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 Post subject: Fumo the Free - Part 3
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:05 pm 
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New One is up.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:24 pm 
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    Hmmm, i wonder, could there be a seafaring side nearby. Could explain the elves dislike if they've had to deal with hostiles wearing similar raiment in the past...

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:31 pm 
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    Huh, I thought that barbarians always moved first and all at the same time. So either there can be a way in general to move first (Carnymancy?, Turnamancy?) or a specific type of units exists which move before barbarians or barbarians act like mini sides and get a order of move if they are in the same battlespace. Either way it is hard to get the mechanics pinned down definitely. As usual ;).

    I also assumed that "normal" flat terrain would cost two move points to enter and roads would bring that down to 1. But perhaps the warlord part was crucial?

    "For a warlord, a coastal hex with clear weather meant a move cost of only one..." So maybe roads bring the down the necessary move value for heavy units? Or perhaps no movement penalty for shoving Siege Towers around on roads?

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:30 am 
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    We've got some more detail on the border scouting, now. Looks like when things are clear, it costs no move to walk up to a border of the hex and look to the other side, but in some high-move hexes it actually costs Move just to walk to one side of the hex and look across the border to the next one.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:34 am 
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    Since the elves told him which hex he needs to go through, then he doesn't need to border scout, right? Therefore, he'd have 6 move.

    Alternatively. That jungle hex he burned down. Does that have a move penalty? Cause, if not, burning down the hexes near him could help him travel along further.

    Glad we got it cleared up that border scouting does, indeed cost an extra move. Jungle hexes cost 4 move total per hex. The method that border scouting works is still unclear though.

    Maybe it's some sort of natural magic that if you touch the hex border, you can find out the composition of the next hex, but it costs 1 move. This way if there is a lake or a road in the hex that you can't see from your position, you have a way of knowing that it's there without entering the hex. You may do this for every other hex your hex borders for no cost.

    That makes sense to me. I'll assume this is how it works.

    I'm a little confused about this turn order as well. Do barbarians also have an order among themselves? Older barbarians go first?

    My personal assumption about roads is that they are a multiplier for travel. There are some pretty slow land units, after all, but they seemed to make good time in traveling around armies. I'd say that you only use up 0.5 move per road hex you travel, but there is a restriction of not being allowed to get off the road.

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    Last edited by TomaO2 on Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:48 am 
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    "I want to live."

    He reminds me of me, during a time in my life when I thought my last few turns were about up. Poor guy.

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     Post subject: Bow before the RNG
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:03 am 
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    Perhaps it’s my fondness of roguelikes, but I have a soft spot for randomly generated characters. They don’t get to decide what side they start on, what equipment they have, or even where they pop. That’s why I think Fumo has a brother that spawned with armor in the ocean - we hardly knew thee, Prohibido Fumar.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:19 am 
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    dzScritches wrote:
    "I want to live."

    He reminds me of me, during a time in my life when I thought my last few turns were about up. Poor guy.


    He and (almost) every other barbarian on Erfworld. The sided units are very poor guys and gals too for different reasons but they (usually) do not have to worry about upkeep at least.

    We people on Stupidworld are intellectually aware that we will die at some point (at least most of us are aware of that) and we can use rough estimates depending on our age and health (I will probably be dead in x years) but unless we are terminally ill or heavily wounded we do not get in situations where we know when we will die and only waiting for death is left.

    Every Erfworld barbarian commander can precisely calculate when he or she will disband depending on their current wealth. And when they end up without funds and move in a hex at night they know they will disband as soon as their turn would start. At this point they can only pray that something or someone pays their upkeep before their turn actually starts. And they have to deal with that knowledge every damn turn.

    I would go nuts in five minutes, at the latest, if it worked that way back on Stupidworld.

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     Post subject: Re: Bow before the RNG
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:00 am 
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    Heffenfeffer wrote:
    Perhaps it’s my fondness of roguelikes, but I have a soft spot for randomly generated characters. They don’t get to decide what side they start on, what equipment they have, or even where they pop.


    Who ever does? Everyone is randomly generated, even here in Stupidworld.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:05 am 
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    When you wish upon a bird,
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    Anything your heart desires will...


    ...probably be in another hex.

    Not feeling a lot of hope for a happy ending here, but one could argue that Fumo has nowhere to go but up. Still, it was a bit of a letdown to hear it confirmed that the Elves won't keep him around, not even for smokes. They weren't exactly charitable at the start, but any port in a storm etc.

    If only he had a port...

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:37 am 
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    It's interesting that the see bird was able to record and relay an entire turn's worth of happenings (in some form) to Noah, even though it's just now flying overhead and presumably moving at a speed of several hexes per turn. Wonder what its subjective "speed of time" is up there.

    I also wonder just how much of this Noah is getting. Presumably not Fumo's inner monologue and things like that.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:21 am 
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    Bandaid wrote:
    He and (almost) every other barbarian on Erfworld. The sided units are very poor guys and gals too for different reasons but they (usually) do not have to worry about upkeep at least.

    We people on Stupidworld are intellectually aware that we will die at some point (at least most of us are aware of that) and we can use rough estimates depending on our age and health (I will probably be dead in x years) but unless we are terminally ill or heavily wounded we do not get in situations where we know when we will die and only waiting for death is left.

    Every Erfworld barbarian commander can precisely calculate when he or she will disband depending on their current wealth. And when they end up without funds and move in a hex at night they know they will disband as soon as their turn would start. At this point they can only pray that something or someone pays their upkeep before their turn actually starts. And they have to deal with that knowledge every damn turn.

    I would go nuts in five minutes, at the latest, if it worked that way back on Stupidworld.


    Sounds kinda like living paycheck-to-paycheck in a place without a social safety net.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:55 am 
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    tanonev wrote:
    Bandaid wrote:
    He and (almost) every other barbarian on Erfworld. The sided units are very poor guys and gals too for different reasons but they (usually) do not have to worry about upkeep at least.

    We people on Stupidworld are intellectually aware that we will die at some point (at least most of us are aware of that) and we can use rough estimates depending on our age and health (I will probably be dead in x years) but unless we are terminally ill or heavily wounded we do not get in situations where we know when we will die and only waiting for death is left.

    Every Erfworld barbarian commander can precisely calculate when he or she will disband depending on their current wealth. And when they end up without funds and move in a hex at night they know they will disband as soon as their turn would start. At this point they can only pray that something or someone pays their upkeep before their turn actually starts. And they have to deal with that knowledge every damn turn.

    I would go nuts in five minutes, at the latest, if it worked that way back on Stupidworld.


    Sounds kinda like living paycheck-to-paycheck in a place without a social safety net.


    Sounds more like being homeless in a place without a social safety net. Living paycheck to paycheck would be like receiving regular smuckers just sufficient for upkeep.

    Also, is it just me, or does the Chief Punk have an stereotypical Australian accent/idiom?

    P.S. As someone living in Australia, if someone called me "mate" that often it would totally be aggressive.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:52 am 
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    Quakken wrote:
    tanonev wrote:
    Bandaid wrote:
    He and (almost) every other barbarian on Erfworld. The sided units are very poor guys and gals too for different reasons but they (usually) do not have to worry about upkeep at least.

    We people on Stupidworld are intellectually aware that we will die at some point (at least most of us are aware of that) and we can use rough estimates depending on our age and health (I will probably be dead in x years) but unless we are terminally ill or heavily wounded we do not get in situations where we know when we will die and only waiting for death is left.

    Every Erfworld barbarian commander can precisely calculate when he or she will disband depending on their current wealth. And when they end up without funds and move in a hex at night they know they will disband as soon as their turn would start. At this point they can only pray that something or someone pays their upkeep before their turn actually starts. And they have to deal with that knowledge every damn turn.

    I would go nuts in five minutes, at the latest, if it worked that way back on Stupidworld.


    Sounds kinda like living paycheck-to-paycheck in a place without a social safety net.


    Sounds more like being homeless in a place without a social safety net. Living paycheck to paycheck would be like receiving regular smuckers just sufficient for upkeep.

    Also, is it just me, or does the Chief Punk have an stereotypical Australian accent/idiom?

    P.S. As someone living in Australia, if someone called me "mate" that often it would totally be aggressive.

    Possibly. The Punk sub-culture started in the UK, US, and Australia (or so wikipedia tells me).

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:44 am 
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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:09 am 
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    Carl wrote:
    Hmmm, i wonder, could there be a seafaring side nearby. Could explain the elves dislike if they've had to deal with hostiles wearing similar raiment in the past...


    It's probably a general disrespect for authority inherent to Punks. Why they bothered to help him in the first place is kind of a mystery then, but I think I can explain it. Probably just wanted some smokes and they rather give him a small, almost worthless gem than to fight the guy. He may croak a few of them before he went down and they really didn't want to kill him cause he amused the hell out of them and they want the cigs. I'm thinking Gobber made the final call on that. That's something that Fumo couldn't begin to understand when he's this young.

    Bandaid wrote:
    Huh, I thought that barbarians always moved first and all at the same time... Either way it is hard to get the mechanics pinned down definitely. As usual ;).


    As far as I understand it, the younger the side/barbarian, the more likely they are to have an early turn. Older sides (thus sides more likely to be powerful or, at least, SHOULD be powerful) have turns late in the day.

    Bandaid wrote:
    I also assumed that "normal" flat terrain would cost two move points to enter and roads would bring that down to 1. But perhaps the warlord part was crucial?


    Probably depends on the unit and terrain. A forest hex may be two move for a normal warlord. A forest hex with a road or animal path may be one. A beach hex would be also be one move. For a siege engine, a forest/animal path wouldn't really help and the sandy beach would be near impossible terrain both depending on the size of the engine (assuming it has wheels and isn't a unit).

    ftl wrote:
    We've got some more detail on the border scouting, now.


    And boy am I happy about that. XD

    tomaO2 wrote:
    My personal assumption about roads is that they are a multiplier for travel... I'd say that you only use up 0.5 move per road hex you travel...


    That's also possible. Erfworld is sort of based off of the Civilization games. I'm not sure about the other games, but in Civ V you could research an upgrade that allow units to travel twice as fast on roads (before that, roads don't have any effect at all which I thought was stupid, but that's a different topic).

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:09 am 
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    Thecommander236 wrote:
    ...

    tomaO2 wrote:
    My personal assumption about roads is that they are a multiplier for travel... I'd say that you only use up 0.5 move per road hex you travel...


    That's also possible. Erfworld is sort of based off of the Civilization games. I'm not sure about the other games, but in Civ V you could research an upgrade that allow units to travel twice as fast on roads (before that, roads don't have any effect at all which I thought was stupid, but that's a different topic).


    Aha, now MY extensive knowledge comes into play!! Even though it's off topic...

    In Civ V roads DO have an effect as soon as you build them. Firstly, they negate all terrain effects. So for our brave warlord here, if he had a road going through the thick jungle, he'd only spend 1 movement point. Next, roads do immediately double movement speed! So only 1/2 point per hex (again, this counts for Civ V!)! And yes, with some tech advancements, you can automatically build bridges to negate that terrain too, and increase speed even more.

    BUT to bring it back around on topic, there's no such thing as "tech research" in Erfworld, only link-mancy hacking. Have we ever had solo units travel along roads before? I can only remember columns: Royal attack on GK, GK attack on Stanley.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:25 am 
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    dzScritches wrote:
    "I want to live."

    He reminds me of me, during a time in my life when I thought my last few turns were about up. Poor guy.

    This is indeed a very grim and somber backer story :?

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:28 am 
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    DeanXeL wrote:
    Thecommander236 wrote:
    ...

    tomaO2 wrote:
    My personal assumption about roads is that they are a multiplier for travel... I'd say that you only use up 0.5 move per road hex you travel...


    That's also possible. Erfworld is sort of based off of the Civilization games. I'm not sure about the other games, but in Civ V you could research an upgrade that allow units to travel twice as fast on roads (before that, roads don't have any effect at all which I thought was stupid, but that's a different topic).


    Aha, now MY extensive knowledge comes into play!! Even though it's off topic...

    In Civ V roads DO have an effect as soon as you build them. Firstly, they negate all terrain effects. So for our brave warlord here, if he had a road going through the thick jungle, he'd only spend 1 movement point. Next, roads do immediately double movement speed! So only 1/2 point per hex (again, this counts for Civ V!)! And yes, with some tech advancements, you can automatically build bridges to negate that terrain too, and increase speed even more.

    BUT to bring it back around on topic, there's no such thing as "tech research" in Erfworld, only link-mancy hacking. Have we ever had solo units travel along roads before? I can only remember columns: Royal attack on GK, GK attack on Stanley.


    This might be splitting hairs but I see everytime a caster learns something new, not only link-ups as the equivalent to tech research in Civ.

    We do get mentions of roads from the start with the RCC in book I, Ansom mentioned there was only one good road into GK so they needed to take it he mentioned Stanley's forces might give battle on that road.

    So we see that with a large army roads are very much needed and commanders will use them even if they are telegraphing to the opponent "this is the route I'm coming in on".

    For Webinar's smaller group the orders were the reverse they should prioritize avoiding engagements at the cost of moving more slowly cross country (at least this was the initial plan)

    As an alternate benefit might I propose a different usage for roads, a city provides a base income of 1000 per turn, but if that city were connected via road to another it's income automatically is 1100, if it's connected to 2 others 1200 etc static bonuses to income to simulate a trade economy.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:15 am 
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    Thecommander236 wrote:
    Bandaid wrote:
    Huh, I thought that barbarians always moved first and all at the same time... Either way it is hard to get the mechanics pinned down definitely. As usual ;).


    As far as I understand it, the younger the side/barbarian, the more likely they are to have an early turn. Older sides (thus sides more likely to be powerful or, at least, SHOULD be powerful) have turns late in the day.

    I believe you've got this backwards. From Turn, within each battlespace, barbarians go first, and then the oldest side, and then the second-oldest side, and so on. Alliances make this a bit trickier, with all alliance members going simultaneously during the last (youngest) side's turn, and with Interesting Things happening if alliances are created/dissolved during a turn. All of which happened on the Turn From Hellabad at the end of book 4.

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