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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:43 pm 
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I can get behind both more intel (which we sorely need) and an actual turnamancer. Figuring it out with an easy prisoner is also probably a good idea.

Interesting that drawing juice would be more difficult with theatrics. Focused will to wield the tower, maybe? Might be worth looking into at some point. If nothing else, it might allow us to make our golems more intelligent (higher intuition, maybe, and probably better offense/defense scores from more precise styles)

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:05 am 
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    "(Hm, I'm a Dollamancer, and Turnamancy is also Spookism. I should be able to actually learn proper turnamancy if I put my mind to it.)" Erfman mutters audibly while pondering. "And that should be even easier with a tutor." he continues in a louder voice.

    "Okay, with the latest additions by Rey, we now have 14 rands that we can put to use." speaking to his audience. "Dotti, I think our main priorities for today are Lookamancy towards Fanfic, and Turnamancy of our prisoners. Do you know how much an Eyemancer that can Look would charge for his entire Juice pool for the day? We have at minimum 7 hexes to lightly Look (these in red), and 3 to Deep Look (in pink), but there is much more to Look if we have the resources." says he pointing towards the map. "If not, would you find out for us? And also check on a price of a Turnamancer willing to tutor us, perhaps cast in tandem with us as we learn? We have 16 units to turn as of now." he finishes.


    ”I actually have a Lookamacer contact” Dotti replies with a smile. ”Her name is Bea and I believe she recently levelled up to level three” Dotti adds as she begins to rummage through her pockets before suddenly pulling out a piece of parchment. ”Here we go her price list!” she declares as she lays it on the table.

    Quote:
    Mapping scan of 10 hexes - 3 rands or 450s
    In-depth scan of 4 hexes (non concealed units identified) - 3 rands or 450s
    Deep scan of 1 hex (including concealed units) - 3 rands or 450s

    (range of scan depends on level of city tower the scan is performed at)


    ”I believe each listed item costs her 100 juice so she would be able to cast three if she has not already spent any of her juice this turn.” Dotti explains.

    ”As for a Turnamancer I have one in mind but he is a little expensive... I would have to go and negotiate with him in person...” Dotti adds.

    "Rey, now that I really thought on it, it's way more reasonable to wait for a tutor before attempting to turn the Warlord. Given our NDA, my house is now your house" Erfman smiles affably "you are welcome to stick around, and look around, while we wait for Dotti, to then cast for us. But if you'd rather not wait, we won't begrudge you putting the rest of your juice in our tower and going home for the turn." Erfman continues.

    ”I’m in no hurry, you have already paid for all my juice so I’m happy to hang around...” Rey replies with a slight shrug of her shoulders.

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:55 am 
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    "That is most useful Dotti!" he happily exclaims
    Then pondering the list, cupping his chin "Hmm, I think when we do Look we'll have to devote 9 Rands for Bea, for three Deep Scans on the Obelisk, Fanfic and Farm (to get a more accurate estimate of number of Spooks and troops around), but that would leave you only 5 rands to negotiate with your Turnamancer contact for this turn."

    "Instead, we'll let Lookamancy for next turn and focus this turn on learning and turning prisoners.
    So, given we wish for tutoring, we expect it to take more than one turn. Use that if you fell it is advantageous."
    he states with confidence in her skills
    "Would you pen one more NDAs with Juice from the tower and then go negotiate with the Turnamancer for his services?" finishes Erfman.

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    Last edited by WurmD on Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:06 am 
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    I think all we need is the city even if the obilisk was clear we dont have the move to get their and we would have to rescan it when we are in a position to strike. Vote 3 rand for city scan

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     Post Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:22 am 
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    K, edited my post. No Looking for today then

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     Post Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:25 am 
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    Doh! Just wrote a response which I’ve had to delete as I see you’ve edited your post!

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     Post Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:44 am 
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    "That is most useful Dotti!" Erfman happily exclaims. Then as he ponders the list Erfman cups his chin. "Hmm, I think when we do Look we'll have to devote 9 Rands for Bea, for three Deep Scans on the Obelisk, Fanfic and Farm (to get a more accurate estimate of number of Spooks and troops around), but that would leave you only 5 rands to negotiate with your Turnamancer contact for this turn."

    "Instead, we'll leave Lookamancy for next turn and focus this turn on learning and turning prisoners.
    So, given we wish for tutoring, we expect it to take more than one turn. Use that if you feel it is advantageous."
    Erfman states with confidence in her skills.

    "Would you pen one more NDA with Juice from the tower and then go negotiate with the Turnamancer for his services?" finishes Erfman.

    ”Ofcourse” Dotti replies with a smile before hurrying off and using the last of her juice and some juice from the tower to create two new non disclosure contracts.

    ( Dotti 0/200 Juice, Tower 155/200 juice)

    ”Sire, if you could sign this in advance I will get the Turnamancer to sign it before sending them through the portal...” Dotti declares as she hands the contract over.

    A short while later Erfman feels another request for a non aggression pact from a caster by the name of William Spinner.

    Once Erfman accepts the pact the portal ripples as a caster steps through. A dark haired man in a black suit strides confidently forward before bowing deeply in Erfman’s direction. ”You’re highness, I am Sir William Spinner it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance” he declares as he straightens back up. At the same time Dotti steps through the portal and steps to the side.

    ”The good Lady Dotti informs me you are looking for an education” William declares. ”How may I help you in this endeavour. What is it that you wish to learn?” William then questions.

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     Post Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:09 am 
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    "Thank you for coming Sir William" says Erfman quietly pleased with a curt nod.
    "I have managed to convince a Warlord to turn just through conversation before, but now that I have 14 infantry, 1 knight and another warlord in my dungeons, I'd like to learn how to apply Juice to the turning process." he proceeds in a succinct manner

    "Everything you say is protected by our NDA. Would you instruct us in the basic theory of Turnamancy, and help us learn at least one spell?" he inquires

    "I've heard casting in tandem is an effective way to learn a new spell, but we defer to your expertise on how to go about it." He finishes in a pondered fashion

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     Post Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:15 am 
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    "Thank you for coming Sir William" says Erfman quietly pleased with a curt nod.

    ”It’s a pleasure” William replies with a polite smile.


    "I have managed to convince a Warlord to turn just through conversation before, but now that I have 14 infantry, 1 knight and another warlord in my dungeons, I'd like to learn how to apply Juice to the turning process." Erfman proceeds in a succinct manner

    "Everything you say is protected by our NDA. Would you instruct us in the basic theory of Turnamancy, and help us learn at least one spell?" Erfman inquires

    "I've heard casting in tandem is an effective way to learn a new spell, but we defer to your expertise on how to go about it." Erfman finishes in a pondered fashion.

    ”So you wish to learn the secrets of Turnamancy...” William begins. ”To expand one’s repertoire of skills is a worthy goal but if I were to teach you I would be depriving myself of a potential long term client...” William continues as he strokes his chin. ”I would ofcourse still like to help you my friend but the loss of future earnings will have to be factored in to the price...” William adds.

    ”Now one of the best known abilities of a Turnamancer is the ability to turn prisoners and it is indeed one of the pillars of the art. I believe this is what you wish to learn yes?” William continues. ”For the knowledge of how to cast this spell I would charge you a mere 6 rands...” William begins before pausing. ”However time and juice are also money... each turn you require my consultation will cost a minimum of two rands and each time I am required to cast will cost an additional rand... “ William continues. ”Are these terms agreeable?” the Turnamancer then questions.

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     Post Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:23 am 
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    (I'm not sure I understood those terms, but they seem very agreeable yes?)

    "So 6 Rands today for teaching, and in the future 3 Rands for casting, or 2 Rands for questions? That seems very reasonable." Erfman nods decisively

    "And I wouldn't be too concerned about loss of revenue. Juice limit is the great equaliser, and I'll expect a master like you to always be more efficient and effective with the same Juice than a novice like I aim to be. So, whenever I am working on my Golems and have prisoners, you expect to receive a call" Erfman smiles with the knowledge of doing and offering good business

    "Here" *transfers 6 Rands* "and let us begin."

    (pause to let him speak)

    "I am academically curious about Turnamamcy senses; those that I shall never have, what do they reveal to of the world to a proper Turnamancer?"

    (after he replies)

    "How hard is it to turn a unit such as a Warlord? (is it harder than an Infantry?) How many castings does it usually take you, an experienced Turnamancer, to break down such a unit's defenses?"

    (wait for reply)

    "I asked because we have Rey here," Erfman says gesturing to the Luckamancer "who is a Luckamancer that we hired to boost such a turnamancy attempt, if it usually took more than one attempt, then Luckamancy use would be warranted" complements Erfman

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:26 pm 
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    (They May have been intentionally confusing...)

    "So 6 Rands today for teaching, and in the future 3 Rands for casting, or 2 Rands for questions? That seems very reasonable." Erfman nods decisively.

    ”Yes ofcourse quite reasonable, quite reasonable indeed!” William replies. ”But inorder to avoid confusion I fear I must clarify... for six rands I will share with you the details of the spell... however if you require me to cast in order to help you learn the spell that will cost an additional 1 rand per casting. “ William explains. ”And If you require my assistance to learn the spell over future turns my consultancy will cost two rands plus 1 rand per spell I am required to cast to help you learn the spell...” William continues.

    "And I wouldn't be too concerned about loss of revenue. Juice limit is the great equaliser, and I'll expect a master like you to always be more efficient and effective with the same Juice than a novice like I aim to be. So, whenever I am working on my Golems and have prisoners, you expect to receive a call" Erfman smiles with the knowledge of doing and offering good business.

    ”Your too kind but I am not master of Turnamancy... we’ll not yet atleast...” William replies.

    "Here" Erfman then declares as he transfers 6 Rands."and let us begin." Erfman then declares.

    ”Well as you may be aware Turnamancy is all about movement but unlike dollamancy it does not focus on the movement of mere objects, no Turnamancy can move the intangible such as motivations and loyalty. “ William begins.

    "I am academically curious about Turnamamcy senses; those that I shall never have, what do they reveal to of the world to a proper Turnamancer?" Erfman questions.

    ”Now that is a hard one... how do you describe to a man with no tongue what taste is like? How do you describe the colour blue to a man that can not see...” William continues.


    "How hard is it to turn a unit such as a Warlord? (is it harder than an Infantry?) How many castings does it usually take you, an experienced Turnamancer, to break down such a unit's defenses?" Erfman asks.

    ”Well it all depends on the loyalty of a unit but to simplify matters as a general rule basic infantry are the easiest to turn, knight class units are more difficult and command units even more difficult still. The greatest challenge however is provided by certain casters, heirs and rulers” William explains. ”Now as for a Warlord as I have already stated it depends on their loyalty but on average it could take up to as many as four castings of the basic Turnamancy spell” William adds after some thought.

    "I asked because we have Rey here," Erfman says gesturing to the Luckamancer "who is a Luckamancer that we hired to boost such a turnamancy attempt, if it usually took more than one attempt, then Luckamancy use would be warranted" complements Erfman.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:26 pm 
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    "Onward to the practical details? Would you detail the basic Turnamancy spell? (particularly its Juice cost)"


    (after)

    "I think, if you don't disagree, that our first practical lesson could be one by example. Would you show us how it's done, by casting on the warlord prisoner?"

    "Dotti here has analysed his Signamancy while he interacted with others and has inferred that he seems to be proud, stubborn and aggressive and overly confident in his own abilities. His key motivators seemed to be fear and power. So to gain his obedience I would likely need to prove that we are the more powerful one, or offer to increase his power."

    "I had thought to shock-and-awe him by manhandling him with my Golems, that obey to me alone, and offer him magical gear that I can produce if he would turn, but now that you are to have central stage, we defer to your expertise"

    (If he accepts)

    "Here" *transfer 1 Rand* "and Rey, would you boost Caster William's attempt?"

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    Last edited by WurmD on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:32 pm 
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    (that looks almost exactly like my read on the costs. Glad to be on the right track for once)

    I'm good with that. Seeing the 'mancer work and letting the experienced unit do the casting knowing what buttons to press is good. I'm worried the whole "personal loyalty to the dark one" thing might make it hard, but hey, we'll learn a lot.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:42 am 
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    +1

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:19 pm 
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    "Onward to the practical details? Would you detail the basic Turnamancy spell? (particularly its Juice cost)" Erfman asks.

    ”Ofcourse, please let me explain...” William replies before going in to the details of the spell and explaining how it works.

    Quote:
    Turn prisoner
    Class: Turnamancy
    Juice: 25
    Range: close
    Casting time: 5 rounds

    On a successful turning attempt reduce units loyalty (to current side) by caster level x 10. When loyalty reaches 0 unit turns. (Prisoners may resist turning attempts and on an unsuccessful turning attempt loyalty remains unchanged. )


    "I think, if you don't disagree, that our first practical lesson could be one by example. Would you show us how it's done, by casting on the warlord prisoner?"
    Erfman then requests.

    "Dotti here has analysed his Signamancy while he interacted with others and has inferred that he seems to be proud, stubborn and aggressive and overly confident in his own abilities. His key motivators seemed to be fear and power. So to gain his obedience I would likely need to prove that we are the more powerful one, or offer to increase his power." Erfman relays.

    "I had thought to shock-and-awe him by manhandling him with my Golems, that obey to me alone, and offer him magical gear that I can produce if he would turn, but now that you are to have central stage, we defer to your expertise" Erfman finishes.

    ”Hmmm yes such mundane Turnamancy might have worked on some units however juice allows me to work a little differently... William replies.


    "Here and Rey, would you boost Caster William's attempt?"
    Erfman asks as he transfers another rand to William.

    ”Oh ofcourse!” Rey replies happily as she prepares to cast at the most opportune time.

    William then makes his way in to the cell, he doesn’t say anything but silently begins to circle the prisoner. Strife doesn’t say anything either but once again tests the strength of his restraints but his shackles hold firm.

    After a couple of minutes of silent circling Strife begins to grow agitated and begins to fidget and struggle.

    ”What are you doing back there? That cowardly king sent you to stab me in the back rather than face me himself?” Strife growls. William does not respond but lingers behind Strife where the prisoner can’t quite see him. ”Answer me dammit!” Strife then barks. William however suddenly bursts in to action thrusting one arm forwards as he slams his palm on to the back of the prisoners head. Strife’s eyes go wide and slightly dazed looking before he begins to thrash about.

    ”Stubborn but by no means the most difficult challenge I have faced” William declares as a look of concentration spreads across his face. At the same time Rey from her position outside the cell completes her spell.

    Strife’s head then slumps forwards and William pulls back his hand. ”I’ll be seeing you soon...” he then declares before calmly walking out of the cell.

    ”Demonstration complete...” William then declares as he brushes off his suit. ”I have made progress but the Warlord is not quite ready to turn just yet...” he then adds.

    ”Now that you have seen how it works, would you like to make an attempt of your own? Perhaps in tandem or on an easier unit?” William then questions.

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    Last edited by wiz on Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:34 pm 
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    Upon the spell description Erfman would ask for clarification:
    "Huh, what a curious thing, by your explanation Caster William, the only random element to a turning attempt (that could in turn be boosted by Luckamancy) is in the resist attempt check. Hm" he muses "I wonder if there is a critical success bonus.. Did it ever occur to encounter a prisoner that from your initial examination seemed like he should have high loyalty, and thus be a particularly difficult nut to crack, but then you succeeded in turning him at your first attempt?" he asks with curious but serious eyes

    Would you edit that in?

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:21 am 
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    Hmmm thought duty to a side would be turnamancy and loyalty would be dateamancy.


    caster william what would be a normal loyalty level for a unit are we looking at something in the 200 range or more like 50? What about if the spell was used on a baebarian? Also when we learn this spell would our caster level count since we are not even a novice in turnamancy?

    I will trust you judgement on how juice should be spent for teaching mr william, but I was hoping to have strife turned this turn. So any chance we can focus on that?

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:32 am 
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    cypermancer wrote:
    "Also, Caster William, what would be a normal loyalty level for a unit? Are we looking at something in the 200 range or more like 50?" Erfman inquires curious

    "What if the spell was used on a barbarian? Have you had to do so in the past?"

    "Finally, when we learn this spell would our caster level even count? (since we are not even a novice in turnamancy)"



    "I will trust you judgement on how our Juice should be spent during our education Mr. William, but I was hoping to have Strife turned this turn. Is there any chance we can focus on that? he finishes
    +1 to that

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:19 am 
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    Definitely work the warlord over first. Now that we know the basic principals we could start working on the easier targets later. If there's juice left, it would be nice to have the instruction, but picking it up won't be impossible

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:01 pm 
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    "Huh, what a curious thing, by your explanation Caster William, the only random element to a turning attempt (that could in turn be boosted by Luckamancy) is in the resist attempt check. Hm" Erfman muses "I wonder if there is a critical success bonus.. Did it ever occur to encounter a prisoner that from your initial examination seemed like he should have high loyalty, and thus be a particularly difficult nut to crack, but then you succeeded in turning him at your first attempt?" Erfman asks with curious but serious eyes.

    ”I prefer to think of it as a result of one’s skill rather than a random act of chance but yes a turning attempt can fail or be resisted by the subject” William replies. ”Well ofcourse Turnamancy is subject to critical successes just like anything else and unfortunately critical failures aswell...” William adds.

    "Also, Caster William, what would be a normal loyalty level for a unit? Are we looking at something in the 200 range or more like 50?" Erfman inquires curious.

    ”Well it ofcourse can vary from unit to unit but if I were to pluck a number out of my head basic infantry on average often have a loyalty of around 50, Knights are often twice that and command units atleast twice that again.” William replies.

    "What if the spell was used on a barbarian? Have you had to do so in the past?" Erfman then asks.

    ”Ah yes barbarians an interesting question, an interesting question indeed. What people often don’t realise is barbarians have loyalty just like anyone else. A barbarian popped with a command unit often have loyalty to their commander equal to that of a side. A barbarian without a commander (and yes there are certain circumstances where that can occur) have loyalty only to themselves. They often have much lower loyalty values often less than half of a sided unit” William explains.

    "Finally, when we learn this spell would our caster level even count? (since we are not even a novice in turnamancy)" Erfman questions.

    ”A true Turnamancer counts as twice their actual level for this spell. A non Turnamancer I believe would expend twice the amount of juice and their level would not be doubled.” Erfman answers.


    ”I will trust your judgement on how our Juice should be spent during our education Mr. William, but I was hoping to have Strife turned this turn. Is there any chance we can focus on that?” Erfman finishes


    ”Why ofcourse I suggest we tandem cast or the Warlord and turn him together” William replies. ”As per my terms however that will cost you one rand per casting that I have to make” William adds.

    (How many attempts are you willing to make? / How much juice are you willing to use?)

    _________________
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