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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:10 am 
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Any one else notice that the portal golem hand is tugging on Cla- Dollamancer's string? And more importantly appears to be unraveling?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:12 am 
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    Well there are some interestong signamancies for Charlescomms prospective new tower avaiable:

    Skynet has already been mentioned and so has HAL.

    So what else:

    Machine City of Matrix (we have had matrix signamancy already)

    Shodan from System-Shock (sort of Evil Jed)

    Deus (The twisted Renraku Arcology AI) from Shadowrun which is my favorite:
    - Business AI, fits Charlescomm signamancy
    - Gone Mad, acive in the Matrix (sort of future internet but detacheable), fits the dish and stuff
    - DEUS (Kafka and Nietzsche signamancy) + (DEUS is latin for god. Their pantheon fell the titans)
    - Shadowrun has a nice mix of tech and magic to which this world setting is changing. Erfworld goes cybertech..mhahaha

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:23 am 
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    Apparently you folks aren't aware that Cerebro has been turned into an android in the X-men comics before.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:38 am 
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    With a living tower, what if Charlescomm itself awakens and attuned to the Arkendish in place of Charlie? That could be much more terrifying as Charlie at least holds back and applied his weaponry and power with precision. A fanatical city doesn't care about precision but instead pure self-preservation. Big link might create something so big and powerful that Charlie becomes someone who needs to be rescued.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:57 am 
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    Lord of Monies wrote:
    With a living tower, what if Charlescomm itself awakens and attuned to the Arkendish in place of Charlie? That could be much more terrifying as Charlie at least holds back and applied his weaponry and power with precision. A fanatical city doesn't care about precision but instead pure self-preservation. Big link might create something so big and powerful that Charlie becomes someone who needs to be rescued.

    Oh god. Looking at your avatar, Lord of Monies, it just occurred to me that a living Charlescomm Tower would probably deposit all of Charlie's gems into the treasury.


    But there is something that needs to be corrected: It is not Charlie's tower that Claud and Ivan are trying to make a golem out of, it's his portal column on the Magic Kingdom side.

    Should Ivan and Claud succeed, things are going to get very weird in the Magic Kingdom now that Charlie has a talking portal.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:35 am 
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:49 am 
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    Naigraza wrote:
    Any one else notice that the portal golem hand is tugging on Cla- Dollamancer's string? And more importantly appears to be unraveling?


    That illustration is just a variation on this Escher drawing (spoiler'd for size concerns):

    Spoiler: show
    Image


    Given that, I'd say it's not depicting an actual event, but rather, represents how closely tied the golem and creator are when string is involved; the golem receives a part of what is essentially the caster's DNA. What I can't quite tell for certain is whether or not the caster actually gives up a small piece of his/her own string (obviously without cutting it entirely), or just uses that section to copy the relevant information onto the golem's "string snippet". The word "imprint" isn't clear in this context. If it is an actual piece of string that the caster is giving to the golem, the caster is becoming just a tiny bit unraveled. My guess, though, is that it's more copy/paste and not cut/paste, otherwise the caster's string would have to heal or regenerate the lost section as they learn and progress, which would make strings way more inherently biological than I'd considered them to be up to this point.

    I also think MagDoll could be a golem with learning capabilities, besides the column-golems (gol-umns? We'll know if a sentient Storybro refers to the 'Dish as its "precioussssssss").

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:08 am 
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    Is it only me, or Claude's speech a reference to Joyce carol Oate's "Gun Accident, an Investigation" from "The Doll-Master and other Tales of Horror"?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:23 am 
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    Goodness, what an update :P I did like seeing the difference between what Dirtamancer saw and what Dollamancer saw.

    So I was correct previously that Claud was going to object to linking based on his past link making guns and how he wasn't happy with their existence. His little speech was nice, especially how he planned his dramatic pause. Too bad he didn't get to use it, or really have much choice in the matter.

    I wonder (and hope) that the order Dollamancer placed on the tangle of threads has helped in some way, maybe making the entity known as BT more coherent and cohesive, less manic pixie dead author?

    Aww, it seems BT will disappear even with juice :'C

    I also found it interesting that Dollamancer was so inquisitive, and was continually trying to read the patterns of information regarding other disciplines. I wonder if that just happens to be a trait Dollamancer share.

    I really don't see this going anywhere good? I don't see a city willingly helping enemies of its current owner, as Jed itself seems relatively loyal and protective. And I don't see the story heading to a living city taking over the dish and becoming the new big bad either; I honestly see the cities as just a bit impersonal (I don't know if that's the right word), basically they don't have much stakes in the story itself, and unless it had a way to both take over the dish and keep Charlie alive, wouldn't being disconnected to the dish croak/kill him? If it kills him he can't have an ultimate showdown with Parson. And if he can live through it I feel having a city for an antagonist would also lessen Charlie's threat level if his own city can undermine him.

    So I have no idea what's gonna happen but I trust Balder with his story, so I'm sure it'll be good.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:59 am 
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    Alright, I'm calling it. Living Tower plus Hacked Portal Column plus Arkendish plus BigThink/SmartMaterial (not to mention a Dirt and Dollamancer) are going to culminate in an AM/HAL/GLaDOS entity.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:17 am 
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    If they can activate the tower from the MK side of the portal and have it become alive in Charlescomm, I wonder if Jed can also do anything on the MK side?

    Squall83 wrote:
    Oh my god they're going to breathe life into Charlie's Tower! Why can't they at least wait until the pact of non-aggression is over? I know that the new unit won't be GKs much like Jed isn't either, but afair the penalty might trigger anyway, because intent and all that.

    We did just have an update recently where Jed pointed out that he's not a unit. They're also not technically damaging anything of Charlie's. I don't think this dings the treaty at all.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:19 am 
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    So a Dollamancer can weave together the Strings.

    Dollamancy-Thinkamancy is indeed extraordinarily potent, it does seem, indeed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:29 am 
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    Last update I wrote
    DukeBG wrote:
    So yeah, they absolutely did not need Claud to get juice at all.

    Also, I kinda want to hear the speech that Claud was going to make. "I may not be X, but..."

    And I got my wish fulfilled, the new update starts with Claud's speech! Maaaan!

    What if I wish for a thousand Shmuckers? :P

    P.S. I totally love Claud. He's such a pure, good soul, seeking knowledge. Being continuously screwed over by almost everyone. This update is probably one of my new favorites. He even helped Big Think A LOT by untangling its mess, and what does it repay with, forbidding the auxillary knowledge?

    -----

    Jade wrote:
    I really don't see this going anywhere good? I don't see a city willingly helping enemies of its current owner, as Jed itself seems relatively loyal and protective.

    I agree with all of your post, but wanted to add. Jed was "created" (for the lack of better word… "awakened" maybe) by GK Dollamancer and GK Dirtamancer. And he's friendly to GK. This new entity (I'm supporting the idea of it being GLaDOS/HAL/Shodan) is being "created" by Claud and Ivan who are definitely not CC units. Who knows. We'll see.

    -----

    ftl wrote:
    Wooow. Claud is convinced that the tower will obey his will but... ...Jed isn't exactly obeying Ace. He's working for GK, but not really in a master-slave kind of way.

    We've actually never seen Jed/Ace interaction. Or Jed/Sizemore. Ace and Sizemore were definitely brainwashed by Great Minds to erase/hide their knowledge about "creating" Jed from them, but it's possible that Jed remembers and cares about them fondly. Plus yeah, master-class casters now!


    Last edited by DukeBG on Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:14 am, edited 4 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:30 am 
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5wFKv02sIk

    Seriously. This is Salarian levels of dumb boopery.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:50 am 
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    Something my professional eye was immediately drawn to: On the MK side, all the portals (or at least a huge number) are connected through the bedrock tunnels via those collars.

    That makes the MK portal columns a network. In particular, one already interconnected by "strings" of a sort.

    The epitrees from that concept quickly branch out, but the main one I'm wondering about is whether "consciousness" could go viral-- whether the effects of adding a string to one MK portal column would effectively propagate to all of them.

    And right behind that-- would the MK portal tunnel network (PTN-- gotta have an acronymn for anything techno!) allow the Charlescomm tower and Jed to communicate?

    Would it allow them to fight?

    Edited for typos

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:54 am 
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    Ok, that is absurd.

    The fucking Great Minds are crazy. Period. They are giving Charlie a powerful hack without knowing what will it do. Yeah, great idea.

    I dont understand them, I dont understand why is Wanda doing this, I dont understand where is this going or were this stupidity came from, and I dont understand what is Rob doing with his history during the last couple of updates.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:05 am 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    But there is something that needs to be corrected: It is not Charlie's tower that Claud and Ivan are trying to make a golem out of, it's his portal column on the Magic Kingdom side.

    Should Ivan and Claud succeed, things are going to get very weird in the Magic Kingdom now that Charlie has a talking portal.
    That's a valid observation but we don't know what distinction, if any, there is between the two ends of a portal column. The way they've been discussed seems to indicate that each portal column in the MK corresponds to a column in a given capital site, whether or not the portals are active. The confirmation that Erf is a globe and the assumption of the State 8 elements taken from the GMTTA suggests that the columns go all the way through Erf, with the MK on one side and the map hex grid on the other, thus the column end in the MK is physically part of the same column that comes up in CC. I'm not sure how the GMTTA arrived at this belief, but I wouldn't be confident it's wrong.

    Also proper narrative economy suggests that an unexpected third-party event like Deiform should end up being more of a setback than otherwise to the protagonists. In total, the collapse of the Temple and the deaths of a couple of the Great Minds there could be seen as payback for killing Claud and Ivan before they could get back and fix CC's tower. That leaves over a dozen casters outstanding, killing the archons and saving Wanda and co. in the tunnels probably paid off most of that. So it's pretty close to time for the State 8 to turn out to be not the happiest coincidence ever for GK. Awakening Charlie's portal and having it serve GK could go over the line...unless it starts stacking up contract violations uncontrollably (one contract violation would hardly matter, what with GK's treasury converted to gems) or something like that.

    It wouldn't be a game ender for Charlie, he can probably just move his capital to one of the sites in his dead zone (there should be a couple dozen), raze CC, and then move back (unless the portal column itself is permanently corrupted) but losing his big Bad custom tower would be a huge loss (and thus a pretty big win for GK). It would also be a kinda lame ending to this whole plot thread. Maybe a battle of Lilith type sequence as the State 8.2 Material and Charlie have to wrestle for control of the awakened tower, but this time Charlie wins, much to the dismay of GK. A bonus of that would be that with the linked casters on the MK side of the portal, there is a good chance of them surviving and escaping back to Spacerock.

    P.S. we've seen that the bunker was powered by Shocked wires leading from the hacked CC focus collar, but I've seen no indication that any other portals are hooked up to it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:13 am 
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    WarFAN wrote:
    Ok, that is absurd.

    The fucking Great Minds are crazy. Period. They are giving Charlie a powerful hack without knowing what will it do. Yeah, great idea.

    I dont understand them, I dont understand why is Wanda doing this, I dont understand where is this going or were this stupidity came from, and I dont understand what is Rob doing with his history during the last couple of updates.

    Big Think is desperate.

    It knows it's coming apart at the seams, literally it seems; it knows its time is very limited; and it's desperate to destroy Charlie before that happens. The bedrock armour was its best idea, but now that it's been shot down, it's clutching at straws. The tower golem doesn't seem to be the best idea in its... umm, Mind, but it's the best idea they've got.

    Not saying it isn't a horrible idea; But desperate people make questionable decisions.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:15 am 
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    Why not fix the Shocked connection to the 'dish as well, so that the newly sentient tower not only has the Arkendish affixed to it, but an endless source of power?

    That can't go wrong.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:23 am 
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    Whispri wrote:
    I fear this page can be summarised with one short, terrible phrase: Hey guys, watch this!


    And when the Minds had looked upon Jed and knew the Titan's column was a well of unending juice, they Thought, "What would a portal column say if it could think?"

    And the Thought followed, which lead the Minds to speak, and the Minds said: "Hold my beer."

    Edit: Delta Grey beat me to it.

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