Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 105 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:52 am 
Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
Offline
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:20 am
Posts: 41
Machinegun companies in the German army in and before WWI were organized in 6 Machineguns crewed by 6 men each. A 'Zug' designates a sub-unit of a company. Platoon would be the correct term although the difference between a platoon of infantry, MG-teams or even tanks is mostly in the amount of soldiers present. in the infantry, a 'Zug' will be around 50 men, our MG-unit had 36 men per company with a 'Zug' made of 2 MGs with their crew, so 12 men per 'Zug'.

The word 'Garbe' just means 'burst of fire'. MGs were bursted weapons. So one shot means a bundle of bullets because it is hard to fire just one single bullet with an MG. And sniping is not their job, they should paint an area with ammunition to prevent movement or damage the enemy undiscriminatly. A 'garbe' could - in Germany - also means a bundle for freshly harvested wheat - harvested in a historical way with a scythe and later processed by flailing. It is a nice picture for bundling the bullets. The origin of the word in medieval times means: 'something, that was manually collected and put together' - from the ancient medieval german word 'garba'.

Nicely, the army primer for MG08 - which is the designation of this gun, shows the placement of the 6 guns to cover an area for suppression fire.

  • Tipped by 7 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:03 am 
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:21 am
    Posts: 17
    shangalar wrote:
    Zug in military terms is a squad.

    Not quite accurate. A "Zug" is a platoon (unit size as displayed in NATO joint military symbology: 3 dots). A squad (two dots) would be a "Gruppe".

    However, the structure of the Wehrmacht is different from today's Bundeswehr. We are probably seeing instructions for a "Maschinengewehrkompanie" (machine gun company), which - among other troops - consisted of 3 machine gun platoons. Each platoon had 2 squads with 2 heavy machine guns for a total of 12 heavy machine guns.

    Edit: Doc Desastro is of course right; WWI machine gun companies had 3 platoons with 2 MGs each.

    confusopoly wrote:
    The way I see it "Garben" means bundle in this case. Each squad has two machine guns so a bundle is the bundle of trajectories coming from one of the two machine guns. So the text says that crossfire means cross over with the fire from the other squads but not the fire from the individual guns in your own squad.


    In this context "Garben" means salvos. The text says that the salvos of one platoon need to be placed next to each other and must not cross.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:31 am 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:02 pm
    Posts: 321
    This update had me worried a bit that Claude and Ivan were Thinkagramed with CC, until I had time to think it over.
    -For one the dialog over the last image is the ongoing conversation from the top image.
    -Second, they wouldn't be speaking with an archon with an unpowered dish. It would have been Charlie talking directly, but only if he were to make direct contact with the dish. Power wasn't disconnected at CC to keep Charlie from the dish. So presumably he could be transported back to topside station (or whatever it was called), but it's not likely the case.
    -Thirdly the "'memeber?" line cements the notation that Ivan is trying to implement CC strategies he was privy to, as he was a vital person in building CC tower the way it is. Though the image of Claud being present during the training is still confusing. Claud is an architect of dollhouses, but likely didn't have to fully understand the training if it didn't involve his discipline. Maybe he was part of a linkup where he was only meant to be aware of how fortified firing positions are better setup. It implies Charlie had more use for Claude than just building guns.


    Last edited by guynietoren on Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:36 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day This user is a Tool!
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:35 am
    Posts: 2566
    Location: Wales... New South Wales
    coineineagh wrote:
    Mighty confused about the meaning of this update.

    All I can think, is that Charlie's origins might be Earth-based, or at least that he acquired his weapon schematics from a German WWI soldier. With a manual on weaponry, obviously.

    Or perhaps it was something more simple. Perhaps this "tome" was summoned as the result of some attempt to learn about the "ultimate" weapon.

    The Archon at the bottom of the page is gramming the manual (Hence the blue background). That's how they ended up reading it.

  • Tipped by 2 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:00 am 
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:03 am
    Posts: 4
    As others have said, this is an excerpt from a First World War German army manual for a machine gun known as the MG 08 (Maschinengewehr 08), the German army's standard machine gun in that war. The page specifically discusses when machine gun platoons should be ordered to use "crossfire". Strangely, though, it doesn't seem to mention one of the most important reasons to use crossfire: since the attacker is being fired upon simultaneously from two different directions, it will be hard for them to attack either point without suffering heavy losses, and it will also be difficult to find effective cover.

    The page doesn't actually say anything about enfilade fire or defiladed firing positions. Considering that it's not just in German, or even in German military jargon, but German military jargon written with the horribly confusing Fraktur typography which Germany still used at that time, I'll let that slide. :) Anyway, Ivan seems to know his tactics pretty well.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:30 am 
    User avatar
    This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Mined 4 Erf Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:27 am
    Posts: 875
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    The Archon at the bottom of the page is gramming the manual (Hence the blue background). That's how they ended up reading it.

    The bottom of the page is a flashback scene, with current-time dialog overlaid. Ivan is speaking to Claud right now, telling Claud to remember that time they learned this stuff from Charlie. The image shows the time that they actually learned it, in a meeting room with a single Archon.

    I believe she is using her natural Foolamancy to project the image for them.

    We must assume that Charlie obtained the image from the Arkendish's extra-universe channels.

    Colin Howell wrote:
    Strangely, though, it doesn't seem to mention one of the most important reasons to use crossfire: since the attacker is being fired upon simultaneously from two different directions, it will be hard for them to attack either point without suffering heavy losses, and it will also be difficult to find effective cover.

    We're only seeing part of page 181. They probably covered the rationale behind these tactics earlier in the book.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:33 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:28 pm
    Posts: 79
    Windscion wrote:
    Well, okay, it gives Chuckles an excuse to make his tower bigger. Because he's a guy.


    *AND* because, as a Carny, he understands the importance of appearances. Although the only ones who have ever seen the entirety of his tower (his Archons) also speculate that one reason it's so big is <ahem> because he's a guy.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:37 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:28 pm
    Posts: 79
    OK, there is enough tower stuff going on that I completely forgot about Wanda's difficulties. I think she'll be fate protected for a bit, but what are the odds that she trips over De(ad)Isaac and the newly sentient pliers?

    (heh, De(ad)Isaac) ;)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:26 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:03 am
    Posts: 155
    Seannibal wrote:
    OK, there is enough tower stuff going on that I completely forgot about Wanda's difficulties. I think she'll be fate protected for a bit, but what are the odds that she trips over De(ad)Isaac and the newly sentient pliers?

    (heh, De(ad)Isaac) ;)

    If there isn't at least one more Binding of Isaac reference to be squeezed out of that, I need to hang up my Rhymomancer's Hat.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:50 am 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 4:45 am
    Posts: 361
    Another interesting thing: Charlie has planned and trained with the assumption that other sides will have guns (or will rapidly get them after his are revealed.)

  • Tipped by 3 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:58 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day This user is a Tool!
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:35 am
    Posts: 2566
    Location: Wales... New South Wales
    greycat wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    The Archon at the bottom of the page is gramming the manual (Hence the blue background). That's how they ended up reading it.

    The bottom of the page is a flashback scene, with current-time dialog overlaid. Ivan is speaking to Claud right now, telling Claud to remember that time they learned this stuff from Charlie. The image shows the time that they actually learned it, in a meeting room with a single Archon.
    I am well aware that it was a flashback. I was just explaining how the reading it.

    Quote:
    I believe she is using her natural Foolamancy to project the image for them.

    It was a Thinkagram, with Charlie. All Thinkagrams use some measure of Foolamancy to transmit information. All those english words that appear in the second panel is Charlie talking.
    Quote:
    We must assume that Charlie obtained the image from the Arkendish's extra-universe channels.

    Or that whenever Charlie talks about propper gunmanship his face takes the form of a German field manual. I checked out the manual Shai hulud posted (and was the first person to mention), and I noticed a striking lack of diagrams drawn from an isometric point of view.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:59 am 
    Mined 4 Erf
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:21 pm
    Posts: 18
    Deo wrote:
    I bet the walls with those firing holes are made of bedrock.


    I doubt it since when linked they couldn't come up with a way to make the bedrock into a suit or anything else...I feel like for it to work in Charlie's capital it would break too many rules since bedrock wants to be at the bedrock level. Maybe it would work down where they are but they'd need the Wonky Wrench for that which they don't have (yet). Ideally sure you'd make them of bedrock but I don't think Charlie or anyone else has managed to work with bedrock yet or Charlie's capital would be made of the stuff instead of metal.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:25 am 
    User avatar
    This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:40 pm
    Posts: 1040
    Isn't one big problem with the plan that they only have one gun? Is Ivan expecting Claude to make a new one, or are they expecting to do Shockamancy bolts?

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:54 am 
    User avatar
    Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:28 am
    Posts: 9
    balder wrote:
    greyhare wrote:
    "Principle" not "principal", though.


    :oops: Will retconjure, thanks


    And I thought it just might be another one of Erfworld's puns.

    After all - we all know that Charlie follows the principal. With great interest.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:04 am 
    This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:20 pm
    Posts: 998
    Whispri wrote:
    As much as guns don't seem like her, they should probably give the rifle to Wanda: Her flunkies should still have juice for offensive spell casting.

    Claud and Ivan are full up on juice. Can they fabricate some more rifles and ammo on the spot?

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:13 am 
    User avatar
    Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! This user got funny with a rodent Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins For when you need it most Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Clubs Suit Pip Diamonds Suit Pip
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:56 pm
    Posts: 248
    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    As much as guns don't seem like her, they should probably give the rifle to Wanda: Her flunkies should still have juice for offensive spell casting.

    Claud and Ivan are full up on juice. Can they fabricate some more rifles and ammo on the spot?


    I'm guessing they would have to be linked to do it. Maybe DeIsaac can help.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:43 am 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:47 am
    Posts: 33
    Skull the Troll wrote:
    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    As much as guns don't seem like her, they should probably give the rifle to Wanda: Her flunkies should still have juice for offensive spell casting.

    Claud and Ivan are full up on juice. Can they fabricate some more rifles and ammo on the spot?


    I'm guessing they would have to be linked to do it. Maybe DeIsaac can help.


    Uh, asking Deisaac for help isn't really an option anymore...

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:53 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day This user is a Tool!
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:35 am
    Posts: 2566
    Location: Wales... New South Wales
    Bzro wrote:
    Skull the Troll wrote:
    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    Claud and Ivan are full up on juice. Can they fabricate some more rifles and ammo on the spot?


    I'm guessing they would have to be linked to do it. Maybe DeIsaac can help.


    Uh, asking Deisaac for help isn't really an option anymore...

    Yeah, especially since he left the Wonky Wrench in Spacerock

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:57 am 
    This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:20 pm
    Posts: 998
    Bzro wrote:
    Skull the Troll wrote:
    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    Claud and Ivan are full up on juice. Can they fabricate some more rifles and ammo on the spot?


    I'm guessing they would have to be linked to do it. Maybe DeIsaac can help.


    Uh, asking Deisaac for help isn't really an option anymore...

    Not necessarily. They stand a nonzero chance of stumbling across Isaac's body, with the 'Pliers conveniently at hand. For linking purposes, a Decrypted Isaac is just as effective as a "live" DeIsaac.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 187
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:10 pm 
    This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:20 pm
    Posts: 998
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Bzro wrote:
    Skull the Troll wrote:

    I'm guessing they would have to be linked to do it. Maybe DeIsaac can help.


    Uh, asking Deisaac for help isn't really an option anymore...

    Yeah, especially since he left the Wonky Wrench in Spacerock

    Let's not place too much importance on the necessity of the Wonky Wrench in this process.

    Bonnie told Ace that Claud was the one responsible for the creation of the rifles with the Auto-specialing feature. As far as we know, the first time Claud ever laid hands on the Wonky Wrench was when Ivan was instructing him in how to use it for repatriation. And while there may have been a Dish-enabled link to teach Claud how to fabricate a rifle with the Auto-special, he made so danged many of them that to suppose Charlie was involved for ALL of them is just implausible.

    As far as the ammo is concerned, that looks to be plain old Dirtamancy. Note that Sizemore is able to make rounds using nothing more than an original magazine of rounds as a template.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 105 posts ] 

    Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Argyle, Blackknight6464, KrenkoMobBoss and 13 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to: