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 Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
 Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:05 am 
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Knavigator wrote:
Alternative: They can't travel through portal shards and this is some crazy long distance Foolamancy.

Other Alternative: Deiform Issac shreds their strings.

THIS SO MUCH!

I had wondered if the Archons were foolamancy, maybe fewer Archons making themselves look a bigger threat, or an Arkendish thingie...

But Deisaac could be fooling them too. It has inherited power from a fusion with the power to reach through bedrock. :think:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:16 am 
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    In response to the "can Charlie communicate with them?" (if someone hasn't replied to that already); he Thinkagram'd Claud and Ivan before their strings were cut.

    Also, strings were cut, meaning magic does penetrate bedrock.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:18 am 
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    Axiom wrote:
    Super Easy

    1. Force Ivan to hand over the Wonky Wrench. Toss Wonky Wrench through Portal chunks. Toss Wonky Wrench back through regular Portal. Call a dirtamancer and tell them that the Wonky Wrench lets them dig through bedrock.

    2. Force Ivan to hand over the Wonky Wrench. Have the doll dig through bedrock since it can apparently wield the Wonky Wrench when Charlie is focusing his Arkendish power on it.

    3. Force Ivan to hand over the Wonky Wrench. Toss Wonky Wrench through Portal chunks. Call the barbarian casters and tell them that carnymancy lets you dig through bedrock. Wait.

    As you can see, my bet is that Charlie is going to demand the Wonky Wrench extremely soon. It's basically key to many of GK's plans at the moment.

    Any plan that takes the casters to the GK trio rather than vice versa reveals Charlie has a military foothold in the MK, and will lock charlie into an unshocked connection to the dish once Casters are banned from working with Charlie (or at least for a fairly long time).
    It might still be a good trade for charlie, but it requires him to make a sacrifice in one of the places where he isn't likely to think rationally.

    The thing is CC doesn't actually have good options here.
    In addition to the previously mentioned contract potential costs, Charlie is at risk of revealing his military presence in the MK and/or losing the only quick way to repair the shocked disk connection that he's dependant on.

    Maybe he's focused on getting the wonky wrench, but he doesn't have a easy way to get it. So he's gonna offer another Charlie Parley and try to get it the very easy way. And knowing Wanda that will get him the very hard way.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:24 am 
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    ShaneTheBrain wrote:
    They're hesitant to shoot. If Charlie was flat willing to drop 15 mil to rub out these guys (CHEAP) they could and should have just ambushed them from veil.

    Honestly I am hard, HARD pressed to to understand why that didn't happen already.

    1- Charlie immediately closes the massive and awful information leak potential of everything Claud, Ivan, and now Wanda knows.

    2- Charlie can easily spin it that he helped stopped the dread Wanda, making him seem a lot more like the good guy- if he even tips his hand at all. He could leave Wanda's X-eyed corpse down there.

    3- Charlie could immediately reclaim the Wonky Wrench.

    There must be SOMETHING they still need.

    Or there could be some other Fate-based thing. My intuition tells me that it is difficult, or maybe even impossible, for Attuned Tool Users to croak each other, even via their minions. It could be some safeguard built into the tools to keep Titans from accidentally croaking each other. Sort of like a Manton Effect for tools?

    Or it really could be that Fate just is mad at Charlie and is clouding his judgment and that of his Archons. That's a little too deus ex machina for my tastes.

    How did they get down there? Squeeze through some portal shards? They were permanently stationed there as a sort of garrison from the first? I like that one OK. It would also explain who cleaned up the guns.

    Maybe Charlie can't communicate with them, through bedrock, with his unshocked Dish?

    Ha! These Archons might be the garrison, and in all the confusion Charlie never updated them on the specifics of all the stuff that's happened in the last... turn? Is it still the same Turn as the Battle for Portal Park? Maggie and Jack still don't have their mana back, so I'm thinking- yes. This is one Hellalong turn.

    These Archons might not have any idea of what they are supposed to do. (Which, if Charlie CAN communicate with them, he should reasonably be screaming CROAK THEM NOW.)

    The information and power these three have is worth 500 mil or more.
    My guess is that Charlie wants to make up with the MK. He'll offer them the escaped convicted witch, plus the murderers of the Great Minds (with murder weapon in hand), to show he's A Good Guy, Really. Charlie's about to win a big battle, but he won't win the war unless Parson is gone (and he can't 100% rely on Roger's infiltration for that). And he will have trouble winning if his abilities are restricted by being punished, and on the bad side of the MK.

    Plus, it's Bad For Business.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:40 am 
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    Yay, more prisoners! (Okay, even if they're not really because contracts)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:42 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
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    Fylwind wrote:
    Is that Tondelayo gunning Wanda? If so, I wonder why she/Charlie decided to make this so personal.


    I'm surprised that Charlie was willing to risk Tondelayo on this. If they fail and Tondelayo croaks, Wanda will have the corpse of a Fox Fiver to decrypt.

    As for how the archons might fail: I hypothesize that the Wonky Wrench can be used to sever Grandiocosmic strings from a distance.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:22 am 
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    Luitz wrote:
    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/117

    What makes "surrender" a keyword vs. the "don't move, hands out to the sides"? Ugh, contract contrivances...


    Surrender has automagical implications in that one becomes a shackled prisoner.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:05 am 
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    Wanda has a very small impossible to shoot unit in her possession.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:37 am 
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    Best possible solution: Wanda thinks REAL HARD about Headmaster Roger, who opens up a thinkagram with audio and visual to Wanda, showing Charlie already has archons with guns deployed in the MK. Janis explains the signamancy of extrajudicial killings by criminals and that Charlie must be made to answer for the crime, half the MK attacks Charlescomm on their own accord, the other half get KISSed when Stanley figures out that he can.

    Next best: Wanda opens the thinkagram, says "Oh and now everything you do will be seen be all two hundred casters in the Magic Kingdom. Would you believe it, Two hundred! Why didn't you just shoot me before I could do that?"
    Archon: "I find that hard to believe. Charlie wanted you alive to sell you back. It's worth the contract penalties for the chance to make things better."
    Roger/Janis: "Wait, what? Part of the terms of the agreement included penalties? None of the parties had disclosed that to us before!"
    Natural Signamancy:"Choose the city"
    Parson:"Wat."
    Parson:"Charlie, you have units occupying my city. Disband all of them at once or pay me."
    Charlie:"Boop. Okay, I've disbanded all the units in... 'your' city'.
    Parson:"Wrong. There's still a ruler on the roof. Deal's void, I don't feel like negotiating and I'll take that ."
    Parson:"Stanley, I need you to change the capital again, so I can send Wanda through it to kill another ruler. We'll have to pay him but we should be able to afford it pretty easily."
    Decrypted Charlie"???"
    Decrypted Charlie"???"
    Decrypted Charlie"???"
    Decrypted Charlie"Profit"

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:54 am 
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    multilis wrote:
    Surprised not mentioned yet... we have a prediction on Wanda by Philip here: http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+3/256
    Predictomancers may be setting up an ambush to disrupt Charlie's current plan.

    This is a very real possibility. I also am surprised no one in this thread considered the meaning of the predictions of Philip Roffercy for the events that are unfolding.

    Does nobody remember the secret dealings of the turban predictamancer (whose name eludes me right now)? The predictamancers were involved in the spell that brought Parson to Erfworld too!

    If the predictamancers are not misleading the rest of the casters and Roffercy is not lying, that would mean that Wanda won't be brought to Charlescomm by the archons. Many people here believe that Charlie may use Wanda to blackmail Claud & Ivan, but that can't be true if Roffercy is honest.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 5:47 am 
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    Great Snot wrote:
    multilis wrote:
    Surprised not mentioned yet... we have a prediction on Wanda by Philip here: http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+3/256
    Predictomancers may be setting up an ambush to disrupt Charlie's current plan.

    This is a very real possibility. I also am surprised no one in this thread considered the meaning of the predictions of Philip Roffercy for the events that are unfolding.

    Does nobody remember the secret dealings of the turban predictamancer (whose name eludes me right now)? The predictamancers were involved in the spell that brought Parson to Erfworld too!

    If the predictamancers are not misleading the rest of the casters and Roffercy is not lying, that would mean that Wanda won't be brought to Charlescomm by the archons. Many people here believe that Charlie may use Wanda to blackmail Claud & Ivan, but that can't be true if Roffercy is honest.


    The Great Carniac, Marie's friend. Marie's actions also may be rather important soon, as she certainly acted like she expects Wanda to be free in the MK to use the croaked troops from ICFYS.

    Still, it doesn't really suggest how that will come about. But Wanda's reaction definitely doesn't look like the "Oh, crap!" of Claud and Ivan, so I think she has something up her sleeve.

    Does Charlie want his city fixed enough to actually make a binding deal with Wanda? If he just wanted to croak her and the boys, they'd be dead already, so there has to be some catch here. Simply taking them prisoner doesn't guarantee any cooperation.

    Does Wanda now have any juice to cast? Claud does, but I don't know how much he can do.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:04 am 
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    Metallicat wrote:
    The Great Carniac, Marie's friend. Marie's actions also may be rather important soon, as she certainly acted like she expects Wanda to be free in the MK to use the croaked troops from ICFYS.

    Thanks, i read up on him on the Wiki and guess who's also on the same page of his first appearance, there to help Parson?
    Spoiler: show
    Image

    At this point i am convinced that he's fooling the rest of the casters.

    Metallicat wrote:
    Still, it doesn't really suggest how that will come about. But Wanda's reaction definitely doesn't look like the "Oh, crap!" of Claud and Ivan, so I think she has something up her sleeve.

    Maybe she just trusts in fate. We've seen her don that expression before when she was captured and she didn't have a plan then.

    Metallicat wrote:
    Does Charlie want his city fixed enough to actually make a binding deal with Wanda? If he just wanted to croak her and the boys, they'd be dead already, so there has to be some catch here. Simply taking them prisoner doesn't guarantee any cooperation.

    Does Wanda now have any juice to cast? Claud does, but I don't know how much he can do.

    Well, Charlie's got some reason for not croaking them, that's for sure. Seeing as how Maggie did noch have any juice after being released, Wanda shouldn't have any either.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:17 am 
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    Didn't Ivan imply (or outright say) at some point that the portal shards are one-way... you can pass through to the side, but if you come back you are up top? Otherwise they should have been expecting Archons and they seem surprised.

    I'm still waiting for Parson to actually have an idea this book. The only thing he's really done was the stealth golem idea. Think about it - Wanda/Lilith, Jack (with the veil), Marie (who wasn't even on their side initially), Maggie/Jed, heck even Ace with his attempt to talk to Claude and Bonnie with her attempted deal with the thinkamancers have done way more than Parson has this book.

    Even Sizemore has been more useful with his protections on the Spacerock portal room. And making bullets. And Stanley went and got the Juggles. So Parson has done less good for his side than basically ANY of the other named characters other than perhaps Zhoppa.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:19 am 
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    Great Snot wrote:
    Metallicat wrote:
    Does Charlie want his city fixed enough to actually make a binding deal with Wanda? If he just wanted to croak her and the boys, they'd be dead already, so there has to be some catch here. Simply taking them prisoner doesn't guarantee any cooperation.

    Does Wanda now have any juice to cast? Claud does, but I don't know how much he can do.

    Well, Charlie's got some reason for not croaking them, that's for sure. Seeing as how Maggie did noch have any juice after being released, Wanda shouldn't have any either.


    Maggie was out of juice when she was captured. As far as we know, Wanda hasn't spent any juice at all since Book 1.


    Also, I'm guessing the Archons are really there. Wanda's Croakamancer senses would be able to tell her if they lacked internal orgrans - unless Charlie a) knew about such senses and b) can put that much detail into an illusion.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:32 am 
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    Radagast wrote:
    Didn't Ivan imply (or outright say) at some point that the portal shards are one-way... you can pass through to the side, but if you come back you are up top?

    Can't remember that. But thinking about it, how would you even come out of a shard? I mean, you go into a shard or the subterranean portion of a portal and you come out of the portal in the capital. But if you go into the portal in the capital, how do you choo se to come out anywhere but on the MK surface?

    Radagast wrote:
    I'm still waiting for Parson to actually have an idea this book. The only thing he's really done was the stealth golem idea.

    Well he did secure an alliance with Transylvito (with lots of Luck).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 8:36 am 
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    Caprice wrote:
    Almost certainly won't happen, but I love the idea of Charlie having Wanda shot, and ending up on the hook for billions' worth of Decrypted units.

    ...
    Charlie floated in the void of Signspace, staring down a "progress bar" currently sitting at half full. The list of assets read:
    124 MILLION SHMUCKERS
    ALL GEMS
    ALL MAGIC ITEMS
    ALL NON-SPEAKING UNITS IN CITY OF CHARLESCOMM
    ALL ARCHONS
    CITY OF CHARLESCOMM
    FARMS (6, VARIOUS LEVELS)
    CHARLESCOMM TO ASSIGN ALL INCOMING TRIBUTES AND LOAN REPAYMENTS TO CLAIMANT
    OVERLORD CHARLES TO TRANSFER ALL RANDS TO CASTER(S) DESIGNATED BY CLAIMANT
    OVERLORD CHARLES TO PROVIDE CASTING SERVICES FOR CLAIMANT ON-DEMAND
    OVERLORD CHARLES TO PROVIDE BATTLE PLANNING FOR CLAIMANT ON-DEMAND
    CHARLESCOMM TO TURN OVER CONTENTS OF "BLACK DOSSIERS", DESTROY ALL COPIES
    1 CLOTH GOLEM, LEVEL 1

    Trembling with fear and outrage, Charlie directed another thought at the claim.
    "THE ARKENDISH" appeared, and the bar jumped all the way to the right... almost. A tiny sliver of red still remained at the far right of Charlie's field of vision. At this, the Overlord of Charlescomm's composure finally snapped.
    "What?! What more do you
    want?! What else IS there? Do you want my chair, too?!"
    ...
    "ONE CHAIR, ARMORED" appeared on the claim list, and the sliver of red... narrowed to just a wisp, but remained.

    You know I kind of wonder if this is how Wanda is going to get out of this situation. Not by being killed but by threatening to Turn herself and all her units to Charlescomm so that he's forced to give away his entire treasury just to pay for it. Or worse threatening that they have to kill her to stop her and then explaining exactly what would happen if they did. Combine the contract penalty with the Croakamancy power of being willing to die to accomplish your objective and the added power of actually dying and I can see Charlie backing off in that particular game of chicken.

    Alternatively remember how Croakamancy lets you know everything about the targets biology and can be used for torture? I wonder if Wanda doesn't have ways of hurting the Archons that doesn't count as engaging them or hurting them (ie dealing damage) which in turn means that while they're helpless to stop her beyond standing in her way she can torture them as much as she likes without triggering the penalty. :parson: :wanda: :twisted: :wanda: :parson:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:25 am 
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    Radagast wrote:
    I'm still waiting for Parson to actually have an idea this book. The only thing he's really done was the stealth golem idea.


    Oh, but Parson actually had an idea. And a good one, fort that matter:
    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/124

    Clearing the bussiness side of Charlie´s portal. I want to believe that this was the first step to order a full retreat to Spacerock of every Caster, Archon and himself.

    Of course, Artemis and Wanda pulled rank and made a very bad call.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:28 am 
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    ShaneTheBrain wrote:
    Sort of like a Manton Effect for tools?

    You get a shmucker just for that Worm reference.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:30 am 
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    Quote:
    "I'm still waiting for Parson to actually have an idea this book. [Lots of things Parson has enabled, encouraged, or inspired his people to do.] Parson has done less good for his side than basically ANY of the other named characters other than perhaps Zhoppa."


    A good leader - no, a great leader - doesn't have to come up with ideas themselves. That's a singular path. It's mathematically unproductive. You get your greatest return by getting everyone you lead to come up with ideas instead, and then doing what it is necessary so the group turns its efforts to determining which ideas are the best and then getting them accomplished. You multiply your effect that way. Parson has done exactly what a great leader should do. The reality of great leaders is at odds with the Western hero myth where one guy saves the day, but that trope is ... kind of immature.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 114
     Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:43 am 
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    Shai hulud wrote:
    That's five mil a pop. Would he do it to try to hit Wanda or his former casters? Even knowing about fate?


    Charlie needs those casters. He needs them desperately.

    While he has plenty of guns stocked up, he has no dirtamancer to make ammo. The pseudo-electronics of his tower are busted, and he needs them fixed. The only one who can fix them is in that cart.

    Man, this is getting incredibly tense. Well played Charles, but your not out of the woods yet.

    /addition

    Oh, and those 15 million are nothing to the treasury of Charlescomm. If killing these three would solve his problems, they'd already be two piles of dust and a slowly cooling corpse.

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