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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 319
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:51 am 
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No one in particular wrote:
..?

Jack went wandering around TV unnoticed, without Juice. It was page 293, Tiptoe past Dewy Tulips.

The trick of it was that it was a passive sneakiness. "He lacked the juice to veil himself, so the ruler of TV could, by concentrating, locate him at any time to within a floor or a room." As long as Caesar didn't ask where he was, he didn't know where Jack was.

Big Think's got juice for a veil AND a distracted Ruler who's not going to stop and wonder "where are the invaders in my city?", so that's bonus on top of bonus. Doubleplus good!

On the other hand, Jack was not an invader in TV the city, nor did he enter it (at that time). It could be that a Ruler gets an automatic ping when a non-Allied unit enters a city hex owned by his side, a ping when an engagement is initiated etc - actions the Ruler won't notice by himself.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 319
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:55 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Has collected at least one unit Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
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    Nimelennar wrote:
    greycat wrote:
    Nimelennar wrote:
    The part I'm less sure of is if even a direct command from a Ruler overrides the mechanic that unled infantry always auto-attack if they meet a unit/stack from a non-allied side.

    It does. The unled troops in the city formerly known as Gobwin Knob had standing orders not to attack Jillian, and they did not attack her.


    Yes, but the text states: "Only a standing order would have caused the troops to behave that way." (Emphasis mine)

    I'm not a military wonk, but I thought "standing orders" were generally formalized, compiled into manuals, and drilled into troops at length.

    I'm not sure if the Erfworld definition is the same, but a "standing order" isn't generally one that you issue on-the-fly in the middle of combat.

    It could be they just mean an order issued to all troops, rather than how I understand the term, but the text doesn't make it clear.

    Yeah. In this context I would say a standing order is just anything given with no maximum duration. Those orders would then last until cancelled or new orders come.

    "Aggressively guard this hex."
    "Do not attack units from our informal ally."
    "Remain here."

    So in this case, "Do not attack Jillian, even at the cost of your life" could be a standing order for the whole side, or could have been given by Georgia at any point to all units in her hex, and units would obey them until they're explicitly remanded.

    In Erfworld, there'd be no reason to drill such a thing. Units would always know their standing orders, and obey them perfectly to the extent their loyalty and duty permit.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 319
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:00 am 
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    Nimelennar wrote:
    greycat wrote:
    Nimelennar wrote:
    The part I'm less sure of is if even a direct command from a Ruler overrides the mechanic that unled infantry always auto-attack if they meet a unit/stack from a non-allied side.

    It does. The unled troops in the city formerly known as Gobwin Knob had standing orders not to attack Jillian, and they did not attack her.


    Yes, but the text states: "Only a standing order would have caused the troops to behave that way." (Emphasis mine)

    I'm not a military wonk, but I thought "standing orders" were generally formalized, compiled into manuals, and drilled into troops at length.

    I'm not sure if the Erfworld definition is the same, but a "standing order" isn't generally one that you issue on-the-fly in the middle of combat.

    It could be they just mean an order issued to all troops, rather than how I understand the term, but the text doesn't make it clear.


    We never saw the order to GK troops given, but it might not have involved Maggie or hat messages delivering orders to commanders. The simple way would be for Stanley to issue orders for all units to not attack Jillian.

    Probably came up soon after the contract was made. Georgia could have issued such an order herself as well.

    We didn't see Charlie issue orders in TV, but given that he made the contract, it makes sense that he'd issue a no attack order when he turned them.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 319
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:43 am 
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    Just as an example of Erfworld using the "obey until countermanded" definition of standing order:
    Page 200 wrote:
    Anyway at some point, somebody had given this uncroaked warlord a standing order. It was supposed to explode a crap golem if it ever found itself... outnumbered. Yank. Boom.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 319
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:55 pm 
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    The really important question is: what the flip was Don's deal with tea? He's a vampire and a mob boss by signamancy. His side is full of vampires and 50s greaser signamancy. So where the boop do tea ceremonies come into that?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 319
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:09 pm 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    The really important question is: what the flip was Don's deal with tea? He's a vampire and a mob boss by signamancy. His side is full of vampires and 50s greaser signamancy. So where the boop do tea ceremonies come into that?


    While the side was run as a meritocracy, Don IS noble. Seems to be a common trait of noble or royal sides

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 319
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:09 pm 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    The really important question is: what the flip was Don's deal with tea? He's a vampire and a mob boss by signamancy. His side is full of vampires and 50s greaser signamancy. So where the boop do tea ceremonies come into that?

    I see Don's fundamental struggle as how he was torn between two worlds -- the Royalist world of Scripture and Tea, and the Meritocratic world. In the end, he chose Royalism. It didn't turn out well for him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 319
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:54 pm 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    The really important question is: what the flip was Don's deal with tea? He's a vampire and a mob boss by signamancy. His side is full of vampires and 50s greaser signamancy. So where the boop do tea ceremonies come into that?


    I keep reading and rereading the last two pages of the epilogue of Book 1, trying to translate it into an easy answer, and the best I can come up with is:

    While Don didn't like the idea of people getting respect they hadn't earned, he was, in all other ways, a subscriber to the Royal ideals. As listed by King Slately, among those are "Honor, sacrifice, dignity, decorum, station...loyalty, bravery..."

    He might not care so much for "station" as a Royal should. However, nothing he's said or done indicate that he is in any other way opposed to the ideals listed.

    Along with station, the tea ceremony as described is representative of both dignity and decorum, and the fact that Stanley doesn't live up to those two ideals in particular (or even try to) is part of the reason Transylvito joined the RCC in the first place. Tea is emblematic of Don King not being Stanley: that's why it's so important to him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 319
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:07 pm 
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    Nakedkali wrote:
    If Countess Cheri Maraschino's purse-flail is magically enhanced by Chief Caster Benjamin Franchise and she uses it as a ranged weapon, is she throwing money at the problem?

    Only if the casting incantation is "Sugar Daddy"

    :lol:

    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Last time he made a calculation using the Bracer, it started glowing brighter than usual. It is still displaying the numbers which recommended Parson link up with Roger and Vanna http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+3/285. 0.9913 .

    My interpretation of the"brighter glow" was that it was Roger's Foolamancy overlay of the actual readout. You're probably right that the bracer is still displaying numbers, but my thought is that they're not the Roger-Vanna-link calculation. They're battle calcs Parson was doing as he was running down the stairs (offscreen to the readers).

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