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 Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:52 am 
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Eclison wrote:
Calling it: from the first sentences of the update, the island is something among the lines of an Aspidochelone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspidochelone. That jolt of air into the skies, once a day, is the breath of the creature, who is possibly in deep sleep.".


Great mental picture! I was already thinking Dragon Turtle from Avatar, but WOW - bigger than Great Scott? And a creature that is 7 hexes in size? Sounds humongous.

Also- i am sensing problems with mixing towers that are directly connected to the Source and capital sites that move. I know that DeIsaac was wandering around the MK, linking to the portals, which DO seem to be locked into place, but always imagined the capital sites were chosen from a potential list. Maybe the connection to the portal in the MK is formed randomly from the available unused ones when a Capital site is reactivated?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:00 am 
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    greycat wrote:
    Raza wrote:
    I feel like I'm missing some hippie culture references here. Sherwood? Butch Gardens?

    Sherwood Forest is where the legendary Robin Hood enacted his progressive taxation policy.

    Butch Gardens sounds like Busch Gardens, which is a theme park in Florida (and also in Williamsburg, apparently).


    My guess is that the hippie names (using Flower Power) are all plant related; just like many of the dirtamancers end up with rock names. (Rockwell, Spade, Derrick, Nugget, Mole, etc. ) Naming convention works for the most famous hippie (to us) of all, Olive Garden.

    ALSO: The tower kept us from talking about these new ex-Hippiemancers, like Sherlock and Butch. Sounds like they just up and left the Glade, without signing a contract for a peace, love, and bolthole. Wonder if THEY are still around somewhere.

    EDIT: Well, the TOWER didn't keep us from talking, but the AWESOMENESS of the tower. ;)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:49 pm 
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    mortissimus wrote:
    Casting a veil, of turn, before they get into an engagement. One could probably twist Jack's meaning to claim that he was merely planning to do so when they are attacked. But in light of all the exceptions, and lack of examples after Book 1 where being of turn has mattered, I think it is more likely that we are dealing with early installment weirdness.


    Good points.

    I'm thinking back to the Battle of Portal Park. Jack cast a spell, a baffle, on enemy unit Parson, right after Parson had turned to Charlescomm, and right before Parson walked through the Charlescomm portal and got shot. But per this update, it was Charlescomm's turn when Lilith was escaping, just moments prior:
    Quote:
    "Some distant metallic booms and slams reverberated from high above. Likely they were locking down gates and hatches from the top down, cutting off [Lilith's] routes up and out. They wouldn't be worried about her escaping, since this was still Charlescomm's turn, and she had no move."

    https://archives.erfworld.com/Book+3/99

    Unless I'm missing a turn change, this seems to be an example of casting a foolamancy spell on an enemy unit on their turn.

    So... yeah, I'm not following the magic system either. I'll probably also go with "early installment weirdness".

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:51 pm 
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    my casual read of the magic system, as it stands now:

    -> Can't move or cross hex boundaries in the normal way when it's not your side's turn. This includes moving from Air to Ground (unless you kill your Dwagon)

    -> Casters CAN use any juice remaining, however they want; however, unless they started the turn un-prisoned, they don't get juice renewed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:50 pm 
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    We can't look at anything in the Magic Kingdom as proof, because the MAgic Kingdom is one giant contested hex. Remember that unless sides are allied, they are hostile. Unlead infantry will auto-engage. Therefore, casting can always be done in the Magic Kingdom. I would think that the one exception to that would be casting at night. Night time is no one's turn, therefore no one should be able to cast. But we've seen many instances of Thinkagrams being sent at night, such as Bunny warning Don about Ponzie's incoming assassination attempt.

    Edit: Here's Sizemore casting to dig up a gem after the volcano. GK's turn begins two turns later. Maggie confirms no enemies remain in GK's space.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:59 pm 
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    Seannibal wrote:
    Also- i am sensing problems with mixing towers that are directly connected to the Source and capital sites that move. I know that DeIsaac was wandering around the MK, linking to the portals, which DO seem to be locked into place, but always imagined the capital sites were chosen from a potential list.

    I would have a hard time believing a capital site can be on top of a mobile creature, no matter how immense, precisely because we know portal columns extend down through the bedrock layers into the Source. And every capital site has a portal column.

    Moreover, the city of Nestlý is an actual capital (not just a capital site), so its portal is active. If it were on the back of some titanic being, the portal energy would be flowing straight through it. That can't be healthy.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:17 pm 
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    Seannibal wrote:
    so if it the new tower IS based on the Shigir Idol, it will be based upon one of the oldest surviving idols we have, from right when the world was changing from the Ice Age to the more temperate modern climate.

    Maybe it is reminescent of one of the oldest because it's one of the original 99 capital sites? Or maybe because of the changes in Erf caused by the awakening of the tutelaries?

    (I might be wandering down the same path that got me to the brain islands.)

    PS - i feel like this is an excellent temporary stopping place so that Rob can get back to Skye. Or Dig Dug. Or seeing how Traeminnis is taking his new tower? Either way, though, keep up the exciting story telling!)


    My guess is that it's a reflection of how the entire side is a bit of an archaeological fossil by Erfworld standards. As far as we can tell it's only ever had two rulers and both of them lasted a hellishly long time and don't seem to have had much of an effect on the rest of the world directly.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:35 pm 
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    greycat wrote:
    Seannibal wrote:
    Also- i am sensing problems with mixing towers that are directly connected to the Source and capital sites that move. I know that DeIsaac was wandering around the MK, linking to the portals, which DO seem to be locked into place, but always imagined the capital sites were chosen from a potential list.

    I would have a hard time believing a capital site can be on top of a mobile creature, no matter how immense, precisely because we know portal columns extend down through the bedrock layers into the Source. And every capital site has a portal column.

    Moreover, the city of Nestlý is an actual capital (not just a capital site), so its portal is active. If it were on the back of some titanic being, the portal energy would be flowing straight through it. That can't be healthy.


    Whilst i'm personally suspecting somthing closer to "Guybrush Threepwood, Mighty Pirate", to play devils advocate:

    1. Jog my memory, where was it shown that the source was below bedrock?

    2. There's no reason we couldn't have a discworld situation where we have a completely self contained world that is also simultaneously part of a larger "universe" and is able to interact with it.

    3. We don't know where the Magic Kingdom is, that fact that the only way Charlie can get in is via portal it's either got some effectively unsurmountable defences, or it's not even on the Erfworld main map. In the later case that means source connection shenanigans are entirely possibble.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:46 pm 
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    The best Zelda game (the one that I repeatedly played through on GBA) was a hallucinatory dream taking place on the back of a giant semi-corporeal flying whale. I think. Anything else is rank heresy.

    And now I wait for the next update to prove me right...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:01 pm 
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    No one else seems to have pointed out that--according to Janice--Parson is also, technically, a Hippymancer, and if gone barbarian could apparently find refuge on the island as well.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:23 pm 
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    vreejack wrote:
    No one else seems to have pointed out that--according to Janice--Parson is also, technically, a Hippymancer, and if gone barbarian could apparently find refuge on the island as well.

    I always took that to be a lie to protect him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:15 am 
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    Seannibal wrote:
    so if it the new tower IS based on the Shigir Idol, it will be based upon one of the oldest surviving idols we have, from right when the world was changing from the Ice Age to the more temperate modern climate.

    Maybe it is reminescent of one of the oldest because it's one of the original 99 capital sites? Or maybe because of the changes in Erf caused by the awakening of the tutelaries?

    (I might be wandering down the same path that got me to the brain islands.)

    PS - i feel like this is an excellent temporary stopping place so that Rob can get back to Skye. Or Dig Dug. Or seeing how Traeminnis is taking his new tower? Either way, though, keep up the exciting story telling!)


    I need to nitpick here for a moment: the world never changed from the ice age. An ice age is defined as a period of time in which either one or both (depending on which definition you use) polar regions are covered in permanent ice caps. That means we are currently in an ice age and have been for either 2.6 million years or more than 33 million years (again, depending on which definition above you use).

    What an ice age has is colder (glacial) and warmer (interglacial) periods. We are currently in an interglacial (since around 10,000 BC, if I remember correctly), which is what you are referring to with the "end of the ice age."

    This completely useless information has been brought to you by Morgaln. We will resume our regular broadcast now.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:34 am 
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    Carl wrote:
    1. Jog my memory, where was it shown that the source was below bedrock?

    It's speculation, of course. The green glowing energy at the center of the portal column that extends down through the bedrock to titans-know-where is probably connecting the Source.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:29 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    vreejack wrote:
    No one else seems to have pointed out that--according to Janice--Parson is also, technically, a Hippymancer, and if gone barbarian could apparently find refuge on the island as well.

    I always took that to be a lie to protect him.


    We know that Parson has a non-zero chance of casting spells. We've seen he has substantial knowledge of Signamancy, and if he's a Signamancer he's a Hippymancer.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:44 pm 
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    Null wrote:
    We know that Parson has a non-zero chance of casting spells. We've seen he has substantial knowledge of Signamancy, and if he's a Signamancer he's a Hippymancer.

    For now, it's just natural signamancy, which technically any thinking being can do.

    It's been established that all units, including non-casters and even golems, have juice. It might simply be that non-casters have a 1 in a million chance of casting a spell, just like non-archers have a 1 in a million chance of hitting someone with a rock. It's just even less likely to occur to anyone to even try.

    The GTFO scroll proves its also possible to perform special modification for casting. Parson probably really isn't a caster right now. But who knows, he might be modified to become one in the future. And being a Stupidworlder, it might be easier for him to "learn" like he did with the guns, when the other Erfers couldn't shoot guns without an auto-special.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:03 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    And being a Stupidworlder, it might be easier for him to "learn" like he did with the guns, when the other Erfers couldn't shoot guns without an auto-special.

    Parson didn't learn.

    1. The Auto-special doesn't work for Parson.
    2. Erfworld units can still shoot guns that aren't specialed, they just can't hit anything.
    3. Parson asked himself why he was killing dudes, but that doesn't mean he personally hit anything. It could be like Dr. Tam from Firefly, who says "I'd never killed anyone before today" after being in a firefight, to which another character replies "I was there, son. You still haven't."

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:25 pm 
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    Quote:
    For now, it's just natural signamancy, which technically any thinking being can do.

    It's been established that all units, including non-casters and even golems, have juice. It might simply be that non-casters have a 1 in a million chance of casting a spell, just like non-archers have a 1 in a million chance of hitting someone with a rock. It's just even less likely to occur to anyone to even try.

    The GTFO scroll proves its also possible to perform special modification for casting. Parson probably really isn't a caster right now. But who knows, he might be modified to become one in the future. And being a Stupidworlder, it might be easier for him to "learn" like he did with the guns, when the other Erfers couldn't shoot guns without an auto-special.


    We know Parson is a Warlord, the Ultimate Warlord (or was that Perfect Warlord?).
    He doesn't really grok casting spells, but he does get the magic in the ways that any min/maxer talented GM/Player from our world would. He knows how to combine things and take advantage of using them in new ways.
    He might be some kind of Hippiemancer, which might make him Erfworlds only (or at least rare enough to not be recognized as such) multiclass with a 0 Level in some kind of Hippiemancer.
    As to signamancy, some of it he just doesn't get, but others, he knows the source materials from stupidworld and so understands them in ways the erfworlders don't. Maybe that is a start of Signamancy, being able to see the deeper connections and meanings.

    Of course back home, other than being a Player and a GM, which qualifies him for Warlord, he's also and artist and makes the Hampstard webcomic, so that also fits with the caster ideals. Not to mention he creates games, like his entire Erfworld game, whatever it was called. Creating things, in Erfworld seems to be limited to one of two ways, either it pops usually after resources pay for it (mostly smuckers), or a caster spends juice to do it.

    There are still a LOT of caster types we really know nothing about. If anyone can remember the chart with the axis and all the casters, that would be great. We could look around the Hippiemancer area and might find something very appropriate for Parson.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:39 pm 
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    meerling wrote:
    If anyone can remember the chart with the axis and all the casters, that would be great. We could look around the Hippiemancer area and might find something very appropriate for Parson.

    https://wiki.erfworld.com/Magic#Basics_of_Magic

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:39 pm 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    vreejack wrote:
    No one else seems to have pointed out that--according to Janice--Parson is also, technically, a Hippymancer, and if gone barbarian could apparently find refuge on the island as well.

    I always took that to be a lie to protect him.


    Janice might have been lying, but thematically you cannot ignore that fact that all the characters ignored what she said, even though his passage through the portal screamed, "caster."

    So, either Janice damaged her own credibility by making an obvious lie that everyone saw through, or Parson is some kind of Hippymancer and nobody in the MK cared because he was a Chief Warlord. Or Janice lied and nobody noticed and they also didn't care because... Parson. But I think it's likely that Janice could tell if someone is connected to her own field and she saw something hippy-like in Parson, something no one in any other field saw.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:50 pm 
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    Seannibal wrote:
    I feel pretty good about this guess as to the idol source!
    Image

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigir_Idol

    This says little about how the tower will be, as Derply's personality (not I'm Coming For You Stanley tower's REAL name, but i've forgotten...Templeton?) basically was a combo of his Derpy look and the intellectual understanding that Jillian needs.


    Someone made a 3D model of the Shigir Idol that you can rotate, pan, zoom around. If you get perspective right, you can see a "Noah's-eye" view of his new tower.

    https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/shigir- ... b9b8ec7490?


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