Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 293 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:33 am 
Offline
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:50 am
Posts: 11
New here, so maybe I'm missing something, but why is everybody obsessing on Jed refusing orders? He makes a valid point, he's a city, not a unit. But at the same time, he still does everything Parson tells him to do, just as long as Parson asks rather than "orders". It seems to be the word order that he objects to.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:17 am 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:20 pm
    Posts: 1171
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    First off predictamancers can't predict something that isn't fated to happen. As Marie has just pointed out in a recent update not every battle matters... not every soldier matters. Things have to matter to be Predicted.
    I'm not sure I'm ready to assent to that. I know that the Predictamancers (mostly) seem to believe something of this sort, but I think that it's more likely that Predictamancers can cast to attempt a Prediction of any event they can imagine in sufficient detail. Over the course of such Predictions, the Predictamancer (both as an individual and, by sharing Predictions with others, as a group) build up a picture of the future about which many points of importance to them are clear and detailed. But they get surprised by the bits that weren't Predicted, just like anyone else.

    The natural tendency is to think that things are more likely to exist if you can see them. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily true. Conversely, there is a natural tendency to assume you see more than you actually see...this was the central contribution of Impressionism. At a glance, you see a picture. When you look up close, it turns out that most the details you assumed were there at first glance were the result of your experience and expectations filling in the gaps.

    Still, Predicting when you'll make a successful attack and only taking those attacks is one thing. Predicting when you'll make a successful counter is much harder, because you have to speculate on a lot of different attacks that an enemy might make X the number of possible counters you might make to those attacks, not just the limited number you're willing to try. And just like you can't force a Prediction of a hit, you can't force a Prediction of a counter. And the greater difficulty means that the lack of a Prediction doesn't mean there won't be a counter and especially not that there won't be an attack, it just means you didn't imagine the attack and counter with sufficient details.

    On the subject of Jed, I think that most people aren't obsessing over it, it's just that most the people not obsessed aren't bothering to say they aren't obsessing over it.

    P.S. It's too bad about Anomynus 167. Even if most of the posts were random junk, and sometimes garbage, some of them were pretty funny. Wait a second, I'm looking at the edited post now, and I'm certain I recall the posts around it. And yet I have no memory of anything particularly more egregious than some of the Oxford Comma Man Nemesis/Sidekick posts.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:22 pm 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:47 am
    Posts: 1126
    WLM: zilfallon@hotmail.com
    Location: Magic Kingdom
    O.o

    Wait, what did Anom167 do to get banned? That must have taken some serious effort on his part.

    _________________
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    I was hoping we could debate the meaning of "agent" in the the Declaration of Non-Aggression again. It totally hasn't been argued to death already.

    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:48 pm 
    Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:55 pm
    Posts: 562
    zilfallon wrote:
    O.o

    Wait, what did Anom167 do to get banned? That must have taken some serious effort on his part.

    Seriously. I mean, he always posts weird/tangential stuff, but I can't imagine what he would've posted that was so bad as to get himself banned...wow. Just doesn't seem his style. Oh well, I guess...c'est la vie.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:23 pm 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:20 pm
    Posts: 1171
    Well, I was getting tired of the 'punctuation that doubles as an obscene reference-person' jokes (I don't remember specifically if that was what the deleted post was about, because I'd started skimming those). If Rob told Anomynous to knock it off and that didn't work...Rob has more important things to do than spend a lot of time moderating.

    I mean, the forum is nice, but it's just added value for Erfworld. Ensuring it doesn't become a detraction is important, but not worth risking delaying updates. Posting on the forum doesn't grant anyone a right to insist Rob take away time from writing the comic to deal with them personally.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:13 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:50 am
    Posts: 11
    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    On the subject of Jed, I think that most people aren't obsessing over it, it's just that most the people not obsessed aren't bothering to say they aren't obsessing over it.

    Mmm fair point. It just seems like people are making a mountain out of a molehill, taking a few sentences and immediately speculating and theorizing about how Parson could get Jed to obey his every order, or how Parson could destroy Jed if necessary.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:16 pm 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:20 pm
    Posts: 1171
    Hehe, Jed is at least a tower, so even if people are making a mountain out of it, they're not starting from a molehill. But yeah, there were a number of suggestions that Parson could waste time casting on clouds or waste a significantly improved tower because "anyone that does what I say because I'm nice to them rather than because they are magically compelled must be an incipient traitor."

    Parson doesn't mind Jed pointing out that he isn't subject to orders, nor does he mind Caesar telling him that he doesn't yet have a plan. That's Parson's real strength as a commander and a strategist, he doesn't reject ideas, evidence, or help just because it would mean admitting he wasn't the boss of everyone and always right without question.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:06 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:50 am
    Posts: 11
    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    Hehe, Jed is at least a tower, so even if people are making a mountain out of it, they're not starting from a molehill.

    Oh snap! Well played. :P

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:06 am 
    Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:07 pm
    Posts: 42
    Eeep!

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:08 am 
    This user posted the comment of the month
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:24 pm
    Posts: 279
    Skater901 wrote:
    New here, so maybe I'm missing something, but why is everybody obsessing on Jed refusing orders? He makes a valid point, he's a city, not a unit. But at the same time, he still does everything Parson tells him to do, just as long as Parson asks rather than "orders". It seems to be the word order that he objects to.

    The nature of free will is kind of a central theme of the entire story, why wouldn't we be talking about it a lot?

    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    P.S. It's too bad about Anomynus 167. Even if most of the posts were random junk, and sometimes garbage, some of them were pretty funny. Wait a second, I'm looking at the edited post now, and I'm certain I recall the posts around it. And yet I have no memory of anything particularly more egregious than some of the Oxford Comma Man Nemesis/Sidekick posts.

    I can't remember anything particularly objectionable either. A pity he was so anomynous, else somebody could've emailed to ask. ;)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:47 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:50 am
    Posts: 11
    greyknight wrote:
    The nature of free will is kind of a central theme of the entire story, why wouldn't we be talking about it a lot?

    Free will vs fate, or free will in general? It seems to me that a lot of the free will theme in the story is about how there can be free will if there's also fate. Free will amongst the units only seems to be something that affects Parson because it's just so weird to him.

    Discussing the potential ramifications of Jed appearing to have free will and refusing orders is certainly interesting, but people jumping straight to "OMG Jed refused an order he's going to turn hostile and Parson will have to destroy him!!1111!!!one" is just insane. [sarcasm]What, at the slightest sign of resistance against the Chosen One, they must be destroyed? That's definitely not tyranny.[/sarcasm]

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:40 pm 
    This user posted the comment of the month
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:24 pm
    Posts: 279
    Skater901 wrote:
    jumping straight to "OMG Jed refused an order he's going to turn hostile and Parson will have to destroy him!!1111!!!one" is just insane.

    I brought up that as a possible plot course because it's a thing authors like to do, not because I like it. I think it's silly. That doesn't mean it won't happen in the story, though.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 4 - Page 107
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:59 pm 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:20 pm
    Posts: 1171
    Well, it does tend to suggest that it wouldn't be Parson who'd do it, though. Parson is the "respect for autonomy" character in Erfworld. If someone is going to get leery of Jed not taking orders from the CWL and raze the tower or whole city to get rid of him, it's going to be someone else.

    Which is why I'm inclined to see Jed as having a vested interest in not letting anyone take Spacerock from GK.

    I mean, sure, he's a tower, and so what he 'wants' is to stand and defend the city. But he's also a gregarious if not particularly loquacious fellow, he apparently likes being able to talk even if losing that ability wouldn't fundamentally injure him in any really permanent sense (and I don't see how it would). I think he enjoys talking to certain people (when he feels like it), and while I don't believe the silent treatment was deliberate, I don't buy that Jed didn't enjoy that at all (I know I thought it was hilarious). Jed likes that people would miss him if he weren't talking to them.

    He'd lose that if he really betrayed Stanley outright.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 293 posts ] 

    Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to: