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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:42 pm 
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Scorf wrote:
I had a curious idea. When a side dies, it's portal deactivates. Right? If so, could Wanda use the 'pliers to 'decrypt' a 'dead' portal? Now knowing what we know about hacking active portals, that raises some interesting possibilities. Would such a portal only allow decrypted units through? Supply a new form of shockamancy 'power' never seen before? Hmmm...


Would be an interesting idea, but would it tie into the Capital at all? We know that cities are aware enough to "like" being fought over, if knowledge gained from Jed means anything. It just sounds like another kind of unit, one that seems to sit above other units that are "stacked" with it. If a unit can have self-awareness, it doesn't seem unlikely that it CAN'T be decrypted, if you were able to get around the fact that disbanded cities (not sure how else you croak one) don't seem to leave anything behind to decrypt. I could be wrong, but I don't remember anything about it.

Likely, a portal would be an extension of the city it is linked to, and part of it, which is why it leads to there. So 'decrypting' a portal may require doing something to the associated city unless we know what a portal without a city looks like. And we have revealed that cities have more strings than first thought.

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Last edited by JamesFrizell on Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:42 pm 
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    When Parson attempted to 'gram Isaac, BT could have done a mind scan on Parson and downloaded his Flower Journal contents right then-- straight from the source. Access to the Journal itself is not necessarily required, though the State 8 could likely just as easily have blown right past the Signamantic ciphers. It's also possible that BT is still keeping a mind's eye on Parson and reading in "realtime"; it's not clear that the deIsaac face in cosmic thinkspace is limited to a single venue of observation.

    I'm not sure why the juice==shockmancy would be a surprise; it's all but stated in some of the descriptions of how a tower is spelled up. Reimposing a "biological" constraint within a unit for released shockmancy appears to be the trick. Given that each magic discipline seems to have "Manhattan Project" secrets, I wonder if rejuicing is the atomic bomb of the Shockmancers?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:43 pm 
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    So BT went from wanting to go out with a bang and have it mean something, to finding a way to survive.

    So, is 8.2 a theoretical explanation to Ivan, showing that they need Claud? Or did the second moon show that offscreen, while getting Ivan on board, they also just added Claud and his moon rose next to Ivan? They certainly have the ability to deal with both at the same time.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:44 pm 
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    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    So can someone explain the whole traps-deactivating thing to me?


    It's an allegory to what the Great Minds see themselves doing. By upholding the secrecy of their discipline (and getting their members to Think Alike due to the whole 'being able to link' thing) they see themselves as preventing the destruction of everyone due to crazy magic hacks.

    I mean, consider how the various crazy link-up spells we've seen in the comic are used. Uncroaking a Volcano, Kingworld, the Collide-A-Scope, making guns etc. If that was way more common the continual warfare that Erfworld goes through would be a lot more destructive.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:45 pm 
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    Corrupt User wrote:
    Strange that Loj Banhammer hated his Shockamancer so much in spite of being a philo-caster. As shockamancy is raw juice, Rusty Trombone should've been the most respected of his casters instead of the least, even if Shockamancers understand the least of how to use juice with any sort of finesse.
    I'm not sure that Shockmancy is universally understood to be raw juice and the number of entities capable of channeling it into something more useful than destruction is probably not much greater than 2. Also, Rusty had certain... propensities that probably caused him to be respected even less than his discipline would suggest.
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    Also, why does everyone think Deissac will go to Charlie's tower of Cool Storybro? It'd make more sense narratively for Deissac to head to Jed...
    The Big Think needs the Arkendish to last more than a single turn. Also, it's not clear to me why he would care about Jed right now -- the Great Minds knew of Jed's creation.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:47 pm 
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    Althernai wrote:
    Wow, that's a whole lot of background information. Confirmation of State 8 (which became 8.1 when Ivan joined), Shockmancy being raw juice and whole lot more.

    So if Erfworld is mostly round, does that mean that "night" is not universal? For example, if a caster uses the Magic Kingdom's portals to move from one side of the world (where it's day and his turn) to another (where it's night), would that allow him to move and attack sleeping units or would his move drop to 0 when he entered the "night" zone?

    Also, were the Thinkamancers pre-programmed with the desire to maintain the status quo or is this something that somehow arose within their little clique? Comm Tower and guns aren't related to Thinkamancy in any meaningful way, but the Big Think still refers to them as Bad. Who or what made them think of themselves as "thought police" and not just for Thinkamancy, but for all of magic?


    There is an awful lot going on here, despite there being no actual action as yet.

    As best as I can tell, despite the world being round, dawn happens at the same time everywhere, just as night does. They happen at the same time in both the outside world and the Magic Kingdom.

    This is confusing as there is apparently a sun, but its rising and setting does not work like on Earth, or Stupidworld. I don't know how it can be the same everywhere, but then again, the whole time moves in turns things breaks Earth physics too.

    Thinkamancers think about things, and one of the things they think about is how the world works, and how it should be run. They have far more effective time and brainpower to apply to this task than any other class. I suspect that whenever the Temple was built, the whole "police the world" mission was also Decided.

    The Magic Kingdom may or may not have been a wild unruly barbarian warzone until this sort of organization happened. We haven't seen much discussion of the actual purpose of the MK, nor talk of it from the Titans.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:48 pm 
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    I'm dubious the Great Think will succeed because they revealed their plan too soon to the audience!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:54 pm 
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    greycat wrote:
    You know what else is an infinite Shockmancy (ergo infinite juice) source? The Arkenhammer.

    Oh, I'm well aware. I pitched that as a possibility many months ago. Its why I think Stanley running drills with a pike is so important. The Hammer might be needed elsewhere in the near future.


    Anyway, Big Think wants to hack a portal. It so happens that that lines up with what Wanda wants.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:56 pm 
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    If Ivan was like the moon in the sky... does that make him a big pizza pie? Or is that amore?

    But wait, the text said that there was no rhymamancy to it...

    edit: Ok, I admit that was weak. But some one had to make that reference.


    Last edited by Anomynous 167 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:00 pm 
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    Suspicion confirmed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:03 pm 
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    Iron Isaac, Bedrock Man....

    Look at the signamancy, ya'll! Lookamancer, thinkamancer, a little foolamancy... He's obviously "Eye-ron Man"

    I'll show myself out

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:05 pm 
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    A thought occurs to me, and I apologize if it's been mentioned before. THIS is how you make a self-sustaining city. Flower Power. Have a Florist summon food. Food pays for upkeep. Infinite juice.

    There we go, provided that Flower Power can make anything that can be used to offset upkeep, no matter the cost, You now have total self-sufficiency. Post-Scarcity society right here.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:09 pm 
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    Don't get excited about Bedrock Man. If there is anything that this book's text updates have taught us, it's that the really cool thing in the final image won't happen.

    I can't convey how incredibly frustrated I am with that...indulgence.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:11 pm 
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    Yay for invincible iron man armor. I am gonna go ahead and assume it's a shout out to my recent fanfic rather than a long planned story point and simple coincidence.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:23 pm 
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    lol, Stark imagery, just got that.

    qualiyah wrote:
    The most natural interpretation here is just that it's a bit of a mixed metaphor. I mean, it works: the point is that the moon gives off light only by reflection, and the moon orbits something else, and the Big Think is the sun in the first analogy and the earth in the second analogy.

    But it was enough to make me pause and wonder whether I'd missed something. For example, is there in fact a sun that Erfworld revolves around (or even one that revolves around Erfworld), or do they get their light some other way?


    Probably a mixed metaphor. i'm gonna guess Erfworld probably has at least a sun and moon, because "a world has those". Like, common-sensical thoughts apply, with weird implications everywhere because it's abstractified for game reasons. There's ground and sky and water, all with their own somewhat arbitrary rules; Parson probably included the ideas of the sun and the moon in design, because they have impact on tactics (easier to sneak at night, units go to their beds, &c.) IIRC turns end at sundown, but it has implications for escaped prisoners like Parson, Jack, and Maggie in TV before. i bet gwiffons crow at dawn/first turn, because a rooster would...or, maybe crowing only happens at chicken farms? Except, they only mentioned hens, so maybe roosters are unnecessary...? Game abstractions are weird.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:23 pm 
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    Huh -- I could've sworn I knew of a comic where we saw the moon, but it was this one from Book 1, and the best it's got is nocturnal light illuminating the clouds. [shrug] It still looks nice. [re-reads pages] Got it! Moon confirmed!

    Longform wrote:
    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    So can someone explain the whole traps-deactivating thing to me?


    It feels like that's the analogy BT is using to explain the Thinkamancers' crusade against Badness to Ivan in Rocker terms.

    Indeed, and to extend the video-game angle, I'd say the Minds considered themselves to be the debuggers of Erfworld. They scanned the source code, tested the programs, and looked for exploits. Any lingering cheat codes or penetrable walls that the less-enlightened users might've found later, they either patched or obscured.

    Erfworld: where even the Titans decided, "That's a feature. Ship it. Working as intended."

    Fcannon wrote:
    Very leery of the bedrock suit working out. Charlie has some of Charles Xavier's Signamancy, and what's his recourse when he comes across a foe who's physically unstoppable? Granted, a Thinkamancy showdown between the Minds and the extremely loyal eldritch sea monster the size of a city would be cool.

    I'm not an X-Men scholar -- when did Prof. X use a sea monster? (What I have seen is the "X-Men: Evolution" episode where it took a team of at least seven X and Brotherhood mutants to unlatch Juggernaut's helmet, ending with Toad to yank it off.)

    [EDIT: Aaaaaand I just realized you were alluding to Charlie's description of his own eldritch artifact. As a consolation prize, I now have a fragment of an idea for a crossover fic of X-Men with Aquaman -- Prof. X rallies the land heroes, and Aquaman rallies everything else.]

    Althernai wrote:
    So if Erfworld is mostly round, does that mean that "night" is not universal? For example, if a caster uses the Magic Kingdom's portals to move from one side of the world (where it's day and his turn) to another (where it's night), would that allow him to move and attack sleeping units or would his move drop to 0 when he entered the "night" zone?

    Eh, there's always the Pratchett "Discworld" model where the world is flat, and the sun and moon orbit said world. Because magic.

    The rest of your post, I'd need more sleep to process.

    Arci wrote:
    8, Dirtamancy resets... interesting, it appears that the reset of healing and such at the beginning of a turn also counts as a form of dirtamancy, could there be some amount of relation between dirtamancy and healomancy?

    Likewise another post with a lot to chew on, but this simpler bit has a bit of precedent. The Digdoug story says that cleansing is natural Dirtamancy. I found that intriguing but a bit lacking; it didn't make sense that healing would be covered within that. Maybe it isn't covered by that. Maybe the start of a turn has natural Dirt- and Healomancy, but the-caster-formerly-known-as-Ivan is most familiar with just half of that sensation.

    MostTornBrain wrote:
    This upgrade makes me pretty certain Charlie is originally from StupidWorld. How else would he have known how to teach Ivan how to do proper electrical wiring and such? All his StupidWorld relevant knowledge, combined with the Wizard of Oz (in the original Frank Baum stories) being from Nebraska, it seems he is most likely a StupidWorlder.

    I'm with Gameslayer989 on the extrauniverse channels being the key, but even with that, it would have taken a lot of effort to learn.

    So what Parson needs is someone with a signamantically-intuitive understanding of circuits. He could ask if anyone knows a Shockmancer for hire, preferably one named Tess Nickla, or perhaps Ed Tomison. Or if all else fails, Parson could trust the discovery of electrical energy to a certain bespectacled curly-gray-haired caster nearby.

    WindStruck wrote:
    Really looks like Isaac will take on a form similar to Mega Man or Iron Man. Buster cannons that fire rounds of pure shockamancy, anyone?

    ...That would be worse than Iron Man. Laser cannons just mean blowing everything up. But remember that Charlie (especially Haffaton Charlie and really especially storming-Castle-Lilith Charlie) has already used string manipulation to emulate other disciplines.

    If we get someone who can emulate all 23 disciplines on the fly including blowing everything up, then gg.

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    Last edited by Brother Mirtillo on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:27 pm 
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    So since shockmancy is juice, I wonder if theres some specialized caster form of martial arts like taichi that can absorb the blasts of shockmancy from other casters. Or like lightning from firebenders that can get redirected by absorbing it into the body and then releasing it into a different direction.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:30 pm 
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    The Big Think sees Parson's notes, including a tank idea, and composes the idea of bedrock armor for itself.

    I'm gonna call it the Think Tank.

    No matter what you non-Team Cap people say.

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    Last edited by HighJumper on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:35 pm 
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    The Great Minds are idiots. They fail to realize that perhaps the Titans did NOT intend for the world to stay in Medieval Stasis but expected it to evolve like StupidWorld and other worlds have.

    That is the same argument I have heard from those who are unable to deal with the 21st century IRL: Things were better when they were simpler back in the 1800's (or even further back).

    You cannot keep a world in stasis like that, powerful organization or not.

    Many of those 'bugs' or 'exploits' or 'hacks' in the program might be "Hey, this is the 'next level' in the Erfworld Metagame!"

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 267
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:12 am 
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    Gameslayer989 wrote:
    Charlie uses "hack" and "mod" interchangeably with "Carny". Those aren't the words someone would know simply for being popped as one, and I don't think they are the sort of terms you'd pick up on watching Earth TV. Sounds like one of those extra-universe channels provides access to the internet, and Charlie spent a lot of time there. Maybe Parson can defeat him with a link to TVTropes :D

    I'd just like to point out that Sizemore knew "mod" back in TBFGK 36: "Don't stay up all night modding your eyebook." I guess that's makes Sizemore's mouth... dirty.

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