brunt of the blast, leaving GK's forces unharmed.

    Con: Because only Marie got hurt, GK doesn't earn any punitive shmuckers.


    Not necessarily. If Marie was stacked with GK units, according to the contract it would mean GK gets shmuckers. Thing is, we don't know if this counts as Charlie hurting someone by trap or not.

    Lipkin wrote:
    Pro: To the outside observer, it appears that Charlie just attacked into the Magic Kingdom. That has the potential to hurt him a great deal.

    Con: Maggie still isn't healed, and it seems like Marie could definitely be injured now as well. They only have one scroll, and it belongs to Marie. Could lead to a difficult choice.


    True, but there's no reason GK can't hire a healomancer while in the magic kingdom. They could even walk to hippies and get THEM to hire healomancer.
    Lipkin wrote:
    Chekhov's Archon: With that much force to the blast, we don't know if Lilith survived.


    Also, depending if this blast counts as triggering trap. I hope it does.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:45 am 
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    Quote:
    So, if Marie croaks, do you think Parson would let Wanda decrypt her? Or is that one step too far in breaking the Em-Kay neutrality?

    I bet he would want to get a decrypted predictamancer.

    He doesn't really respect the neutrality. He will abide by it if the MK MAKES him; like, if the predictamancers somehow get a hold of Marie's body, he's not going to fight them to get it.

    He also seems like an ask-forgiveness-rather-than-permission kind of guy. He'll decrypt Marie, and then if the MK gets pissed off he'll deal with it later. I mean, at the very least, he can set Decrypted Marie free from GK if he wants, and pull the "hey, I just gave her a new life, I'm just trying to be a generous guy! Look, she's a free caster now!"

    Quote:
    And now for the money question...does that shrapnel count as a penalty on Charlie for bits of his portal room damaging Parson's group? Or is the GK treasury SOL on contractual compensation b/c Lilith initiated the explosion?


    My guess is that this does not cause any truce breach on either side. I bet any damage to Charlie's things is not going to count as "material damage" (my guess - it doesn't count as "material" because it doesn't actually affect the functioning of any of Charlie's property, the city and portal and everything still work, and the hole in the floor doesn't count). It also looks like the explosion is mostly centered on the portal (which is probably indestructible) and, conveniently, all the defenses charlie has placed on the airlock will work fine and prevent anything outside it from getting damaged.

    I also don't think that the damage to Marie counts against Charlie; she's not a GK unit or agent. Doesn't look to me like anyone else was hit much, but even if they were, Lilith probably counts as the attacker...

    Quote:
    Healomancy scroll was for Marie I 'spose - as she probably predicted. But why stand there then?


    To protect Parson from the explosion.

    Quote:
    Maybe best use of "You will be incapacitated by an explosion today" prediction was to block the portal and ensure nobody could be injured worse than her - thus no "harder way" possible.


    If she had a Prediction she was acting off of, I bet it wasn't about her. It wasn't "You will be incapacitated by an explosion today", but more likely "Parson will be within range of an explosion today" (which gives her a chance to screen him.)

    Quote:
    Guessing it counts as a Lilith-caused or neutral-caused explosion, else why not rake in some coin from it. (This is assuming above prediction).


    Agree on that.

    Well, another reason not to rake in some coin is because Marie doesn't actually know about the terms of the cease-fire. She's not a GK unit anyway. She might have no idea that if Charlie harms a GK unit right now he has to pay up.

    Quote:
    Surprised Charlie's not positioning units to rake in the explosion effects too - he could at least have his 11 units in level 40 spread out blindly to get at least one wherever it'd blow, and with just one AAA veiled scout in the interstitial he could have had an 11-hitter. Guessing money doesn't even matter at this point to him though in comparison to his real plan to get Parson, or the signamancy's too mixed (neutral - Charlie's bomb or Lilith's rocket) for the contract to determine.

    But again... if Charlie could get a few more hits in he could own all the units around Parson - if not Parson himself. Why is that not the primary plan? Maybe it still is, and those 8 other units in level 40 got hit by the blast.


    I think Charlie had no idea that the Archon was going for the portal. Think about how it seems from his point of view. Lilith spends a little bit of time wandering aimlessly throughout the corridors. Finds some weapons, then escapes into the interstitial area. He has no idea that rather than try to ESCAPE up and out, she actually went DOWN to find his most heavily fortified area and try to break in to it! Based on his conversations, he expected Parson to charge through the Portal to save her, not Lilith to try to break down his portal room to... well, not even to escape (because she can't) but to pass stuff through it. He didn't even think of that.

    So he didn't realize that he could spread his units around to get one of them hit by a blast, because he wasn't expecting a blast from below at all.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:52 am 
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    Now my question is: why only one healing scroll? I'm already assuming Marie knew she'd take that hit. Does it croak her? It doesn't look like it should (no blast through the portal just rubble, saying "Eugh!" is usually not a sign of lethality). Was her prediction more complex: "Parson will have to choose to heal one person, and let another croak"?
    Oh - of course, she just won't even get incapacitated and the scroll's still for Maggie.

    Quote:
    I think Charlie had no idea that the Archon was going for the portal. Think about how it seems from his point of view. Lilith spends a little bit of time wandering aimlessly throughout the corridors. Finds some weapons, then escapes into the interstitial area. He has no idea that rather than try to ESCAPE up and out, she actually went DOWN to find his most heavily fortified area and try to break in to it! Based on his conversations, he expected Parson to charge through the Portal to save her, not Lilith to try to break down his portal room to... well, not even to escape (because she can't) but to pass stuff through it. He didn't even think of that.

    So he didn't realize that he could spread his units around to get one of them hit by a blast, because he wasn't expecting a blast from below at all.

    This is the same guy that knowingly put 3 of his top archons and himself in a room with Lilith as bait for "operation: Big Game Hunt" - all on the bet that Wanda would do something to free Lilith and he'd have a pawn to tempt Parson in. He has a plan here, and even if it's not going perfectly I think he'd be capable of a simple move like strategically positioning to take that blast if it suited him. (and he definitely has to know Lilith is going down not up - an archon saw her, even, and he prepped level 40).

    I also believe the "Parson has a hero complex death wish - he'll go in to save her" hasn't quite played out yet. I don't think it's Lilith he's off to save.

    Quote:
    Well, another reason not to rake in some coin is because Marie doesn't actually know about the terms of the cease-fire. She's not a GK unit anyway. She might have no idea that if Charlie harms a GK unit right now he has to pay up.


    "If [Charlie] comes at me through the portal - at least the treasury problem's solved" - think Marie could discern from that there might be an advantage to GK taking the hit, but it's counterintuitive so who knows - probably fair.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:30 am 
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    I just had to think of Korra. "Do the THING!" ^^

    But what a cliffhanger over the week-end. So many questions:
    1. Was Marie not able to Predict this or did she block the way on purpose so Parson wouldn't get too close? I mean, this DID happen shortly after she said that she didn't mind sacrifice.
    2. Who has to pay how much for the damage? Ultimately is was all because of Lilith, so I assume she's responsible for everything, including damage to GK troops, so Charlie probably claimed her the very moment the explosion started, and even if he's responsible for some collateral damage he can just pay the Shmuckers and keep Lilith. Therefore I assume the next page with be a tug-of-war between the dish and the pliers.
    3. Will Charlie fire his tripods now that he probably has Lilith? Or will he go back to carefully biding his time?
    4. Were the tripods already in the Portal room, and if they were, will they fire like the tripods from the Portal game do when they fall over, so Charlie will have to pay lots of money? I mean, even if they don't behave like the Portal ones, if their safety is released, some might still fire by landing on the wrong spot. And will the explosion surprise him enough that he fails to claim Lilith fast enough, so GK will be able to pay the damage to CC's portal room in Shmuckers?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:32 am 
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    youngstormlord wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    Pro: Marie looks to have taken the brunt of the blast, leaving GK's forces unharmed.

    Con: Because only Marie got hurt, GK doesn't earn any punitive shmuckers.


    Not necessarily. If Marie was stacked with GK units, according to the contract it would mean GK gets shmuckers. Thing is, we don't know if this counts as Charlie hurting someone by trap or not.

    Lipkin wrote:
    Pro: To the outside observer, it appears that Charlie just attacked into the Magic Kingdom. That has the potential to hurt him a great deal.

    Con: Maggie still isn't healed, and it seems like Marie could definitely be injured now as well. They only have one scroll, and it belongs to Marie. Could lead to a difficult choice.


    True, but there's no reason GK can't hire a healomancer while in the magic kingdom. They could even walk to hippies and get THEM to hire healomancer.
    Lipkin wrote:
    Chekhov's Archon: With that much force to the blast, we don't know if Lilith survived.


    Also, depending if this blast counts as triggering trap. I hope it does.

    Parson indicated that Marie going through the portal wouldn't cost them anything, so I'm assuming that her getting hit also doesn't trigger anything. There is also a very good reason they couldn't hire a Healomancer. GK is currently broke.

    As far as Lilith goes, it doesn't matter if this counts as triggering a trap or not. If she wasn't far enough away from the blast, the rpg she just fired could have dusted her.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:00 am 
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    Ooooooh dear, this is bad.

    It looks my Marie is taking the brunt yes, but Parson is getting hit too, which means Maggie too. And in some forms of Incapacitation, taking any additional damage means instant death....

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:18 am 
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    Am I the only person who noticed that Wanda is the only one not reacting to the explosion in the last panel? I'd say that is a good indication that Lillith survived the blast, otherwise Wanda would be reacting to seeing a vicarious dusting.

    Marie probably has internal injuries from the impact of the debris, and from the angles, it would have been Jack and Wanda getting hit with the fallout had Marie not been there. Jack could have been dusted, and Wanda could have lost her life. Then, no more decrypted. Marie was where Fate required her to be. As for who she intends the Healing Scroll be used on, there's no telling at this point. Let's see what the future holds.

    ...Heh.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:35 am 
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    Now the big question is if the explosion coming out of the portal is purely coming from the HEAT, or if it is augumented by traps. Hopefully this one will be answered on monday.


    Marie is standing in front on purpose though, as I suspected was a likely possibility after page 107. But I was expecting to see a lot more get hurt in the first swoop.

    If the explosion is trap agumented, and causes Charlescomm to breach, then the tripod assault just became that much more likely to happen. An M3-Tripod is mighty big for a Chekov's Gun though...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:37 am 
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    This one could go so many ways that speculating may be more painful than it is worth. :P

    Lilith has been doing damage to CC doors and other things with no penalty so far, so I don't see how this blast will be different. If it disabled the portal somehow, then maybe, but I doubt that.

    The blast in the portal room may (or may not) be contained, so she may not have hurt any CC units. She wasn't really attempting to either, which might help.

    I would lean towards thinking any damage attempts on GK units being Lilith's fault, so no breaches there. Her setting off CC traps in the process that do damage to GK are more iffy. Charlie and/or the archon seemed to think strongly enough that CC traps set off by Lilith would be a breach, that they sacrificed the archon to prevent it. You could even argue that Lilith used a CC weapon to cause the blast there, but it would be a weak argument. Who really knows though?

    *edits* Actually, after rereading it again, Charlie only seems concerned with keeping Lilith alive as bait. He may not believe her setting off traps would be a breach at all. Hard to tell either way right now.

    Moving on to Marie, I don't think she factors into the contract yet. If she had gone through by Parson's request, or was stacked with them, she probably would fit into the category of being an agent or unit of GK, but I'm not sure. I'm not even gonna guess what she predicted to make her be a body-shield there, if she even did. If it was me, and I only knew vaguely what might happen, I'd have all sorts of friends and others at a safe distance for damage control after it. It's the MK, so if a respected Predictamancer says something bad might happen soon there, the others would take it seriously and try to be ready for anything at least.

    Hopefully Lilith isn't too bad off. She was a fair distance away from the impact, but it is still a pretty confined space. Those things use shaped charges, so more damage in the direction it impacted, but there wasn't a lot of room down there. That doesn't factor in secondary explosions from things she blew up or set off either.

    What happens next? That depends on too many things really, like who got hurt, and if the contract starts passing stuff around. If GK just got a bunch of 5 mill chunks added to their treasury, Parson could waste most of it on a rescue plan. If not, I doubt he'd do something stupid. Recon through Lilith's eyes again to see if it is even worth trying for sure. CC won't be stupid either, but if Charlie did just lose a bunch, he may say screw it and finish what got started.

    Then there's the MK itself, and how they react. Also how this may have damaged CC's reputation, even before anything else happens. The next few updates should be even more interesting, but I think we expected that already. This powderkeg has been getting bigger every update, and it's starting to blow. :twisted:

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    Last edited by Gorgon on Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:44 am 
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    Knott wrote:
    An M3-Tripod is mighty big for a Chekov's Gun though...


    Dang it. now you've got me thinking of a Check-Off's Gun. A magic item guaranteed to go off if seen...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:45 am 
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    If Gobwin Knob DID just get 5 mil, and Lilith is dusted, Parson might be tempted to spend half that to go into the portal and get the guns.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 111
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:47 am 
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    Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 5:18 am
    Posts: 179
    I did get one thing answered from this update, at least with some certainty. The blast looks like it filled the portal room, but only appears to exit one side in the MK. Yay for answered questions! :D

    *edits* Didn't Chekov like phasers more? :P
    Sorry, couldn't resit with the typo there.

    _________________
    "God not only plays dice, he throws them in the corner where you can't see them."
    -- Stephen William Hawking (b. 1942) --


    Last edited by Gorgon on Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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