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 Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 175
 Post Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Metallicat wrote:
https://wiki.erfworld.com/Battlespace

Despite the Wiki saying that each Battlespace gets its own possible turn sequence, we have yet to see a side having its turn start or end at different times for different locations.

Lots of our understanding of the mechanics is pieced together from the scraps that we get through the story. We don't have examples of everything, and we never will (because that would make the story really long and boring).

I just rewrote the Battlespace page earlier today. The previous version was completely wrong. Like, not even close. It talked about hexes and cities, as if a battlespace were a physical area. It even had a note at the top saying "this is all wrong". So, I got it as close as I could with the knowledge I currently have. If I messed up a detail or two, it's a wiki, so fix it. ;)

Quote:
any appearance of sides acting at the same time as others is just a deceptive artifact of our real-world perception of time being linear.


Maaaybe. This is one of those philosophical discussions that can't ever really be resolved to everyone's satisfaction, so I'll respond with my take. It's basically similar to yours.

Compare to how space and time work in our universe first. There is no such thing as absolute simultaneity. Whether two events happen "at the same time" depends on where you, the observer, happen to be in relation to them. If you move far enough away, or if you are moving fast enough, event A can appear to happen either before or after event B. A different observer can see the same events in a different order. (This is all well-known from special relativity.)

So, it seems that we get something like this in Erfworld, because we're an outside observer with an incomplete view of events. We might see a battle between two sides in one battlespace, and another battle between two sides in another battlespace. Which one happened first? It really doesn't matter. The question isn't meaningful, and neither is the answer. The fact that they're separate battlespaces means that they can't influence each other (if they could, they'd be a single battlespace). Events that can't influence each other have indeterminate ordering, just like in our universe.

This is much more, and much messier, than I was comfortable putting on the wiki page. I hinted at it with the reference to light cones.

So, instead of saying all this, and using language like "indeterminate simultaneity" all the time, I chose to simplify the descriptions. Different battlespaces "run" at the "same time". It's just a linguistic shortcut.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 175
     Post Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:42 pm 
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    greycat wrote:
    Something tells me she is going to attempt to go through the red portal, and Buck is personally going to stop her.


    Oh no, I just thought of something. Have we seen a blue portal?

    Red portal or blue portal?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 175
     Post Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:34 pm 
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    keybounce wrote:
    greycat wrote:
    Something tells me she is going to attempt to go through the red portal, and Buck is personally going to stop her.


    Oh no, I just thought of something. Have we seen a blue portal?

    Red portal or blue portal?


    Not that I can think of... Anyone else? Remember that, from the other side, it would be an orange portal.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 175
     Post Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:03 pm 
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    Nimelennar wrote:
    keybounce wrote:
    greycat wrote:
    Something tells me she is going to attempt to go through the red portal, and Buck is personally going to stop her.


    Oh no, I just thought of something. Have we seen a blue portal?

    Red portal or blue portal?


    Not that I can think of... Anyone else? Remember that, from the other side, it would be an orange portal.


    When Spacerock belonged to Jetstone, the portal was blue. I'm guessing their portal at Jetstone (the city) is also blue.

    Edit: Why on Erf would the other side be orange?

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    Last edited by Merilynne on Tue May 01, 2018 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 175
     Post Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:05 pm 
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    I was actually thinking of pills (the matrix), not actual portals (the game).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 175
     Post Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:26 pm 
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    keybounce wrote:
    I was actually thinking of pills (the matrix), not actual portals (the game).


    Ahhhh... I'm obviously a bit slow tonight. :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 175
     Post Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:32 pm 
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    greycat wrote:
    ripple wrote:
    Quote:
    There almost has to be some way to account for "fast moving side, late in natural turn order, that could suddenly decide to send units into this hex/area and become the final/sunset side" but I'm guessing that's in a part of the Book of Canon, Chapter "OCD details that don't help the Plot" we haven't seen yet...


    That's the Natural Predictamancy part. The game magically knows that Gobwin Knob won't attack, let's say, Hobbitm this turn, so they don't share a battlespace this turn, so GK and Hobbitm can take their turns simultaneously.


    I figure the definition of Battlespace "is the area around me that can affect me." In other words if that late moving team with fast moving units can reach me at all they are in my battlespace. When they end turn it becomes dusk for me. It may not be dusk for them if (for example) there is someone later in the turn order for them that can still reach them. Dusk isn't the same for everyone and you could imagine a single hex boundary that is dusk on one side and daylight on the other.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 175
     Post Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:56 pm 
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    Skull the Troll wrote:

    I figure the definition of Battlespace "is the area around me that can affect me." In other words if that late moving team with fast moving units can reach me at all they are in my battlespace. When they end turn it becomes dusk for me. It may not be dusk for them if (for example) there is someone later in the turn order for them that can still reach them. Dusk isn't the same for everyone and you could imagine a single hex boundary that is dusk on one side and daylight on the other.


    That doesn't jibe well with "Battlespace determinations were Natural Predictamancy" being the reason that turn start is determined by who you're going to meet this turn.

    I mean, there's no reason that the rules for turn start and turn end have to be related, but you'd think that if Erfworld could determine that you are (or aren't) going to meet a particular side this turn, and thus your turn start is (or isn't) delayed from dawn, there's no reason why the same can't be true for the relationship between turn end and dusk.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 175
     Post Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 1:33 pm 
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    The "Natural Predictamancy" part is necessary to avoid the entire Erfworld being one giant battlespace every turn.

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