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 Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:16 am 
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Templar wrote:
yogomakeoshimi wrote:
ZOMG I hope Friday is not a skip....


I know, right?

I thoroughly enjoyed this update. Things are so tense right now, and it's great. I particularly liked how "organic" Maggie's decision trees are in this update. I wonder if that's a result of Parson's influence or Jed's.


I'm guessing her thinkspace is influenced by fear. Trying to bring her fears back into order.
It made me think of Little Red Riding Hood. Maggie was trying to get through the woods, unclear yet what grandmother's house might be, but the signamancy smells like a trap.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:18 am 
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    I do not remember when, but Maggie stole some juice left in the doll by Bill, right? And Jed just sent a little bit of juice to Maggie via the doll... so it may have held some of it.

    My bet is that the doll's gonna join the link and use that juice to send all the information that it has stored insofar to Parson. Now, Parson will know everything from everyone that ever touched that doll... and will know about the rape, the treason, the plot.

    Aaaaaand, as a grand finale, since Parson is the one casting the scroll and is RIGHT THERE with a turnamancer, a thinkamancer/eyemancer/whatmancer and a doll empowered by Jed... he will change the spell somewhow, accessing the memories of the traitors as if they were "written" inside of the mind of the doll... as if the actual portal to be hacked would be the one that holds secrets inside their minds, like the door that Jojo has on his mind, that holds his most secretive secret secrets.

    And this book may then be named "Doll's Dummy Day" or something.

    E.


    Last edited by Eclison on Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:45 am 
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    The Maggionette is going to step through the portal. That's where she is taking her purposeful step. It'll happen as the portal is kippi'd and the tower is awoken and Parson will realize he doesn't need to finish the spell.

    Or she'll slap the shit out of the Notorious RVC...

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     Post subject: Xeno's Day
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:23 am 
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    This has really been the Infinite Day of No Juice, but it'll read faster in retrospect once it is all in the archives together.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:46 am 
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    Obviously the next step for Maggie to link up with Jack and Benjamin, so they can duke it out with Roger/Vanna/Parson rock-em sock-em robots style.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:32 am 
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    benana wrote:
    Obviously the next step for Maggie to link up with Jack and Benjamin, so they can duke it out with Roger/Vanna/Parson rock-em sock-em robots style.


    I'm thinking that the most effective move to neutralize RVC's shenanigans would be for the Makaleka to shove him through the portal.

    This would not only instantly break the link but take Roger Dodger out of the hex, preventing him from redirecting the damage from the broken link, thus causing all three participants to be equally incapacitated-- but alive and recoverable. If Fate decided to put its thumb on the probability scales again, Roger could even end up taking the brunt of the damage.

    My concern with this whole scenario is what happens to Parson if the link is disrupted while he's still holding the spell trigger in abeyance. Consider what Digdoug went through under similar circumstances; the spell demands a target from the caster. And I believe as far as we know, there is only one possible target for the (unmodified) GTFO scroll.

    So if the link is disrupted, will the spell also be disrupted-- or will it "auto-fire" on Parson as it's intended (and likely the only valid) target?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:44 am 
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    guynietoren wrote:
    But still sounds more likely to be under Bills influence, than Bunny's.

    Very very unlikely. The update (particularly the last bit) is written from Maggie's POV. The Makaleka took the initiative is letting go, which means it is acting under direction of someone other than Maggie. But if Bill were controlling the Makaleka, Maggie would have sensed the intrusion. And Jed would lose control the instant Maggie is out of the circuit. The only option left that I can see if that the Makaleka is acting on its own steam.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:20 pm 
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    The more I think about it, the more I think the Makaleka is acting on its own. Look at Maggie's face of surprise, and the look of determination on the doll's face.

    And if MAGGIE has helplessness as a hot button issue, think about how much more so the doll feels about that, given that it was under Bill's complete control and had to suffer his depredations directly.

    If Makaleka has an opportunity to act to protect someone that the people it's closest to (Maggie, Jed, Jack) really care about, my guess is that sparks are going to fly against Roger.

    (This is assuming Bill is either still in his cell or has his attention diverted elsewhere, and is unable to force the doll to do his bidding.)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:43 pm 
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    Aion wrote:
    benana wrote:
    Obviously the next step for Maggie to link up with Jack and Benjamin, so they can duke it out with Roger/Vanna/Parson rock-em sock-em robots style.


    I'm thinking that the most effective move to neutralize RVC's shenanigans would be for the Makaleka to shove him through the portal.

    This would not only instantly break the link but take Roger Dodger out of the hex, preventing him from redirecting the damage from the broken link, thus causing all three participants to be equally incapacitated-- but alive and recoverable. If Fate decided to put its thumb on the probability scales again, Roger could even end up taking the brunt of the damage.

    My concern with this whole scenario is what happens to Parson if the link is disrupted while he's still holding the spell trigger in abeyance. Consider what Digdoug went through under similar circumstances; the spell demands a target from the caster. And I believe as far as we know, there is only one possible target for the (unmodified) GTFO scroll.

    So if the link is disrupted, will the spell also be disrupted-- or will it "auto-fire" on Parson as it's intended (and likely the only valid) target?


    We've seen linked casters go through a portal before, though (like at the end of book 1). Seems as though that shouldn't break the link... or if it does, it opens up a host of other questions (how simultaneously would they need to step through? Does that mean the link degrades over time with distance, instead of immediately failing? Could this be used in an attack, where a master thinkamancer and shockamancer link up with a third low-level caster, who steps through a portal and unleashes a mighty spell, without risking the other two?)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:05 pm 
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    I agree that the Makaleka is most likely acting on her own, but it could be that Maggie is controlling it.

    In Hvs.tCF 178 Bunny noticed the hide golem/doll had moved on it's own, exploring it's surroundings, and after examining the doll's strings noted that it "did have a glimmer of awareness all it's own." After that, Bunny worked to improve the doll's ability to see and gather information. During that session, Bunny also gave Maggie "praxy" over the doll, which equated to her being "more present in the doll, in some fashion," Hvs.tCF 179 and able to control it's movements. Of course Bunny had to provide the juice for the transfer to be successful, by sending it through the doll to Maggie, but I think Jed might be able to do the same.

    We assume that Jed has unlimited juice from the portal, and we know he can route some to Maggie, maybe because she's a thinkamancer or because she had a hand in his development. It's possible that he can use the same strings connecting him and the Makaleka to send it enough juice to enable Maggie to act through it.

    The Makaleka has shown other signs of independent action, though, like when she was leading Parson and Jack to Maggie. Maggie sent her on the mission, but "for much of the doll's walk, Maggie was not actively aware." Hvs.tCF 183 It appears it was the Makaleka that took the initiative to push the Moll into Vanna's chambers in order to get P & J (lol) safely past. That indicates a willingness to protect Parson (and Jack) from harm, at least.

    Either way, I believe it's less likely that Bill is controlling the doll and more likely that either Jed, Maggie or the Makaleka itself is making the doll move toward the portal. To what end, I have no idea.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:27 pm 
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    Hrmm "purposeful stride TOWARDS THE PORTAL" is an interesting choice of words here. Not "in the direction of the portal" or "towards the linked units" but specifically "towards the portal" which implies to me it's not going to be joining the link or starting fisticuffs with anyone in it because the doll's target is the portal itself, not the people near it.

    I assume the thing on its mind is "helplessness" so I'm guessing it feels that with the link done it's helpless to do anything about that (certainly if breaking said link risks Parson) so I'm guessing the doll's move (which I am assuming is under Jed's direct control, the doll's own control as a function of a piece of Maggie's string caught up in it like the lion, or Maggie's subconscious control) will directly involve the portal.

    This leads me to assume the move will be walking through said portal. Don't know why or to what end (proving its already kipi'd maybe? Getting someone from the MK? who knows) but that's the only move that I can see it talking that follows from the description of "towards the portal"

    Or maybe I'm over-analyzing minuscule word choice. But as far as I know, nobody on this forum has EVER gotten obsessed with a very specific interpretation of a very specific word choice and formed insane theories around it. So that seems unlikely.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:45 pm 
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    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    The more I think about it, the more I think the Makaleka is acting on its own. Look at Maggie's face of surprise, and the look of determination on the doll's face.

    And if MAGGIE has helplessness as a hot button issue, think about how much more so the doll feels about that, given that it was under Bill's complete control and had to suffer his depredations directly.

    If Makaleka has an opportunity to act to protect someone that the people it's closest to (Maggie, Jed, Jack) really care about, my guess is that sparks are going to fly against Roger.

    (This is assuming Bill is either still in his cell or has his attention diverted elsewhere, and is unable to force the doll to do his bidding.)


    Bill is free to move, and I'm pretty sure that Jack noticed him leaving the cell, but followed Vanna as he felt her to be the real threat to track. RVC concealed Bill's movement from Caesar, who otherwise would be aware that he has left the cell. We don't know where Bill is now or what he plans to do. Last seen assembling the Bunny Doll.

    I'm sure his unmentioned plan is going to have an impact, but don't know how soon. But assuming that the Makaleka is acting either under Jed's control, or more likely following Jed's advice and Maggie's information, I'd think her goal would be protecting Parson (and thus the side). How she will do that remains to be seen.

    Jack and Maggie do have time to say something to let Caesar and the others know that this is a trap, but won't have time to do much before the action inside the link happens.

    Interesting element is that the Makaleka has a link to Jed and thus juice, and could perhaps act within the linkup. Or at least, perhaps, get inside Parson's head while within it, much as Wanda did with Lilith when Charlie was inside her head. Jed presumably has infinite juice, but I don't know that he can push much through Makaleka to do anything. Maggie was amazed that he could make it happen at all.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:47 pm 
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    By Roger and Vanna’s previous conversation with Bill, and Jed saying the makaleka had been messed with, I have a sneaking suspicion that it is being controlled by Bill at this exact moment. And so hopefully Maggie has a bit of juice and can attack it to at least cause a delay or confusion in their plan. Also maybe Jack can get a bit of juice from Jed as well to cause some shenanigans before it’s too late and Parson is cast out of the frying pan and into the fire once more.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:20 pm 
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    WooSai wrote:
    "You know what Makuahine maybe the fool guy..." should have a comma between "Makuahine" and "maybe" making it "You know what Makuahine, maybe the fool guy..."
    It's hard to parse without the comma.

    A question mark would probably be better.
    Also, there needs to be a comma before "Makuahine".

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:41 pm 
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    Finn MacCool wrote:
    WooSai wrote:
    "You know what Makuahine maybe the fool guy..." should have a comma between "Makuahine" and "maybe" making it "You know what Makuahine, maybe the fool guy..."
    It's hard to parse without the comma.

    A question mark would probably be better.
    Also, there needs to be a comma before "Makuahine".

    I think it is supposed to be hard to parse. As in he is talking really fast without pausing, you know what I'm saying ?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:17 pm 
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    Another excellent update. Cliffhanger intensifies.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:40 pm 
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    If you look at the picture and draw a straight line from Makaleka to the center of the portal you will see that this puts her on a "collision course" with Vanna and RVC. Either knocking them over, into each other, or even pushing one or both of them through the portal.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:48 pm 
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    To me it seems obvious that the last two updates were explicitly showing the reasoning of Maggie and Jack why they are *not* acting. At the same time, it was shown that Bill was asked/ordered by Vanna to just stay in his workshop and be ready until needed. Unless they already planned a specific act by Bill that they referred to, that would not seem to include an action through the doll - he wouldn't need to be in his workshop for that anyway.

    On the other hand, during this update Jed has been shown to be growing increasingly frustrated with the refusal of Maggie or other units to act to prevent what he clearly considers as enemy action. Therefore it seems quite obvious that Jed is once again taking control of the doll to do what others are apparently unwilling to do: stop the casting of the scroll.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:23 pm 
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    silverplated wrote:
    On the other hand, during this update Jed has been shown to be growing increasingly frustrated with the refusal of Maggie or other units to act to prevent what he clearly considers as enemy action. Therefore it seems quite obvious that Jed is once again taking control of the doll to do what others are apparently unwilling to do: stop the casting of the scroll.


    Yeah, I could buy that, too, as it would also explain Maggie's confusion and the look of determination on the Makaleka's face.

    It would also bolster the "animated towers as extensions of the world system and/or Fate" hypothesis we have going, with the mass animation of them by Big Think as additional support.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 149
     Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:23 pm 
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    All the main characters are in Capital cities, Deiform Isaac is going around unlocking the sentience of towers, the Maggie hide-golem just took an unprecedented act.

    Now I've been waiting for Prince Albert to suddenly discover that attacking a sentient city is darn near impossible, but what if we're watching the first, reactionary, actions of Transylvito's tower through the Maggie hide-golem?

    Also regardless of whether this is the tower's actions, I can't wait for the TV tower and Jed to have some sort of weird interaction through the hide-golem.

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