Erfworld Forums
https://forums.erfworld.com/

Book 4 - Page 187
https://forums.erfworld.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15279
Page 1 of 6

Author:  Titan [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Book 4 - Page 187

New One is up.

"Das Maschinengewehr 08" is used under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) license, attributable to Digital Library@Villanova University

Author:  Shai hulud [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

Where the hell is charlie getting german combat manuals from? The extra universal channels on the dish, or is he just summoning combat books from other planets?

Author:  Sunshine [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

Looks like German, anybody care to translate?
Otherwise I’m completely confused

Author:  Merilynne [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

I'm glad it makes sense to Ivan, 'cause it lost me. :)

Author:  Shai hulud [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

It looks like it's a pre-existing image, probably from a ww1 or ww2 era document. We might be able to get a complete translation if we can figure out which document it is.

Author:  Bandaid [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

hmm, jugding from the typefont, it is an old manual from somewhere during or between world war one and two. The text says: The shooting of (with) machineguns. I cannot read all the text because the english one is superimposed over but it deals with the proper laying of crossfires.

Author:  Ganurath [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

Enfilade: Direct a volley of gunfire along a line.
Defilade: Protect against enemy gunfire or observation.

Simply put, they're going to fall back to a position where they can fire from cover, and in so doing force the barbarians to break cover themselves.

Author:  MysticFlame13 [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

Shai hulud wrote:
Where the hell is charlie getting german combat manuals from? The extra universal channels on the dish, or is he just summoning combat books from other planets?


The extra universal channels. It probably works like the internet. Maybe he carnied in some findamancy to make a Google-like feature.

Author:  Bibliotheca Servare [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfilade_and_defilade

pretty darned neat tactics (for erfworld) from Ivan here. If he could learn this well from listening to Charlie, I suspect he and Parson are going to get along swimmingly, lol. I wonder if Ivan will be able to help the Tool understand Parson better...hmm.

Author:  Shai hulud [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

I suspect this is also why Claud's action figure had a Stormtrooper helmet. He has probably actually seen pictures of real German Stahlhelms.

Author:  Bibliotheca Servare [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

What Ganurath said. Heh.

Author:  greyhare [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

"Principle" not "principal", though.

Author:  balder [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

greyhare wrote:
"Principle" not "principal", though.


:oops: Will retconjure, thanks

Author:  Brother Mirtillo [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

Ganurath wrote:
Enfilade: Direct a volley of gunfire along a line.
Defilade: Protect against enemy gunfire or observation.

Simply put, they're going to fall back to a position where they can fire from cover, and in so doing force the barbarians to break cover themselves.

Nice. I suppose it's even better to enfilade from multiple directions simultaneously, though being outnumbered will make that tricky -- and the lack of the Wrench in a bedrock tunnel would make it impossible to whip up an extra tunnel.

I've learned a bit of German, though I'm sure it's no Charlie-esque level of insight. I'll see if I can scrape up a few lines.

Author:  Zonath [ Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

Shai hulud wrote:
It looks like it's a pre-existing image, probably from a ww1 or ww2 era document. We might be able to get a complete translation if we can figure out which document it is.


Das Maschinengewehr 08 : Auszug aus dem Unterrichtsbuch für die Maschinengewehr - Kompagnien / herausgegeben Friedrich von Merkatz.

Page 181.

Author:  Shai hulud [ Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

Thanks! Found it online. The full manual is here.

Author:  Brother Mirtillo [ Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

Shai hulud wrote:
I suspect this is also why Claud's action figure had a Stormtrooper helmet. He has probably actually seen pictures of real German Stahlhelms.

...took me a second to remember that Stormtroopers have been around since way before Star Wars. :charlie: "Let's learn something about war," indeed.

///

That first diagram has "zug" for "corner / nook," and "Kreuzfeuer" sounds like it'd be "crossfire." Bandaid already translated the title.

The rest is rather beyond my sentence structure, but I did look up a few translations just now. "Bild" simply means "image, picture, etc." and the first paragraph has an early "befiehlt" and a late "Befehl" and "befehlen" -- the last of which is the root of the other and means "to give an order," which sounds handy for firing discipline. (In fact, the Befehl of Kreuzfeuer sounds like calling out to start the crossed shootout. Hmm... Ivan might have learned how to set up a safe line of fire, but does he know how to do it without teamkilling?)

And the last paragraph's "ausführung" means "execution." I thought that meant in the sense of killing people, so I translated as many words as I could... only to find that it probably means "execution" in the sense of "getting the job done." More or less, that paragraph means, "the execution occurs in Images 27 and 28 -- specifically, always done in such a manner that the group of nooks stay next to one another and not where they'll act over the cross again."

...That sounds pretty much like what Charlie's diagram already shows. Go figure.

blue text = had to go to Shai hulud's link to see those words

///

So if a blog is a web log, and Parson's klog is a book log, then Ivan's clog could be... Eh, it's late -- the best I can guess right now is "spec log" -- which could mean his spectacles, his specifications, or both.

...of course, a clog could have a more obvious meaning like blockage or a shoe, but Ivan's no plumber, and Claud is in no mood for shoes.

Author:  Daevin [ Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

I'm a bored long-time native-german speaking lurker, so here's my translation of what's readable:

Top paragraph says:
"If this is the case, it must be shouted/yelled to the company leader - before firing starts, if possible - so that he [covered] command (the verb, not the noun) [covered]"

Lower part says:
"[covered] receives the command "Crossfire!" must follow it immediately. This is one of the few commands necessary for "Feuerleitung" (leading of fire? directing of fire? it's some old military term I don't know) that must be followed immediately.
The procedure will be done as in pictures 27 and 28, and always in a way so that the "Farben" (this means 'colors'... Unless I missread the first letter, but I can't make sense of it) of a "Zug" (a military unit, literally means 'train') remain next to each other and [covered] not cross again [covered]."

EDIT:
Brother Mirtillo wrote:
Shai hulud wrote:
I suspect this is also why Claud's action figure had a Stormtrooper helmet. He has probably actually seen pictures of real German Stahlhelms.

...took me a second to remember that Stormtroopers have been around since way before Star Wars. :charlie: "Let's learn something about war," indeed.

///

That first diagram has "zug" for "corner / nook," and "Kreuzfeuer" sounds like it'd be "crossfire." Bandaid already translated the title.

The rest is rather beyond my sentence structure, but I did look up a few translations just now. "Bild" simply means "image, picture, etc." and the first paragraph has an early "befiehlt" and a late "Befehl" and "befehlen" -- the last of which is the root of the other and means "to give an order," which sounds handy for firing discipline. (In fact, the Befehl of Kreuzfeuer sounds like calling out to start the crossed shootout. Hmm... Ivan might have learned how to set up a safe line of fire, but does he know how to do it without teamkilling?)

And the last paragraph's "ausführung" means "execution." I thought that meant in the sense of killing people, so I translated as many words as I could... only to find that it probably means "execution" in the sense of "getting the job done." More or less, that paragraph means, "the execution occurs in Images 27 and 28 -- specifically, always done in such a manner that the group of nooks stay next to one another and not where they'll act over the cross again."

...That sounds pretty much like what Charlie's diagram already shows. Go figure.

blue text = had to go to Shai hulud's link to see those words

///

So if a blog is a web log, and Parson's klog is a book log, then Ivan's clog could be... Eh, it's late -- the best I can guess right now is "spec log" -- which could mean his spectacles, his specifications, or both.

...of course, a clog could have a more obvious meaning like blockage or a shoe, but Ivan's no plumber, and Claud is in no mood for shoes.


Ninja'd, kind off?
You are mostly correct, "Ausführung" literally means "execution" (I couldn't think of that word while I translated it), but only as in "executing an order" or "executing a set procedure". It also means executing an executable file on a PC, for example :-)

I'm pretty sure you got "Zug" wrong, though. As I said in my attempt, it means "train", but can also mean "move" or "turn" in a game. In this case, I'm pretty sure its used in it's military meaning though: A "Zug" is a unit of troops (don't ask me what size, no idea) - I think it would be a 'column' of troops in English? - and the diagrams show how these troops should overlap their fire while being position next to each other on a battlefield.

I can translate the rest of the page from the original if anyone is really interested, but I don't think there more hidden meaning for speculation there :-)

Author:  Brother Mirtillo [ Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

Daevin wrote:
"If this is the case, it must be shouted/yelled to the company leader - before firing starts, if possible - so that he [covered] command (the verb, not the noun) [covered]"

"[covered] receives the command "Crossfire!" must follow it immediately. This is one of the few commands necessary for "Feuerleitung" (leading of fire? directing of fire? it's some old military term I don't know) that must be followed immediately.
The procedure will be done as in pictures 27 and 28, and always in a way so that the "Farben" (this means 'colors'... Unless I missread the first letter, but I can't make sense of it) of a "Zug" (a military unit, literally means 'train') remain next to each other and [covered] not cross again [covered]."

Vielen dank! I was using wiktionary and slipped onto the Hungarian translation of "zug" instead of the German one. Oops.

I assumed the one word was Garben (= sheafs?) instead of Farben, but those old-timey letters are tricky. Doesn't make much sense either way, but the rest of your translation is a big help, so thanks again!

...Now, let's see just how much of it Ivan really remembers.

Author:  Deo [ Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book 4 - Page 187

I bet the walls with those firing holes are made of bedrock.

Page 1 of 6 All times are UTC-04:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/