Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Book 5 - Prologue 21
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:11 pm 
This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool This user is a member of Team Erfworld IRC Quote of the Moment Here for the 10th Anniversary Mined 4 Erf
Offline
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:41 am
Posts: 4750
New One is up.

We're continuing to experiment with art techniques, and continuing to do the best we can under current circumstances.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:33 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Hearts Suit Pip Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Diamonds Suit Pip
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:34 pm
    Posts: 250
    These last few pieces of art are simply surprising. When you announced the new art direction, I expected more like the city of Generica, where the influence of computer modeling was obvious (though not incongruous). This, however, almost looks hand-drawn and hand-painted. Not a complaint. I like surprises.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:50 pm 
    This user is a Tool! Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Has collected at least one unit Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Clubs Suit Pip Diamonds Suit Pip
    Offline
    Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 10:59 pm
    Posts: 25
    Titan wrote:
    New One is up.

    We're continuing to experiment with art techniques, and continuing to do the best we can under current circumstances.



    Glad to see, and it's very much appreciated by fans!

  • Tipped by 4 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:56 pm 
    User avatar
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Arkenhammer Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 pm
    Posts: 1161
    Looks ok? Can't really say without seeing her face, since that's the part that bothered people the most last update.

    _________________
    “I will tell you precisely what Royalty is,” said Intra, “It is a continuous cutting motion.”

    -The Song of Maybe

  • Tipped by 2 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:05 pm 
    User avatar
    This user is a Tool! IRC Quote of the Moment Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Clubs Suit Pip For when you need it most Diamonds Suit Pip Shiny Red Star Hearts Suit Pip Spades Suit Pip Erfmover Supporter Arkenhammer Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:53 am
    Posts: 652
    Titan wrote:
    New One is up.

    We're continuing to experiment with art techniques, and continuing to do the best we can under current circumstances.


    You do what you need to do. I think its a good idea to experiment in the prologue, I might be well to have a finalised (or mostly finalised) style for the whole of Book 5 (if possible) since style changes in a book can be a bit jarring (at least for me).


    As for the update text, from a tactical perspective, choosing to act like a book Heroine is not the wisest course of action... Boring keeps you alive.

    _________________
    my very own Self Insert Fan Fiction
    Yet Another Self Insert Fan Fiction
    The Fan fiction which made mine possible by TomaO2:
    The Imperfect Warlord
    Avatar by Noip. Thanks again for that!

  • Tipped by 3 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:14 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Clubs Suit Pip
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:22 pm
    Posts: 7
    Titan wrote:
    New One is up.

    We're continuing to experiment with art techniques, and continuing to do the best we can under current circumstances.

    And new story-telling techniques. I like it!

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:17 pm 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day For when you need it most Hearts Suit Pip Spades Suit Pip
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:28 pm
    Posts: 93
    Criss-crossing looks to confirm Shigir Idol as basis. :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigir_Idol

  • Tipped by 3 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:01 pm 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:28 pm
    Posts: 15
    The sense of depth in the illustration is... funky. I can't quite put my finger on why, but the image feels decidedly flat, especially to have been originally in 3D.

    That aside, I understand that this is an experiment, and I look forward to further refinement of the process.

  • Tipped by 2 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:17 pm 
    User avatar
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Mined 4 Erf This user is a Tool! Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Ruler of Erfworld Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Diamonds Suit Pip Won Mine4erf for the Marbits
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:20 pm
    Posts: 476
    I really like the art in this update for the backgrounds and non-unit elements. I think the modeling of Paige / people still needs some tweaking, but I get that it's work in progress. The addition of the outlining around Paige suggested from the last update REALLY helps.

    UristMcRandom wrote:
    The sense of depth in the illustration is... funky. I can't quite put my finger on why, but the image feels decidedly flat, especially to have been originally in 3D.

    I think the flatness is by design, as there were a bunch of concerns about using 3D techniques in a historically 2D art style. I like it - I was concerned as others were about the new art having TOO much 3D depth.

    Keep going Art Team! Each update looks better. ROCK ON!

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:28 pm 
    User avatar
    This user is a member of Team Erfworld This user is a Tool!
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:48 pm
    Posts: 3
    Seannibal wrote:
    Criss-crossing looks to confirm Shigir Idol as basis. :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigir_Idol

    Nice eye ;)

    Thanks to all who have already posted, and thanks in advance to all the critiques you give us. There is an extreme amount of talk in the background about styles, modeling design, color design, outlines, shading and so much more we are trying to get right, and with each criticism and piece of advice, we get we are only going to get better at this.

    _________________
    Random Highschool 3D Artist
    Team Erfworld

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:55 pm 
    User avatar
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Ruler of Erfworld Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Spades Suit Pip Erfmover Supporter Clubs Suit Pip Arkenhammer Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:26 pm
    Posts: 42
    I'm not sure I'm sold on how... blurry?... she looks, but the outline is a major improvement, I agree.

  • Tipped by 2 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:24 pm 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user has been published! This user posted the comment of the month Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Mined 4 Erf Erfmover Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am
    Posts: 4321
    I'm still struggling with the geography of the art. I don't know what Paige is standing in front of, and if not for the tower in the back, I'd think the green in front of her was a hedge. The green is pretty, but it's pretty amorphous. I don't know what it is supposed to be.

    That being said, I'm eagerly awaiting the next update, which will hopefully have us meeting the tower in earnest.

    _________________
    I'm writing a fan fiction. It's called Murder in the Magic Kingdom. Check it out, if you'd like. Completed May 5th, 2015

    I'm writing a sequel! It's called Finding Sanctuary. Please do give it a look. Last updated December 1st, 2016.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:25 pm 
    This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Hearts Suit Pip Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Spades Suit Pip
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:06 am
    Posts: 40
    Lipkin wrote:
    if not for the tower in the back, I'd think the green in front of her was a hedge.

    Hm. It's not? It still looks like a hedge to me, although that'd mean it (and a second one closer to the new tower) is blocking her way.

    Also not sure what she's standing on; looks a bit like water, but maybe it's the moss mentioned in the text.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:32 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:38 pm
    Posts: 7
    [nitpick]
    Quote:
    [...] the Wifequeen should [...] go see what to do about it.
    The sentiment seems to be that that's the least she should do. In other words, this simple demand is not (yet) demanding much of herself, certainly not more than she would of her characters. That's the opposite of
    Quote:
    That was no less than she would demand of any of her main characters.
    I mean, does she really not demand of her characters even as much as to go see what to do about mysterious circumstances? No, she likely demands much more of them.
    [/nitpick]

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:33 pm 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter This user has been published! Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day This user is a Tool! Mined 4 Erf Diamonds Suit Pip Hearts Suit Pip Spades Suit Pip Arkenhammer Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 8:29 pm
    Posts: 2819
    The straightforward scientific way to tweak such a subjective thing as is art design is to:
    1. Recreate several book 2 pages (say minimum 3)
    2. Tweak one thing;
    3. Compare with the originals and have everyone in the team give a score for each of the 3 pages (subjective score "how close to original it is", that will be different between individuals but consistent for all the pages evaluated by that individual)
    4. Sum all scores

    You now have an objective number of how successful the digital process is generating Xin's style (the multiple subjective scores of each person summed, and always consistently applied across tweaked pages yields an objective measure)

    Keep it up

    _________________

  • Tipped by 2 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:37 pm 
    User avatar
    This user was a Tool before it was cool This user is a Tool! This user has been published! This user got funny with a rodent Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Armored Dwagon Monthly Winner Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Spades Suit Pip Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Hearts Suit Pip Clubs Suit Pip
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:12 pm
    Posts: 323
    The tower's more flowy structure lines make it look a little more fibrous -- like something that's been wrapped or whittled instead of hewn. The background leaves blur nicely, and the foreground leaves have a glossy sunlit sheen -- seems legit.

    Still can't tell if Paige is nervous or not... though, considering she's solo, elderly, and threatened beyond precedent, then I suppose being at all neutral should mean she's being plenty brave.

    Really looking forward to seeing how she gets along with the temple...

    UristMcRandom wrote:
    The sense of depth in the illustration is... funky. I can't quite put my finger on why, but the image feels decidedly flat, especially to have been originally in 3D.

    That aside, I understand that this is an experiment, and I look forward to further refinement of the process.

    I'm a rookie at shading, but I think the flatness came from something to do with that -- though only for the top half, I'd say. The bottom part of the picture looks fine: hedges sitting in the sun, sneaky Overlady edging partly into shadow. But the top part of the picture is what I see first, and I couldn't parse which building was nearer. (see also: rookie at shading)

    But that did have the intriguing side effect of making me feel a bit claustrophobic. On that top edge, I felt like the mottled trees were crowded out by the buildings, and indeed, the tower looms way bigger than our heroine, who's still sneaking closely around those buildings. Could be a useful effect.

    _________________
    We try things. Occasionally they even work.

    ---

    I have a fanfiction archive here and a DeviantArt page -- including Erfworld fanart this site hasn't seen -- here!

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:06 pm 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user has been published! This user posted the comment of the month Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Mined 4 Erf Erfmover Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am
    Posts: 4321
    Istaro wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    if not for the tower in the back, I'd think the green in front of her was a hedge.

    Hm. It's not? It still looks like a hedge to me, although that'd mean it (and a second one closer to the new tower) is blocking her way.

    Also not sure what she's standing on; looks a bit like water, but maybe it's the moss mentioned in the text.

    Yeah, looking again, it definitely seems like hedges, but the perspective is off. The door to the tower seems to be level with the top of the hedge, which is what made me think that the hedge was solid ground. I also don't remember anything like a hedge maze being shown or mentioned, so I didn't have context for what I was seeing.

    I really want better context and definition. Whether that is an issue with shading, or outlines, I can't say.

    _________________
    I'm writing a fan fiction. It's called Murder in the Magic Kingdom. Check it out, if you'd like. Completed May 5th, 2015

    I'm writing a sequel! It's called Finding Sanctuary. Please do give it a look. Last updated December 1st, 2016.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:35 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary This user is a Tool!
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:50 pm
    Posts: 28
    I don't mind the shift to 3d, or the artstyle per say, but I feel like I really do need to say that whatever filter you use to blur it out and make it look like an impressionist painting or something doesn't feel erfworld to me at all. Erfworld has always had very nice, clean lines. Cheers, Balder! Glad to see erfworld will go on.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:18 pm 
    User avatar
    This user is a Tool! Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:29 am
    Posts: 222
    So let me restate something fairly obvious, that all artists typically have their own unique style. So I would not expect a new art team, however composited, to produce the same style of artwork as a previous art team (no matter how much I may lament the loss of Lauri's fabulous background artwork. ;) .) However, style and quality are (arguably to be sure) two different axes, and a change in quality is in no way a given from a change in style-- again with Lauri as a case-in-point. (And with David as a counterpoint, though probably shouldn't go there.)

    With that in mind, as well as in that vein [gotta be a Countess Bunny joke in there somewhere], I think the background artwork is really starting to come together. As others have already echoed, I also had large concerns about too "heavy" of a CGI phenotype in the background and setting art. IMO, the team seem to be doing a fantastic job converging on a new, "uniquely Erfworld" style that still meets the high quality standards we have come to love (and Rob passionately demands. ;) ) Will it look like Xin's or Lauri's? No. Will it be totally awesome? Yes!

    The character artwork, though, seems to lack that same sort of cohesive convergence with the new tools. That is obviously the heavy stone in the pile, since as also has been previously noted, facial expressions and body language are critical components in any comic. But for Erfworld they're more on the order of a quintessence that is a part of what defines the comic. I think Jamie's background art was rather weak, but this was largely a non-issue (at least for me) as his character art was both great and entirely apt. And by now, for better or for worse (or tres magnifique, IMO) Xin has set the standard for Erfworld character art.

    Do I think that a worthy successor to Xin's character art style could potentially be found? Sure. Could it a be a fusion of Xin's style with a new "fifth element"? Entirely possible. Could it be "traditional" 3D CGI? Not a chance in hell.

    And there's the crisis (danger and opportunity, right? [not!]) I see the art team grappling with. When the 2D "cartoon filtering" that is working so well with the backgrounds is applied to the character art, it's dampening the visual expressiveness. When it's dialed back or alternative transforms are invoked, the figures start showing symptoms of "CGI maloptica."

    One respondent suggested having Xin provide pencils and then let the computational grist mill take things from there. That seems like it might be made to work. Another, and far better option from a quality perspective, would be to just have Xin provide the totality of the character artwork. Unfortunately, it sounds like that's a bad option from a human sustainability perspective.

    What I'm going to suggest is probably not mechanically workable, but is at least a weak attempt at some lateral thinking. Instead of trying to force-feed Xin pencils through a CGI workflow, or "rotoscope" traditional 3D CGI models into a semblance of Xin 2D characters, why not start with alternate 2D artwork, such as anime format characters. Then throw those into the CGI hopper. Instead of focusing on getting a 100% certified Xin phenotype out the other end, see if instead a Xin genotype can be produced-- artwork that, while not having "that definitive Xin look", nonetheless still has "the definitive Erfworld feel."

    Of course, y'all may already be way ahead of me and trying to do that very thing, in which case I'll just shut up now. :) :oops:

    P.S. I already said it in an earlier post, but no issues with the storyline and I delight in text updates-- keep 'em comin'!

    _________________
    I suspect the Thinkamancers and the Florists and the Signamancers all are dancing about some cosmic fire they cannot comprehend. - Jack Snipe [Book 2-Text Update 10]

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 21
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:33 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Has collected at least one unit Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Clubs Suit Pip Erfmover Supporter Arkenhammer Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:35 am
    Posts: 3
    Quick take: 7/10

    As others have said, the background art is coming together nicely. The buildings, trees, all feel 'Erf-y'.

    I think that the level of detail in the foreground is a bit jarring compared to what we have seen before. It feels more 'painted' than 'inked'. The dress on the character (especially in the last update) was an egregious example, and looked like a watercolor of a grandmotherly dress, and not something from Erf.

    Having seen the response to critique from the last update, I am sure that you will get it right.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ] 

    Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to: