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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:39 am 
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canterrain wrote:
I am entirely certain that there is only one single reasonable and logical reaction to today's page.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:40 am 
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    Ok, let me add to the "out there" speculation about Marie.

    It sure does look like she's simply croaked. But that might be a dusting effect starting up in that last panel.

    So, let me propose a crazy idea.

    A. We don't know how old Marie is.
    B. We don't know that she popped in Faq.
    C. We don't know her history (or much of it) prior to the popping of Jillian

    What if . . . she is actually a decrypted unit produced from a previous wielder of the pliers?


    dun dun DUN!!!!!!!!


    When I say "previous wielder" I mean waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. Before Jetstone got their hands on them.

    She could be from one of the original sides of erfworld.


    Do I think any of this is likely? No.
    Is it possible? Until the next page/we see her body persist, yes.
    If true does it raise a ridiculous number of questions? YES ;)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:40 am 
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    I got the impression that Bonnie was looking to suggest alternative actions to Artemis' militant tactics. Perhaps she was going to suggest getting a hold of the tripods or even using thinkagrams to try to diffuse the situation [after all, she was brought up on Charlie's Rulebook].

    Anyway, the real question is- where the hell is Janis when you need a Deus Pax Macina? Or surely Isaac would have at least become aware of this by now?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:40 am 
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    vivalakevolution wrote:
    canterrain wrote:
    I am entirely certain that there is only one single reasonable and logical reaction to today's page.

    Spoiler: show
    Attachment:
    darth-vader-nooooo.jpg



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    Tis.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:42 am 
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    Great update! I love the way Beans are carrying Wanda to (relative) safety. Everything is dynamic and well paced. I like the way Parson runs, miraculously avoiding magic missiles, even as he tumbles and eats grass.

    Shame about Marie. She is by no means dusted, she's burned. Poor Maggie and Jack, Parson should get away from them as fast as possible, as for fate they are his spare health points now.

    As for going Rambo, I'd say he could give it a try, him being the -how did Charlie put it? "Fate's best piece?". However, I'd still prefer him to cast some hippiemancy, perhaps somewhere in the lines proposed by Pete here.

    Suddenly, I hope they won't retreat through any of the portals. That would leave Artemis and Downer to dust...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:44 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Spades Suit Pip Hearts Suit Pip
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    sotris wrote:
    I wonder what alternative strategy Bonnie was going to suggest to Artemis. Distract, perhaps? We have indications that casters are quite susceptible to that.


    Bonnie could have enacted a Thinkagram to the Tool, or to Isaac, or to Janis.

    elkhantar wrote:
    Fuck i loved Marie's character... I really hope Parson gets that gun firing and puts some lead into the damn Shockamancer that did her in.


    Not a Shockmancer, pretty sure. A Shockmancer would not be limited to bolts. He'd be doing area effect spells, like Fireball.

    And those magic bolts don't look anything like the Hobokens Maggie and Sean Mattox have cast. Resemble much more the pew from the royal scepter of Jetstone.

    I hypothesize that, with some exceptions, most middle class (economics-wise) barbarian casters buy wands and staves for personal defense.

    Barbarian Thinkamancers don't buy them because their Thinkamancy is superior for defense.
    Barbarian Hippiemancers don't buy them because of their ethos.
    Barbarian Predictamancers and Carnymancers don't buy them because they're too poor.

    Most everyone else would get one, though.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:46 am 
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    khamul wrote:
    Why does Parson need a gun?

    If Spacerock has taught him anything, it should be that he is not most valuable as a frontline combat unit. It has all fallen apart. It is time for someone to Be Clever.

    Why does Parson need a gun to Be Clever?

    ---

    Also, bye-bye Marie. I'll miss you.

    No Fate bubble on Parson, but he still trips and the killing shot misses him?

    When did he become able to say 'shit' rather than 'boop'?

    And agree with the speculation above: a good author knows when the time has come to taken away the protagonist's supports, and show how they stand without them. And plans it well in advance. Whether that is what is happening here: it sure looks like it, but I personally would not make that bet...

    Parson knows that Jojo is in charge of the attack, and he knows how to win at carnival games. Don't play the game that the carny wants you to play, and expect that he has a different game that he plays with people too clever for their own good.

    Jojo wants to play "do you fight the free casters or let them attack unopposed" with "try to reason with them" as the too-clever game.

    I expect that Parson is or should be playing Bullet Tag with Charlie. That sounds like a game that Jojo doesn't want him to play.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:48 am 
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    Marie has been Dusted... That's not her face being burnt off. The face lesions in the final panel don't match where she was hit by the beam in the previous panel. This is a Decrypted body disintegrating after taking lethal damage.

    So if someone Decrypted her...

    It wasn't Wanda, or Wanda wouldn't have had to ask for Marie's help in this battle. She would have simply ordered it...

    1. So who was the previous Attuned user of the Pliers?
    2. Are they still alive?
    3. Was Marie still under their control, or was she freed after they either Croaked or lost the Arkenpliers?
    4. Was she a Decrypted unit while Charlie was operating on her mind in Book 0?
    5. If she Decrypted later, why wasn't she released from the Deal of a Lifetime upon Croaking, as Jack was?

    THIS IS JUST OMG MIND IS SPINNING ERFWORLD YOU ARE SO GREAT!

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    Last edited by happyturtle on Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:50 am 
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    So, seems like the MK population is going for the kill. I can't blame them. Team GK was getting pretty dangerous, and spilling their war over MK's neutrality. If they wanted to stop Hamster, now was the time. When Maggie is out of juice, when there's only an handful of decrypted, when team GK were least expecting it, the most vulnerable.

    Seems like jumping through Charlie's portal is pretty much the only viable plan left. Since Charlie's competence has dropped like abysmatically, Hamster can probably conquer the place with his eyes closed.

    But where are the other predictmancers? And thinkmancers?

    Interesting effect on Marie's death. No flesh under her skin, only ash. That raises quite a lot of questions. Did Wanda use some kind of magic to preserve her body while searching for the arkenpliers? Was Marie killed in the MK and Wanda raised her?

    Also yay, Count Downer is still up!
    ...
    Wait, non-caster decrypted can't go through portals. Count Downer, Artemis and the others will have to be abandoned. Well, it was nice knowing you.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:58 am 
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    Where are the hippies when you need them? I know Jojo is likely avoiding the hippimancer's glade, but I feel like some casters might have wanted to bring along someone who can actually stop the fighting. Marie also probably should have informed the hippies about this before coming over too; that they haven't shown up yet though makes me think she somehow didn't think to do so.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:04 am 
    Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Spades Suit Pip Clubs Suit Pip Won Mine4erf for the Marbits
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    Thecommander236 wrote:
    khamul wrote:
    Why does Parson need a gun?


    Is this a trick question? Even medics in World War II had guns, that didn't mean they were frontline soldiers. (My grandpa was a Navy medic who worked off the front lines, he never had to use said gun, because the lines were never that far overrun, I suppose). Plus, Parson IS on the frontline and SOMEONE needs to lay down suppressing fire, maybe even kill a rioting caster or two. That's being clever. You going to tell me that Parson never needs a sword, he can needs to "be clever". That is not how it works, sweetheart. Sometimes you need to kill a fool.

    "Why does he need a gun?" Jesus...


    Eh, you misunderstand. I'm not saying 'Parson should be able to solve it with rainbows'. The guy held the Sword Of Ruthlessness: clearly, there is no major problem in him using Deathstuff[TM] when it is appropriate.

    But while the number of problems you can solve using force alone is directly proportional to the amount of force you have available, intelligence is a multiplier.

    I speculate that Parson has a plan. He states he needs a gun.
    There are plenty of other people trying to put hot bits of lead into the unfriendly guys, and they're all better at it than Parson is - and they are in a... what's the term for what I would politely describe as a flustercluck? ... ah yes, a 'target-rich environment', that's right.

    One extra gun in inept hands is not going to turn the tables here.

    Maybe he doesn't have a plan, and he's just doing the best he can to aid the side: but if he does have some Clever Stuff to do, *how* is a gun instrumental in him achieving it?

    "Why does he need a gun" = "What does his choice of tool tell us about his plan or objective", not "why would a gun be useful in this situation?". The latter... I assumed to be obvious. I forget how the internet works, sometimes. :oops:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:05 am 
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    Crisis21 wrote:
    To everyone who said GK needed to lose a named character so this fight could feel like it had real stakes: I hope you're happy with yourselves.


    No, I´m not happy. Not yet, at least. Marie can be decrypted. I will be happy if we lose Jack or even Maggie. If Parson allows Wanda to decrypt her, it will be very interesting.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:08 am 
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    Okay, seriously, you guys are insane. Marie is not decrypted. At all. Ever. She got burnt by the boot. We've seen dozens of people get dusted and she didn't immediately "zorch" which means she can't be dusted. She has the X eyes which is a specific indicator for being croaked. We have, as far as I know, never seen any of the decrypted with X eyes before they fell to dust. Those are obviously ashes and NOT dust. Every other decrypt who has been gotten in the face instantly was blasted into dust. We just saw that with Bean Stark. This couldn't be more clear unless there was a sign saying "hi, I'm croaked" coming out of her mouth.

    Get over it. You people and you're wacky theories.

    khamul wrote:
    I speculate that Parson has a plan. He states he needs a gun.
    There are plenty of other people trying to put hot bits of lead into the unfriendly guys-


    No, he needs a gun because he's in a war zone. Not everything is some big, highly complex plan that us mere mortals can't possibly understand. Remember Spacerock?

    You guys really need to look up Occam's Razor. You are making this much more complicated than it is.

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    Last edited by Thecommander236 on Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:10 am 
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    Galdon wrote:
    Where are the hippies when you need them? (...)


    That's easy, Roger Victor Clarence invited them all to the Temple to discuss issues of peace on Erf, over a keg or two of Erfbrew. By now them and most of the Minds are drunk like marbits during the marbitgrass festival, singing happy songs and hugging each other, while Roger is silently watching the display of fireworks over the Portal Park... and rising a toast in memory of the good Queen Bea.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:10 am 
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    As some one else pointed out earlier. Artemis really does seem like she has a similar leadership approach to Bonnie. A single obsession with certain battle tactics while ignoring everything else. She should not be in charge here. She can not adapt to unconventional military tactics, which is all you will get against Charlie or the magic kingdom.

    Artemis certainly shouldn't be ordering Archons around, as she doesn't know what they can actually do. Things would have been best if they were left to their own initiative, and just ordered to act. For one, I don't think Bonnie has foolamancy. She can't veil herself. And Sandy earlier just double shot two shockmancy resistant archons. She might not have juice left to veil. Bonnie was probably suggesting the tripods. It is the way she thinks and it is something her skills are best able to organize.

    Parson needs to be put back in charge. Soon.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:13 am 
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    OK - first post in a long time. Did anybody else note the weirdness of the angle of the bolt knocking out Marie? Looks like it was coming in from a MUCH higher angle than one would expect. Is there a flying Mancer with a staff getting involved in this battle?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:13 am 
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    AJ Impy wrote:
    So, tactical situation. Artemis is in charge, doesn't know how to maximise the utility of those under her command. Downer still up. Jack, Maggie and Wanda incapacitated. Marie croaked. Very few stabbers, archers and riflers left. RhymeBean and Shock?Bean retrieving Wanda.

    Objectives: Preserve Wanda. Preserve Parson. Preserve as many casters as possible. Preserve as many Archons as possible. Preserve as many Warlords as possible. Preserve as many other units as possible.

    Options:
    Fight. Surrounded, opponents have lethal shockamancy, and more casters using it than Gobwin Knob has remaining units. Marie is most likely correct: Winning this battle is not in the cards.

    Run.
    Possibilities:
    Attempted overland breakout towards Gobwin Knob portal. Difficult with the incapacitated and corpses.
    Airlift via veiled Archons, possible but limited carrying capacity, chance of busted veils.
    Charlescomm portal. Out of the frying pan, into the very expensive fire. Less people shooting. Charlescomm beset with comms difficulties, very hostile territory.

    Parley.
    Possibilities:
    Surrender. To whom? Would it be accepted? Would surrendering to Barbarians render them prisoners?
    Truce/ceasefire. With whom? Would it be accepted?

    Third Party intervention.
    Whose side would the Unpainted be on? Could the Hippiemancers enforce peace? Could the Thinkamancers or Predictamancers get involved?

    I suspect to make progress, Artemis would need to croak, and unless Parson outlevels Downer, him too.


    One more possibilitie:
    Reinforcements: There are a lot of GK´s forces camped arpound the Thinkamancer´s Temple.
    Both Artemis and Downer are Warlords and the all the Magic Kingdom is one hexe. Are they able to order all the remaining GK´s forces in the Magic Kingdom to the Portal Park? A Warlord does not have natural thinkamancy that crosses borders, but I bet they have in the same hex.

    More so: All the remaining forces of GK are unled infantry. They *must* engage all the hostiles in the same hex.

    Alternativelly, if the other GK allies alert those forces, they will be duty-compelled to join the fight.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:15 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Spades Suit Pip Hearts Suit Pip
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    khamul wrote:
    I speculate that Parson has a plan. He states he needs a gun.


    Maybe he'll threaten to commit suicide, to try to coerce Fate into saving his troops.

    Or maybe he'll shoot Artemis and Downer to regain command.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:16 am 
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    Thecommander236 wrote:
    Okay, seriously, you guys are insane. Marie is not decrypted. At all. Ever. She got burnt by the boot. We've seen dozens of people get dusted and she didn't immediately "zorch" which means she can't be dusted. She has the X eyes which is a specific indicator for being croaked. We have, as far as I know, never seen any of the decrypted with X eyes before they fell to dust. Those are obviously ashes and NOT dust. Every other decrypt who has been gotten in the face instantly was blasted into dust. We just saw that with Bean Stark. This couldn't be more clear unless there was a sign saying "hi, I'm croaked" coming out of her mouth.

    Get over it. You people and you're wacky theories.


    A. You could be significantly nicer in your dismissal of our wacky theories.

    B. The point of wacky theories is to be WACKY. :) I'll be the first to admit the chance of mine being right to be less that 0.0001% But that doesn't make it any less fun to imagine the possibilities.


    In any case, I agree in principle. The most likely status of Marie is croaked.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 134
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:18 am 
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    That was not a faceplant, that was a perfect warlord dashing dance-fight move. Take that, Erfworld! Now prepare for the Star Wars Kid routine.

    Marie was not shot, her brain exploded. Too much Predictamancy does that to you, Fate doesn't like a snitch.


    oslecamo2 temp wrote:
    Also yay, Count Downer is still up!


    Uh oh, you shouldn't have said that. :shock:

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