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 Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:35 pm 
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I don't have time here to explicate the fundamental principle of all law enforcement. Some people prefer to remain ignorant, and while I can't say that's okay, it's not like I have a magic wand to get people to confront things they'd rather not know.

Of course the same thing applies to people who think that a valid response to anyone else having the potential to injure them is to go hostile on them without any other provocation. In fact, the level of delusion necessary to the one is frequently found as the root of the other.

To say that the leaders of the MK are acting "reasonably" is to deny that there is any component of actual reason involved in being "reasonable". It is to tacitly admit that Buck can do as he likes because he's the "only one" present with a gun. Which is stupid because he is NOT the only one present who can crit people by shooting them, he just has a slightly better gun. Not a dozen or a hundred times better, either. Maybe three or four times better, at a stretch.

Buck is like a guy who writes 2x2=6234.87641 and sets out on an infinite money generating scheme based on this 'insight'. Sure, if 2x2=6234.87641 (or any value other than 4) and all other rules of inference still apply, you could definitely make infinite money by exploiting that fact. But that doesn't make it a "reasonable" course of action. That doesn't mean that, because he wrote 2x2=6234.87641, all the evidence points to it being true and there is no reason to suspect it isn't. If shooting people simply because they have the ability to harm you if you don't kill them first is a reasonable activity in your eyes, then you have no place in civilized society or even in savage society.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:47 pm 
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    You know, from the perspective of most in the magic kingdom, the Decrypted are kind of like an intelligent zombie apocalypse. I'd probably be dusting them as fast as possible, if I were in their place -- particularly if they believe that the Decrypted are all just clones of Wanda's mind wearing corpses and their habits like a disguise.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:48 pm 
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    Yeah, Buck, I hope you get choked to death.

    Gotchu in a stranglehold baby.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:09 pm 
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    Count_to_10 wrote:
    You know, from the perspective of most in the magic kingdom, the Decrypted are kind of like an intelligent zombie apocalypse. I'd probably be dusting them as fast as possible, if I were in their place -- particularly if they believe that the Decrypted are all just clones of Wanda's mind wearing corpses and their habits like a disguise.


    It's worse than just that. Wanda, the progenitor of the apocalypse, just escaped through the bedrock, which should be impossible and no one can follow her. Then all the Thinkamancers are killed, a turn or two after betraying her in the trial. And they know (or at least think they do) that Wanda has no problem croaking and decrypting free casters without provocation. Meanwhile, they're currently holding her favorite units prisoner awaiting execution, which certainly counts as provocation. And they may know that she can remotely repatriate the Decrypted, and they don't know enough to know she needed Thinkamancy and the Arkenpliers to do that.

    Honestly, with all the different ways they should be terrified of Wanda's escape, I'm surprised more casters aren't on board with the whole execute the prisoners before they become an enemy force (again) thing.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:11 pm 
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    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    Except that the mistake is not waiting too long to start the execution, but executing them at all. Even if they'd been able to execute Wanda, they should have made an effort to avoid angering Parson, or appearing needlessly cruel. And with Wanda free...this is a moment to recalculate the risk/reward ratio.


    This is the moment to make Wanda an offer that they'll release her units, as long as she and the units pinky-swear to leave the Magic Kingdom and never come back. That's probably the most peaceful outcome they could hope for at this point.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:25 pm 
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    EpicCrab wrote:
    And they may know that she can remotely repatriate the Decrypted, and they don't know enough to know she needed Thinkamancy and the Arkenpliers to do that.

    If I remember correctly, while there was testimony that Wanda repatriated Lilith from afar, they discounted this testimony. They believed it more likely that Gobwin Knob violated Magic Kingdom neutrality by sending a unit through Charlie's portal to repatriate her. So, they either did not believe that information or pretended to in order to place blame on Gobwin Knob for initiating the sequence of events that led to the Battle of Portal Park.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:27 pm 
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    Drest wrote:
    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    nyysjan wrote:
    And the protestant doctrine does not actually make it just (we don't imprison shoplifters for their lives if they refuse to repent).
    That's because if someone shoplifts and refuses to repent, we gun them down in the streets. Prison is for people who give up. Right or wrong, that's how there even is such a thing as prison, because the alternative is death.


    where the hell do you live that shoplifters are "gunned down in the streets"? :lol: :lol: :lol:


    In the good ole US of A.

    You think the Black Lives Matter movement is a hobby?

    Let's say Troy is caught shoplifting. At no point during this story does he cooperate in any way with the law (unrepentant). First he elbows the shopkeeper out of the way. Then he runs off down the street. Cop sees--gives chase.

    Cop tries to exert verbal authority. Fails. Misses with a TASER(they're not any good at range). Wild chase. Several other cops get into it. They finally trap Troy. It takes plenty of effort to cuff him because he: Will. Not. Give. up. That's the scenario, unrepentant. Turns out Troy has a couple of bench warrants out for some serious stuff. He, at least, has a reason to run.

    Two days later the cop sees a shoplifter he thinks looks a lot like Troy. The guy doesn't hear the cop say, "Stop or I'll shoot!" (Or he thinks he can get away)
    Krakow!!!

    If you want to discuss this further create a seperate thread.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:37 pm 
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    Mrtyuh wrote:
    So, they either did not believe that information or pretended to in order to place blame on Gobwin Knob for initiating the sequence of events that led to the Battle of Portal Park.

    I think they didn't believe her then, but that it's the kind of thing they'd believe right now, since they're going to start panicking more as they realize how out of their control things are.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:48 pm 
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    ADB wrote:
    This is the moment to make Wanda an offer that they'll release her units, as long as she and the units pinky-swear to leave the Magic Kingdom and never come back. That's probably the most peaceful outcome they could hope for at this point.
    That might work as a starting bid. They'd have to be willing to actually significantly negotiate, because while GK might have had a reason to accept that deal when Wanda's butt was on the line, right now that deal gives GK nothing they can't just take.

    This is why it's good to start with persuasion. The other party is never more likely to accept a marginal deal "to keep the peace" than when you haven't yet given them a reason to want war.

    I find it a commonplace of people who are being irrational that they want to make an argument based on a premise then deny that premise when it is inconvenient to their next argument, without admitting that their previous argument was wrong. In this case, demanding that the trial verdict was just based on the impossibility of remote repatriation, while acting to secure that 'just verdict' against precisely that impossibility. In other words, they were willing to bet Wanda and all the decrypted's lives on that being impossible, but not willing to stake their own on it. Meaning that they didn't believe it was impossible at all, they just found it convenient to argue based on that premise because no other would give them the conclusion they had already decided to achieve.

    P.S. On a slightly related note, if Wanda does suddenly remember how remote repatriation works despite not having the 'pliers or a Thinkamancer, and Lilith were suddenly free, she might grab Buck's rifle by her sheer awesome (and a duck-roll-jump-grapple thing I vaguely recall learning) but she will still be surrounded by a lot of potential hostiles. Which is where Janis comes in. If Janis casts Time! Out!! or whatever, then Lilith can repatriate the rest of the prisoners and they can get out of town (probably hauling the tripods with them, unless that drop-top design comes into play to prevent it...not hard to imagine with Buck and Joe right there). So it could be a combined effort to accomplish a result that neither remote repatriation or Flower Power could accomplish alone.

    It will still require Lilith to not shoot Buck in the head. That would get Janis in (more) trouble. If Lilith and the gang leave without shooting anyone, Janis can defend her actions as saving lives. That defense gets a lot weaker for everyone Lilith shoots, even Buck.


    Last edited by Chiu ChunLing on Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:01 pm 
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    ADB wrote:
    This is the moment to make Wanda an offer that they'll release her units, as long as she and the units pinky-swear to leave the Magic Kingdom and never come back. That's probably the most peaceful outcome they could hope for at this point.


    Hey, intelligence like that isn't allowed here :-)

    Seriously good idea.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:14 pm 
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    Drest wrote:
    where the hell do you live that shoplifters are "gunned down in the streets"? :lol: :lol: :lol:


    I live in a country where a person that is not a shoplifter can be gunned down in the street for the crime of "living while black".

    I live in a country where an angry white person can call 911, say "There's a black guy waving a gun around and scaring people", and a cop goes into a walmart, makes no attempt to verify what's happening, assumes that what was said on the phone was correct, and shoots a black person carrying what looks like a real gun.

    In a state with legal open carry.
    In a store that sells guns.
    When the black man was calm, and there was nothing going on; no waving, no scaring, no panic.

    Where this person, if it had in fact been a real gun, was doing nothing wrong, and could in fact legally be going to purchase the gun, or it might even already be his.

    When the gun in question was a BB gun that was in the wrong place, and the man was just trying to get it returned to store workers to be properly reshelved.

    "Living while black" is a real crime here in at least 11 states.

    And I'm not even talking about the person that laid down in the street, arms up in the air, said "I'm not doing anything", and the cop still shot him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:45 pm 
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    I got a question, and please forgive my ignorance, but am I correct in assessing that your given name is ChunLing and family name is Chiu? Seems awkward to use both all the time. But for all I know using just the given name might be culturally inappropriate (overly familiar?). Not even really sure where you're from come to think of it. For all I know you're fricken Canadian, eh? <--- My actually thought process folks. Weep for me.

    Lets start again: how should I address you Chiu ChunLing?

    Regardless of the answer to that question...

    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    I don't have time here to explicate the fundamental principle of all law enforcement. Some people prefer to remain ignorant, and while I can't say that's okay, it's not like I have a magic wand to get people to confront things they'd rather not know.

    Of course the same thing applies to people who think that a valid response to anyone else having the potential to injure them is to go hostile on them without any other provocation. In fact, the level of delusion necessary to the one is frequently found as the root of the other.

    To say that the leaders of the MK are acting "reasonably" is to deny that there is any component of actual reason involved in being "reasonable". It is to tacitly admit that Buck can do as he likes because he's the "only one" present with a gun. Which is stupid because he is NOT the only one present who can crit people by shooting them, he just has a slightly better gun. Not a dozen or a hundred times better, either. Maybe three or four times better, at a stretch.

    Buck is like a guy who writes 2x2=6234.87641 and sets out on an infinite money generating scheme based on this 'insight'. Sure, if 2x2=6234.87641 (or any value other than 4) and all other rules of inference still apply, you could definitely make infinite money by exploiting that fact. But that doesn't make it a "reasonable" course of action. That doesn't mean that, because he wrote 2x2=6234.87641, all the evidence points to it being true and there is no reason to suspect it isn't. If shooting people simply because they have the ability to harm you if you don't kill them first is a reasonable activity in your eyes, then you have no place in civilized society or even in savage society.


    I really wanted to agree with you. I did agree with you. Then I read this:

    EpicCrab wrote:
    Count_to_10 wrote:
    You know, from the perspective of most in the magic kingdom, the Decrypted are kind of like an intelligent zombie apocalypse. I'd probably be dusting them as fast as possible, if I were in their place -- particularly if they believe that the Decrypted are all just clones of Wanda's mind wearing corpses and their habits like a disguise.


    It's worse than just that. Wanda, the progenitor of the apocalypse, just escaped through the bedrock, which should be impossible and no one can follow her. Then all the Thinkamancers are killed, a turn or two after betraying her in the trial. And they know (or at least think they do) that Wanda has no problem croaking and decrypting free casters without provocation. Meanwhile, they're currently holding her favorite units prisoner awaiting execution, which certainly counts as provocation. And they may know that she can remotely repatriate the Decrypted, and they don't know enough to know she needed Thinkamancy and the Arkenpliers to do that.

    Honestly, with all the different ways they should be terrified of Wanda's escape, I'm surprised more casters aren't on board with the whole execute the prisoners before they become an enemy force (again) thing.


    And now I don't agree at all. Ironic considering I wrote a similar argument to Count-to-ten's and Epic Crab's regarding the limited knowledge and non-obvious perspective of free casters in regard to the threat posed by Parson which then earned me my Sharpest Tool badge. I really should have seen this argument for myself.

    They are right. And, to a limited degree, Chui ChunLing is right. The free casters aren't being entirely reasonable... from an objective perspective. But they do have reasons. They did do reasoning. And from the perspective of their limited, subjective understanding, they have reached reasonable reasons for what they are doing. Its just that we, the viewers, can see their actions more objectively than they can... by a lot. We have a better grasp on the objective truths of their reality. So they only came to the wrong conclusions because they don't know what we do and the only reason we know they are wrong is cause we know what they don't.

    So they are being subjectively reasonable and objectively unreasonable at the same time.

    Life's a boop like that.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:52 pm 
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    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    GK was willing to be reasonable as reciprocate any respect they were shown. All the actual evidence shows this in abundance. They also have the ability to reciprocate any attacks on their interests. The latter shouldn't even have come up, the MK should have said that they would tolerate Parson entering the MK as long as he would abide their rules. Instead they turned him into an outlaw for no particular reason, and so he decided to behave like one.


    Imagine if you're part of a government of some country famed for its international neutrality, and an unknown and unauthorized individual enters your country illegally. Your government, of course, apprehends and quickly deports that individual. Then, some time later, that same individual (who it turns out is a top general of another country, whose government he has the authority to speak for) asserts the right to not only re-enter your country without authorization, but also cross your territory as part of a military strike on a third country. You inform him that this is a flagrant violation of your neutrality and an act of war, but after some debate, your government reaches a consensus not to use force to prevent him from doing as he wishes. Despite this act of appeasement, after that officer completes his military campaign, he returns soon afterwards with an army, asserts private business with a subdivision of your government, and proclaims the laws of your country to be "horseshit", warning that any attempt whatsoever to enforce them on him for any reason will be met with deadly force at the hands of the aforementioned army.

    I would think that the very idea that your country would even entertain the idea that the officer's own government was "willing to be reasonable", or had even the slightest bit of respect for your laws or your sovereignty, would be downright silly. I would also think that if some kind of battle did take place on your soil involving the offending country and a (fourth) country, it would be entirely reasonable to begin with a presumption that the offending country was probably at fault.

    This isn't to say that the action of some of the MK natives have not been self-destructive or unwise, but the suggestion that they were being unreasonable for treating GK with great suspicion after Parson's antics in Book 2 (which, I might add, were initiated not based on some actual great military or other need, but instead based almost entirely on a personal sense that he had a "duty" to fight in the battle in person, combined with a blanket disregard for the laws of the MK) is baffling.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:05 pm 
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    Just wanna chime in and add my 2 cents to the discussion regarding the actions of the casters in the MK. There are far too many people looking at it from their own perspective as a reader of the story where they have all the context and facts etc. given to us as readers, and making judgments from that perspective. You have to consider the perspective of the casters in the MK, as the last few posts have done. The majority of Parson's actions in the MK have been bad ones. Sure overall he's doing the Right Thing to try and take down Charlie and end war and all that stuff... but without any of that understanding, all that the majority of MK residents know is that ever since Parson showed up, things in the MK have become chaotic and dangerous, and there's events happening that could quite possibly result in the MK being irreparably changed or broken. Mob think is incredibly dangerous and emotional and prone to snap, hasty, bad decisions, but it's also incredibly hard to fight. Think of the MK residents as being a giant angry mob right now, cause they basically are. Their actions are almost certainly incorrect, but derived from valid concerns, thought processes etc.

    TLDR; always try to consider the perspective of the person you're judging, rather than judging them from your own perspective.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:44 pm 
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    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+3/152

    Someone had mentioned earlier that Wanda could see through Archon's eyes without the Arkenpliers, so I thought I'd provide the source if needed.

    Regarding the pacing, for me personally I'm fine with it. Would I like more resolutions more often? Of course, but I also trust in Balder's storytelling ability, and the fact I've enjoyed it this long tells me he knows what he's doing. I'd pay more as a Tool if I could, but this is the only comic I read where I've financially invested in keeping the story going, both with being a Tool and with the Kickstarters.

    For the actual comic itself:

    I'm sad to see poor Borobean (I like that better than his real name :P) get beaned; I liked how he assisted in the Battle in the MK, and it would have been cool to get more insight into his Discipline if he had been allowed to escape to GK.

    I want Lilith to survive! She's too much of a BAMF to go down this way. And like some in the thread had mentioned, I also would like to see her side with Parson specifically. Showing her loyalty to him over Wanda when she confessed her Mistress kept her from croaking Charlie, and saving him from dying by pushing him out of CC's portal when the gunfire started and risking her own life; I just really want to see more of her working with him. And while I like the reveal of Maggie being in love with Parson and the possibility of him discovering his feelings for her, I also wouldn't mind a Lilith and Parson relationship forming.

    I hope we get to see what Wanda can do as a Master Class Croakamancer without any bodies; it really feels like the Discipline is rather limited, while we've gotten to see a lot of different things Turnamancer, Thinkamancy, and Dollamancy can do.

    I know we were concerned about what RVC said he was going to do in TV (which is still pretty funny considering that's one of the things the MK took issue with with Parson), but I wonder if he's even going to get that far? He's still here at the execution site while something Bad is about to go down, so he could very well get croaked (almost said decrypted, but still no 'pliers as of yet).

    And poor Janis. Someone had mentioned it looked like she was getting Ashen Signamancy, but from what I can see, it just looks like a bigger bodied person getting really winded from running :( I do hope she can do something to help ease the conflict; because while the MK getting comeuppance and getting to see a decryption snowball somehow take place would be awesome, I don't think it would be good for the story overall.

    The MK situation is complicated, to say the very least. Can I say both sides are both Wrong and Right :P ? The MK is Right to want it's neutrality respected and Wrong to antagonize Parson and GK from the very start; while Parson is Right to want to be able to enter the MK as literally Erfworld is allowing him to do so, while being Wrong to go against MK's laws?

    I think if Parson hadn't broken the neutrality law, but MK had allowed him to visit and learn from other Disciplines and recruit Casters as needed, the status quo would have been maintained. He wouldn't have needed a Guard with him for protection, and I don't think things would have escalated as badly as they have. Granted, Parson following the rules wouldn't be as exciting a story now would it :P But I liked him being able to learn things from Janis and Jojo, and wanted him to learn more from the other Casters and maybe use some of his personal Date-a-mancy to bring around others to his cause.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:00 pm 
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    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    Dryhad wrote:
    No, the prisoners were to be executed because decryption is OP and all Decrypted are to be killed on sight now (see the free caster's reaction to Marie). I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they want to mentally torment Wanda, it's not like they need to pump her for information or anything. The purpose of executing these units is not to irritate Wanda, it's to kill the units. Thus, this action, prompted by the knowledge that Ivan's around and potentially able to free them before they are killed, is quite sensible.
    Except that Janis is running around because this is wrong, the decrypted as such are not OP and banned. That is the obvious effective message of the decision to execute them in this manner, but it wasn't the deal.

    This is not supported, and the inference from it that the firing squad exists only to cause Wanda personal distress still doesn't follow from it even if it was.

    Janis isn't happy about Decrypted being considered OP in and of themselves but she never makes the argument that they aren't, by the current ruling. The argument she makes is that Hippiemancer protection ought to be enough to shield Marie from the dictates of this ruling. Whether this is a valid argument is not 100% clear but my feeling is that she is wrong, and that she didn't fully think through what was going to happen after Marie was decrypted (recall that she was planning on having her decrypted before the OP ruling; whatever deals she cut to ensure this would have been rendered moot just like Bonnie's deal was).

    But even if you're right and Janis is "running around" because she's right and everyone else is wrong, rather than because she's upset that things didn't go as she had hoped, that doesn't mean the Dirtamancers adhere to the "correct" interpretation. It is clearly a popular understanding amongst the free casters that Decrypted cannot be allowed to live, there's absolutely no evidence that the execution is for any other purpose than preventing this.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:12 pm 
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    This update has gotten me wondering about the mechanism behind Eyemancy and Bedrock.

    Charlie has communicated through Bedrock, Wanda can see through bedrock and Parson has implied you can give orders through bedrock.

    Therefore, Eyemancy can't be an extension of traditional strings else they'd pass right through. So what exactly is eyemancy that blocks it?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:15 pm 
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    Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user got funny with a rodent This user is a Tool! Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Celebrated Rob and Linda's 1st Clubs Suit Pip For when you need it most Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Diamonds Suit Pip Spades Suit Pip Arkenhammer Supporter Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins
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    SHE MIGHT BE ALIVE! ALIVE! LILITH MIGHT LIVE! OH GLORIOUS DAY KAHLOU KALA SHE MIGHT LIVE LIVE LIVE!

    That art tho! Wanda's eyes over the last scene really brought the fact that she's looking right through Lilith's eyes into focus. Does she have any tricks up her sleeve? Who thinks Janis is going to throw herself in front of that bullet! Aw man I was super busy with work and couldn't read the comic til now, Wednesday night, and the thread is way too long to keep up with! Drat and darn!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:27 pm 
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    If being black is gonna get you gunned down for no reason in your state... you live in the wrong state. Because we basically don't have stories like that happening where I live. Not that it doesn't happen, but if it did then the media would be all over it, and they aren't.

    Which is part of what convinces me of how rare it is, is how often when it does happen, the media jumps all over it, because, get this, the media? they live off of sensationalism, and if something was an everyday occurrence, it wouldn't be sensational anymore. Ergo, being gunned down for shoplifting (regardless of race) is still fairly rare.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 108
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:06 am 
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    Overdroid wrote:
    Can Wanda cast through Lilith? If so I think she's about to.


    While in Stupidworld the eyes may be poorly designed to channel the amount of power required, we may find that in Erfworld, eye lasers are a thing.

    EpicCrab wrote:
    It's worse than just that. Wanda, the progenitor of the apocalypse, just escaped through the bedrock, which should be impossible and no one can follow her. Then all the Thinkamancers are killed, a turn or two after betraying her in the trial.


    No-one but the Thinkamancers themselves are aware of this. And JoJo probably, because of RVC. And Charlie, because of same.


    Blagan Hyrede wrote:
    3. Parson has provided every indication to the general residents of the Magic Kingdom that he only cares about following rules when he can't figure out a way around them. He entered the MK despite being a warlord. He entered it again, to invade an enemy side through its portal. He brought an army back through into the Magic Kingdom and Decrypted them, so he could continue to violate MK neutrality. Charlie broke their rules, too, which was why he is also being Censured, but by MK perspective in general, Charlie broke those rules in reaction to Parson. They're not declaring war on Gobwin Knob, they're indicating in no ambiguous terms, "Put a finger in the MK, and we will chop it off. Have your Booping war somewhere else." If Canada decided to wage war against Mexico, in the middle of the US, I would expect a similar reaction.


    See, here's the thing... Parson could enter the MK. As far as we know, this isn't possible because of the auto-disband. What on Erf gave the Casters there the right to decide "nope, even though you can come here through the Titanic Portal, we will attack you on sight".

    For me, that shows that Portals are at least FAR less restrictive on units "auto-disbanded", as the response seems to be too organized: "a Warlord in the MK, SHOOT IT!", where a more reasonable response for an allegedly impossible event would be "a Warlord in the MK, WTB!?!?!"

    All further disregard to their 'neutrality' happens after the initial threat on his life.

    Shashakiro wrote:
    Imagine if you're part of a government of some country famed for its international neutrality, and an unknown and unauthorized individual enters your country illegally.


    However, the MK doesn't get to authorize who comes in and out, that's what the Portals do. If you come into the MK, the Portal (made by the Titans, literally) let you, hence you're allowed.

    Hero of Shadows wrote:
    Ironically she has become what Olive accused her back in Book 0 someone who doesn't care about life because life is only something that makes corpses for her to work her magic on.


    But Wanda's magic doesn't take away their agency, whatever that may be, in Erfworld. Also, Wanda only croaks her enemies, she hasn't killed any of her side or her allies in order to "make them better".

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