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 Post subject: Fumo the Free - Part 2
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:32 pm 
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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:40 pm 
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    Looks like Fumo lucked out (so far) and found some friendly punks. Good thing he has smokes to bribe them/trade with them.

    Erfworld, a place so weird that smokes are good for your health.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:45 pm 
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    I am a bit confused about the scouting though. Should you not be able to walk along the hex border of the hex you are in and look into the other hexes for free? I thought only crossing a hex border cost you move. Or is there a mechanic where you spend one move point and gain more information about a hex without entering it?

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:53 pm 
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    Bandaid wrote:
    I am a bit confused about the scouting though. Should you not be able to walk along the hex border of the hex you are in and look into the other hexes for free? I thought only crossing a hex border cost you move. Or is there a mechanic where you spend one move point and gain more information about a hex without entering it?

    He's in a rainforest. All the other hexes he was surrounded by were forest hexes.

    It's not like you can see very far what with all them trees in the way.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:59 pm 
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    I guess that's why they call him Fumo, after all the Fumes! :o

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:04 pm 
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    Ha. Popping with ciggies will save his life. Wish you put the fact that popped with cigs in the first part. I would have liked to see if anyone would have guessed THAT saving his life. That's why he's Fumo the Free. Because he goes where Fate takes him. He sails free on the sea of Fate. Also, kinda a joke on "smoke 'em if you got 'em", but it's instead "sail 'em if you got 'em".

    FreddyND wrote:
    I guess that's why they call him Fumo, after all the Fumes! :o


    That seems to be the other part of his "joke".

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    Last edited by Thecommander236 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:09 pm 
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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:17 pm 
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    I'm going to assume only warlords and caster pop free. I don't think pikers, stabbers, archers, etc have purses.

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    Last edited by Thecommander236 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:22 pm 
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    FreddyND wrote:
    I guess that's why they call him Fumo, after all the Fumes! :o

    That and we wouldn't have much of a story if he were called "Fubah".
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    I also cannot imagine that normal forest has a movement cost of 1.

    Oh come on, we're talking about a rainforest here. I shouldn't have to specify what kind of forest he's surrounded by,since presumably they'd be the same forest. It specificly stated that it takes a movement penalty of 4 just to enter ANY of the adjacent hexes.
    Bandaid wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Bandaid wrote:
    I am a bit confused about the scouting though. Should you not be able to walk along the hex border of the hex you are in and look into the other hexes for free? I thought only crossing a hex border cost you move. Or is there a mechanic where you spend one move point and gain more information about a hex without entering it?

    He's in a rainforest. All the other hexes he was surrounded by were forest hexes.

    It's not like you can see very far what with all them trees in the way.


    "It took a full move’s worth of scouting to confirm that all six hexes surrounding him were also dense jungle, each with a terrain penalty of four to enter."

    Sounds to me like he popped in a jungle hex surrounded by six other jungle hexes. And jungle (at least this type of jungle) seems to have a movement penalty of four in general. I also cannot imagine that normal forest has a movement cost of 1. That value is usally reserved for roads, at least concerning units on foot/wheels/tracks.

    Anyways from the looks of things, if he lost any move besides from entering another hex, it'd be the loss of one move from going to each of the edges of his starting hex, leaving him at 4 move (which he then used to moe into another hex)

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:26 pm 
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    Thecommander236 wrote:
    I'm going to assume only warlords and caster pop free. I don't think poker, stabbers, and archers have purses.


    Only commanders have purses. Perhaps common infantry can pop together with a commander. If common infantry actually has a chance to pop without a commander ...
    They would have even lower chances of survival then the average warlord/caster. They have to make contact with someone willing to pay their upkeep on their first turn or disband. Maybe they could use gems to pay their upkeep if they hold them in their hands when the turn starts. But that is a big maybe which I also doubt. And then there is the issue of getting gems in the first place. If a bunch of diggers popped they might be able to mine....

    It would perfectly fit in with the "getting the short end of the stick" theme Erfworld seems to have going on for non-commanders (and most commanders) though.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:29 pm 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Anyways from the looks of things, if he lost any move besides from entering another hex, it'd be the loss of one move from going to each of the edges of his starting hex, leaving him at 4 move (which he then used to moe into another hex)


    Moving 2 hexes would cost 8 move. He would only have 2 left which is not enough to go further. So yeah, he didn't use any move to simply look in the adjacent hexes.

    The fire probably saved his damn life. He's in a jungle, he would never be found if he didn't make a smoke signal. Too bad he landed face first into said smoke signal, but he was trying to stop the ants. The signal to the elves was just a happy bonus. And he's lucky he didn't burn with said ants. Fumo may have normal stats, but his hidden luckamancy must be high, because he would never had MADE a fire if he didn't end up in the one hex that HAD ants.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:20 pm 
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    Thecommander236 wrote:
    Also, kinda a joke on "smoke 'em if you got 'em", but it's instead "sail 'em if you got 'em".

    That's a stretch. It's just a sound-alike for Salem brand cigarettes.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:20 pm 
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    greycat wrote:
    Thecommander236 wrote:
    Also, kinda a joke on "smoke 'em if you got 'em", but it's instead "sail 'em if you got 'em".

    That's a stretch. It's just a sound-alike for Salem brand cigarettes.


    "Sail" as in "for sale". XD So they are "'for sale' (sell 'em) if 'he has' (ya got) 'em". Haha!

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    Last edited by Thecommander236 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:26 pm 
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    FreddyND wrote:
    I guess that's why they call him Fumo, after all the Fumes! :o


    Plus "fumo" means "I smoke" in Spanish. Appropriate that he pops with c-sticks.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:59 pm 
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    The ant bites are interesting. How does Erfworld treat something like that? Are the ants units in any way, or some sort of trap effect, or what?

    We know Olive Branch weaponized plants as a low-upkeep defense solution. I wonder how insects would fare.

    Edit: The poster above me has been a member for 3 years and is a Tool, but that was their first post. That's some hardcore lurking right there. :shock:

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:42 pm 
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    Ah darn, and here I'd hoped that he'd popped on an island and was going to use the tree to "sail away" on a makeshift boat or something.

    Ah well, saved by the elves. It sounds a little anime to me, "punk elves" was it? I can only guess what they look like.

    Actually... the first thing that came to mind was... well, let's see the actual description

    Quote:
    They were weird ones (if Fumo could possibly judge anything about the world as usual or unusual), wearing torn blue and black rainment, with incomprehensible war paint on their skin and silvery pins and rivets stuck in their bodies and clothing. Their pigmented spiked hair made their whole heads look like colorful weapons.


    So, while I'm sure I'm wrong, or rather, that there are better examples, the first thing that came to MY mind was... (the abridged verison) "Attention Duelists!"

    Because let's see, he's got the blue and black rainment, silvery pins and rivets in his clothes, and his hair is spiked and pigmented. All he's really missing is the tears in his rainment, the "War paint", and the pins and rivets in his skin.

    Meh, seems about halfway there, but still, a start.

    Oh, and they want smokes too, hmm. Why does Erfworld start feeling like it's some kind of prison all of a sudden?

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:58 pm 
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    DreadArchon wrote:
    The ant bites are interesting. How does Erfworld treat something like that? Are the ants units in any way, or some sort of trap effect, or what?

    We know Olive Branch weaponized plants as a low-upkeep defense solution. I wonder how insects would fare.

    Edit: The poster above me has been a member for 3 years and is a Tool, but that was their first post. That's some hardcore lurking right there. :shock:


    Low level paralyzing poison, I assume. Painful, but won't take hits off of you until you have received X amount of poison from Y amount of stings. 10 stings make take a hit off of you and put you in a low level temporary stun. Being bitten in a place more sensitive say the neck or groin would count as maybe 2 stings. Being stung in the groin may also lead to a type of penalty. Say, now you're walking cross legged and sprinting is uncomfortable, so if you have a run speed of 30 m/s, you are now down to 25 m/s. Whereas movement through hexes is a Stat, an unknown stat would be movement speed within the hex. That may be based on movement through hexes. Say a unit can move 20 hexes and another move 10 hexes. Movement speed for the one who can move 20 hexes inside the hex would be 60 m/s and the one can move 10 hexes would be proportional at 30 m/s.

    Regardless, injury seems to have little effect on how many hexes you can move, but will affect how fast you can run. After all, you have your entire turn to use that hex movement Stat. Perhaps there are exceptions such as your foot being cut off ("now you're down to zero move!") Anyways paralyzing poisons such as the ant poison may also cause max movement speed to degrade. Eventually with enough poison that movement speed will be 0 m/s (fully paralyzed) regardless if the target has actually died yet or not.

    Within the last few months I have started watching Team Four Star play their DnD campaign. I realize belatedly that EVERY character in Erfworld rolls for everything they do. It may not just a hit or miss die. It may be that every unit has something comparable to DnD stats that are hidden (such as intelligence, wisdom, strength, etc.) Grapple checks and the works included in those rolls affected by those stats. Even IF everything is a hit or miss die, there are still critical hits (nat 20s) and critical misses (nat 1s) and if you nat 1, you then would roll a second hit die to see if you shot, say, your friend by accident or you broke your pike. (This is interesting as when Sammy Haggar died, a piker broke his pike's handle, so there is some kinda roll that, "hey, you hit, let's roll to see how much damage your weapon took"). And perhaps, maybe, the opponent rolls a wound die. Like, "okay, you hit him, it was a nice normal hit, but now you roll to see if your guy saw it coming and lifted his shield in time to block it".

    That is why Mr. Fumo here can fight the ants. "Roll to see if you hit the ant that bit you." But the ant is on him, so it may be that he doesn't get a dodge roll because the proximity of that ant to his flesh guarantees a hit. He may instead roll a reaction die. Like, "okay, that ant critical hit you in a sensitive area, roll to see if you lose focus or not and let go of the tree". Poor Fumo nat 1'ed himself headfirst into a fire whereas if was, say, level 5, that same sting with that same nat 1 might not cause him to fall because he "willed" himself through the pain and forced himself to stay conscious (essentially, he has a higher stat bonus that improved his roll just enough to pass).

    My basis for all of this is that if there's a hidden stat like "loyalty" maybe there's a lot more stats that are simply hidden as well. And those stats may be a little bit more concert like, "strength" and "intellect" or maybe ones a little more abstract like "knowledge of flanking maneuvers in land battles".

    (Note that nat 1's are always a failure in DnD even if your bonuses would modify it enough to be a success, so I'm just using it as an example that doesn't fit DnD rules which is fair because we're talking Erfworld rules where a nat 1 may not be an automatic failure).

    Arci wrote:
    Quote:
    They were weird ones (if Fumo could possibly judge anything about the world as usual or unusual), wearing torn blue and black rainment, with incomprehensible war paint on their skin and silvery pins and rivets stuck in their bodies and clothing. Their pigmented spiked hair made their whole heads look like colorful weapons.


    So, while I'm sure I'm wrong, or rather, that there are better examples, the first thing that came to MY mind was... (the abridged verison) "Attention Duelists!"


    I'm thinking more like how Albert looks. Studded jackets, ripped jeans, and piercings all over their faces with hair up in liberty spikes maybe wearing bandanas over their faces or crude gas masks (if they have some kinda of low level dollamancy or something).

    Or possibly... Although that would be more likely Goth Elves style. I'm sure punk elves and goth elves tend to get along famously.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:25 pm 
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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:25 pm 
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    The ants get rated as a hazard after all, interesting.

    Bandaid wrote:
    "It took a full move’s worth of scouting to confirm that all six hexes surrounding him were also dense jungle, each with a terrain penalty of four to enter."

    Sounds to me like he popped in a jungle hex surrounded by six other jungle hexes. And jungle (at least this type of jungle) seems to have a movement penalty of four in general. I also cannot imagine that normal forest has a movement cost of 1. That value is usally reserved for roads, at least concerning units on foot/wheels/tracks.


    I don't know why that "full move's worth" line was included, but we know he starts with 10 move and when he was done...
    "his move was zero."

    Therefore, it was 5 move per hex. Costs 1 move normally and there was a 4 point penalty, making it cost 5 move per hex. There is no other way to have him start with ten move, only to finish with none.

    I have to say, 10 move for a freaking level 1 infantry unit is a lot higher than we had been led to believe. Jack, a high level caster, was listed as having 8 move back in book 1, and Ansom's fast reaction force, that he used to great effect during the Unaroyal campaign, had an 18 move minimum. That group was mainly mounts and fliers.

    I still think 8 is a better base move for a warlord, especially when it was suggested in the previous update that leveling increases move.

    Having it start at 10 just seems too high. Particularly when there seem to be heavy mounts that don't even get up to 18 move. Spidews, for instance, do not seem to meet that standard. At least, I never noticed any spidews taking part in the group, despite being the main GK land mount.

    That said, it's been a long time since we've gotten move stats from a land unit, so if mounts have gotten a movement boost retcon since book 2, that would also be okay.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:47 pm 
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    tomaO2 wrote:
    I don't know why that "full move's worth" line was included, but we know he starts with 10 move and when he was done...
    "his move was zero."

    Therefore, it was 5 move per hex. Costs 1 move normally and there was a 4 point penalty, making it cost 5 move per hex. There is no other way to read this update and get that result.


    Fair.

    Quote:
    I have to say, 10 move for a freaking level 1 infantry unit is a lot higher than we had been led to believe. Jack, a high level caster, was listed as having 8 move back in book 1, and Ansom's fast reaction force, that he used to great effect during the Unaroyal campaign, had an 18 move minimum. That group was mainly mounts and fliers.

    I still think 8 is a better base move for a warlord, especially when it was suggested in the previous update that leveling increases move. Having it start at 10 just seems too high. Especially when there do seem to be mounts that don't even get up to 18 move. Spidews seem to not meet that standard, since they didn't seem to be used for the rush, despite being the main GK land mount. Although, if land mounts have gotten a move boost since book 2, that would also be okay.


    Jack is also a squishy-as-fuck caster though.
    Mr. Strong Man carny may have a higher move rate because he's "stronger" which, again, I think a hidden "endurance/strength/speed" Stat may determine "Move/Attack/Movement Speed" stats. Jack is clearly not the peak of fitness.

    This makes me wonder if doing a jog around the castle every day may improve Move upon gaining your next level. Like running 3 miles every day gives you a 20% increased chance to gain a point of Move upon your next level. Or running with your plate armor can increase movement speed within a hex because it decreases the movement speed penalties that is normally associated with plate mail.

    There's a lot of variables that can't really be determined. Parson speculated in Book 1 that he's the only one who gets tired while moving around in a hex, but Janis got winded and sweaty while sprinting through the magic Kingdom in Book 3 which implies Move (a knowable state) and movement speed/exhaustion level (unknowable ones) both exist separately and in some form that may or may not be related to the each other.

    Like say jogging every day can increase the chances to get improved Move whereas Jack never exercises so maybe he gets a penalty to his chances of increasing his Move. How would you be able to tell? Even within a stack that popped together, each unit is somewhat unique. How could you tell if that extra Move point that Archer #67 got upon leveling was predetermined by his stat growth curb or that him doing all those squats made him more likely to get that point? If everyone but him from his original stack died or even if they didn't AND also got that Move point upon gaining that level, you would have a hard time figuring if it was nature or nurture that made that point happen. Maybe every unit in that stack was fond of squats, but his brother, archer #68, didn't get that point because the extra 20% wasn't enough to boost his roll to get that Move point. Or maybe his brother was predetermined to get that point in the level after his brother got it.

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    Last edited by Thecommander236 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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