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 Post subject: Fumo the Free - Part 1
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:54 pm 
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New One is up.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:01 pm 
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    Huh. Don’t get the joke on his name.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:16 pm 
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    Fear Uf Missing Out?

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:28 pm 
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    Quote:
    Even barbarians who were in their element would depop unless they found a source of upkeep; with a few extremely rare exceptions, forage can only provide half the cost of a unit's next turn. It didn't matter if you'd filled your stomach. If your purse was empty at start of turn, then you were gone.
    :| I'm just going to go ahead and tell any fanfic writer reading this that I don't mind this particular piece of canon being ignored, on account of it being lame.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:36 pm 
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    Seems like Noah could end up being a sort of Greek Chorus, and the See Bird might have several backstories within.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:55 pm 
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    For the "forage gets only half upkeep" thing - I'm gonna hazard a guess that forage and hunting are different, and that a full belly including meat is likely sufficient.

    1) Forage has specific connotations, implying flora, not fauna
    2) Based on the rule for stews, bringing veggies gets you a bowl, bringing meat gets you multiple days worth - that implies that meat is worth significantly more nutrients.


    I think fanfic is safe if you make sure your barbarians are hunters, not just gatherers.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:46 pm 
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    I'm confused...isn't this page 2?

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:52 pm 
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    I was almost about to guess that Paige might be the name of the bird... but "Wifequeen" sounds like a more humanoid title. Whoever she is (or was?), her history and story (and her opinion in the previosu update) were vital to Noah. Ruler? Lover? Teacher? Lost version of any of the above?

    That bit at the start... is Noah saying that one's name is not the same as one's Sign? Maybe that's part of what Janis meant when she said that objects in Erfworld can have self-evident jokes.

    Also, I concur that "eaten by ants" would be way towards the bottom of ways to croak.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:59 pm 
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    As if we needed proof that Erfworld itself was a cruel and horrible place.

    Eaten by pants is... proof that I'm too tired to write this properly!

    Eaten by ants is a fairly painful way to go.

    Of course, if I were Erfworld, I wouldn't pop a wild warlord without there being at least one way for them to survive. Not that it would be easy nor that they would know what that way is, but at least one way.

    Case in point, I'd also pop a gen conveniently close to the surface... but inconveniently in the ant's colony, so fighting the ants is the only way to reach it. Don't run, fight!

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:11 am 
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    I'm glad to see the backer updates resume again. They might be a good way to fund Erfworld since they don't need as much art; sell backer stories for X amount of dollars to get people featured in the plot, then get more money from people pledging for backer stories.

    Also, this Paige person; I wonder if it's related at all to Paige Down (or whatever it was called) in the Dig Doug story? Or maybe the name similarity is just coincidence since that is a minor detail.

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:26 am 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day For when you need it most Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Clubs Suit Pip Spades Suit Pip Hearts Suit Pip Diamonds Suit Pip Erfmover Supporter Arkenhammer Supporter
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    Kyrt wrote:
    I'm confused...isn't this page 2?

    No. Noah was introduced in Book 5 prologue 3. This page is the start of a new backer story. It's explained in the earlier news post.

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:28 am 
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    Jaxad0127 wrote:
    Kyrt wrote:
    I'm confused...isn't this page 2?

    No. Noah was introduced in Book 5 prologue 3. This page is the start of a new backer story. It's explained in the earlier news post.


    Yep, the backer story is embedded within prologue three, as something Noah witnesses via the see bird, but is helpless to intervene in.


    Last edited by niklinna on Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:30 am 
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    No idea about Fumo's name, but he is definitely chopping in vain at that tree.

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:47 am 
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    Is that supposed to say "nyloconut tree"? Nylocnut doesn't sound right.

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:50 am 
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    niklinna wrote:
    Jaxad0127 wrote:
    Kyrt wrote:
    I'm confused...isn't this page 2?

    No. Noah was introduced in Book 5 prologue 3. This page is the start of a new backer story. It's explained in the earlier news post.


    Yep, the backer story is embedded within prologue three, as something Noah witnesses via the see bird, but is helpless to intervene in.


    I love story-within-a-story; Hamlet arranging for a play about a king being poisoned to spook his poisoner uncle and so on.

    I'm interested to see how Fumo's probably short and sad tale brings us back to who Noah is and what he'll be doing in the larger world.

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:03 am 
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    This feels like Erfworld Warlords pop in (as?) a sort of "quantum foam" where the rare ones that survive are balanced out in Numbers by the ones that don't last long.

    I wouldn't be surprised if when major characters pop the rate of barbarian warlord "failure to thrive" goes up dramatically to compensate. It never fully compensates so there's still always a price to be paid, but I suspect this is part of the mitigation action for balance -- Erfworld balances the popping of a major character with the opportunity for hundreds of smaller sides to chance upon a cheap roaming warlord.

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:27 am 
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    Arci wrote:
    Of course, if I were Erfworld, I wouldn't pop a wild warlord without there being at least one way for them to survive. Not that it would be easy nor that they would know what that way is, but at least one way.


    If you were, sure. You're a good person. I think one thing that's clear at this point is that the Titans when they designed Erfworld didn't really put too high a stock on the lives of individual units.

    To me this talks to Erfworld being a random number generator working its way through lookup tables. Let's say a non-populated hex pops a new unit every turn. Each table is heavily influenced by the type of hex (climate/terrain etc.) but maybe if there's a 1d100 rolled rolling a 99 produces a random non-suitable animal (a fish on top of a mountain) and 00 produces a barbarian human from a secondary subtable which selects a type after which specific stats are rolled.

    Random number generators are good for that. A random number generator could even pop a gem within the hex whenever it generates a barbarian human unit. Generating scenarios is more difficult. Sure, there could be a table that says the unit is popped next to an anthill with the gem placed on the other side; but then you'd have to also generate your anthill, because you couldn't guarantee that your RNG tables had previously generated the anthill you needed.

    I'm put in mind of ARPGs such as the Diablo series. There are scripted events, sure, but the majority of the gameplay is emergent - pieces of mapping are stitched together to create the impression of something happening, and certain rulesets are put in place to make things a decent experience. In order to get my toon from the entrance to the exit of level 4 of the cathedral I have to have a satisfying number of encounters so the exit is set at a distance and bundles of elite mobs are spread regularly so whichever path I take I'll be doing more than carving my way through like a knife through butter. The has mapping algorithms to avoid the exit being next to the entrance, but other than that it's just table lookups creating a meaningful-seeming dungeon level out of a tileset.

    I guess the big question we are asking ourselves is how hands-off the Titans are. My impression is that they seem to be pretty happy for the "game" of Erfworld to grind through a lot of chaff in order to find units special enough to attune to Tools. From the point of view of the game, who cares about Fumo? He's about as important as the ants.

    Edit: Capitalised "Titans."

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:44 am 
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    Ok, this story confirmed a lot of my personal theories.

    About the Titans. If they exist, then they are fucking assholes. (As if further confirmation had been needed). Hey, Chief Titan, your story is still very good but your world keeps sucking more and more with each update.

    About upkeep. I always assumed that speaking units needed other upkeep sources besides food to make their upkeep as food could at most halve their upkeep, barring special exemptions.
    So that got confirmed. It might be different for non-speaking units. If not, their survival rate would be even lower then barbarians. After all, the options would be, have the mining special and the brains to mine, be able to convert treasure from ruins or get tamed on your first turn.
    Otherwise, poof.

    About barbarian survival rates.

    About the random pop tables being random.

    About Sir Edelbert Spore being the luckiest barbarian on Erf (at least at the beginning).

    And now that the survival rate of barbarians is revealed, I do wonder (again) what destructive foraging does. See this thread: https://forums.erfworld.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14063. (New) thoughts anybody?

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:24 am 
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    tedav wrote:
    For the "forage gets only half upkeep" thing - I'm gonna hazard a guess that forage and hunting are different, and that a full belly including meat is likely sufficient.

    1) Forage has specific connotations, implying flora, not fauna
    2) Based on the rule for stews, bringing veggies gets you a bowl, bringing meat gets you multiple days worth - that implies that meat is worth significantly more nutrients.


    I think fanfic is safe if you make sure your barbarians are hunters, not just gatherers.

    Doubt it. Remember, "survive without warfare" is a major unsolved question in Erfworld. If it was as simple as "be a hunter-gatherer", that wouldn't be the case. And hunting for food is straightforward and obvious enough that you'd expect more hunter-gatherer barbarians and even informal tribes to exist if it was viable.

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:48 am 
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    El Chupacabra wrote:
    This feels like Erfworld Warlords pop in (as?) a sort of "quantum foam" where the rare ones that survive are balanced out in Numbers by the ones that don't last long.

    I wouldn't be surprised if when major characters pop the rate of barbarian warlord "failure to thrive" goes up dramatically to compensate. It never fully compensates so there's still always a price to be paid, but I suspect this is part of the mitigation action for balance -- Erfworld balances the popping of a major character with the opportunity for hundreds of smaller sides to chance upon a cheap roaming warlord.


    I thought the whole idea with Numbers went the other way around. If you popped at all you had a Number no matter how small. Higher Numbers had importance, but also a higher pull back to zero. The popping of hundreds of low Numbers doesn't give influence to the popping of higher Numbers. Kind of the idea of having a percent chance of a good number doesn't change with each bad roll. Though statistically it's more likely the next roll is better, with each consecutive bad roll.

    Units that matter also have more value among more units that don't matter. But we've not see if that relates to the unit's Number.

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