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 Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:58 pm 
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alowe wrote:
Nimelennar wrote:
Is anyone able to read that green note?

I can pick out a few longer words: "Happening," "Magic Kingdom," "Noah," "Hippiemancer," "following," "officially"... but I can't make sense of it as a whole.

Edit: Strike that; it's the same as the other note. I don't get why it's in there twice, especially so obscured in one instance, but I get what it says now.

Because the first time it's written in gang symbols and the second time it's translated for our convenience :D

Rather, the first one is encrypted.

Interestingly, the one that we can read has a bunch of seemingly random blobs of color, whereas in the hashed-up version, those “blobs” look an awful lot like gems.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:39 pm 
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    Another friendly and nicely-colorful contract... but I will say that the blurry one doesn't come close to resembling words on a mobile device. (Then again, my cell phone is absurdly old.) I thought it was some kind of mapped hedge maze until I used a bigger computer.

    I wonder if Annie has been concealing her full power -- not just a love of weapons, but her Abbie-level power. Back when Roger met the casters Who Mattered, he wasn't sure why Annie was among the group. This update says she's a stronger representative than I ever thought.

    Those Gang Signs are another recalibrated perspective for me. Back when Annie used them for Janis, I'd thought it was Annie casting to analyze the new MK truce contract, and then she told Janis her readout verbally. I should've known that Annie would already know the nuances of the contract, and then I might have realized that she was using Sign Language to have a discussion that nobody else could Look at.

    Huh, Date-a-mancy includes understanding the the source of one's agitation? It's supposed to be the school of love, so perhaps that means knowledge of other social feelings and how they start. Hmmm... I suppose a master-class Date-a-mancer with the vocabulary of a Signamancer ought to be able to give a stirring inspirational speech -- the whole hearts-and-minds package. And yet Janis couldn't win a verdict for Wanda? Well, I know Janis did her best (which is plenty), so that must mean the other casters were really pissed at Wanda. ...Not big surprise.

    As for the new tutelary -- aren't they usually the same height as the original tower? And the old one was so pathetically small that it wasn't even as tall as the city walls, much less the trees. So either a tutelary gains a growth spurt upon awakening... or it convinced Paige to pay for an upgrade.

    I don't know what that would say about its what-the-Ruler-needs personality. And I wouldn't know where to start with guessing what Paige needs because (notwithstanding her relationship with Noah) she is psychologically fragile in a few ways.

    Bandaid wrote:
    Man, we just discovered yet another level of suck in Erfworld. Imagine being a Hippiemancer, with a desire for peace and love being a core component of your whole existence. Now imagine also being knowlegdeable about your Signamancy and the Signamancy of guns. You know you will love those things once you see them in action. You will want them. Perhaps even more then you want peace. Your whole personality will change, perhaps forever, and you know this in advance. In the best case scenario you will be craving for something you never can allow yourself to have...

    Insanity in cans. Do not worry, Erfworld keeps up a steady supply. You will get yours. It will be personalized and popped just for you.....

    This. All of this. It's even afflicting a practitioner of harmony, too.

    I had an idea for fanart once. It involved Annie tending some plants, then Janis and Parson walk by. Janis introduces them, and Parson asks some kind of wisecrack question of whether Annie would ever be a markswoman. Without looking up from her work, Annie would point one finger behind her back and say "Hoboken" a dozen or so times. Less than a foot away from a flinching Parson, he sees her name burned into a tree trunk.

    ...I'd wondered about drawing that. Now, it's another one image that just feels wrong.

    ElementalNimbus wrote:
    That looks a lot like a wooden mask to me, I feel like I've seen its exact likeness before but I cannot quite place my finger on it. Looking forward to the theories of the tower's signamancy.

    While I'll always crave more story, I really do love the layers of simultaneous things happening leading up to the next plot ark. Fate weaves a tricky web indeed.

    "Wooden" sounds about right. The pair of ~horizontal lines would be eyes, right? If so, their upward centers make it look like the top half of a smiling face, kinda like (^u^)

    I suppose a Grand Abbie's side wouldn't usually need a second source of "don't worry, be happy"... but this is not a normal day.

    Syrup Roast wrote:
    If I'm reading this right the city is situated right at the border of the current hex and disguised like a storm hex to discourage continuing in that direction.

    But if they're adjacent hexes, wouldn't explorers on the current hex suddenly experience alternating turns with an unknown side? That might pique interest westward if it's the only direction they can find that might hide units from another side. Or am I remembering the turns rules wrong?

    If Side A's units are Fated to be in the battlespace of Side B's units, then A & B must take turns. I do not know whether "battlespace" means each side's units would be in the same hex at least once, or if they'd be within a turn's move of each other at least once. If it's the same-hex option, then yes, I'd say the intruders would be Fated to explore westward. But if it's only the one-turn's-move option, then they still might not find Nestly. They'd probably be a bunch of hexes away when the turn orders changes unexpectedly, and just because they could reach the city doesn't mean they will, especially if the sailors are thinking, "Someone might be living in any of these hexes, but they sure wouldn't live in that storm."

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:01 am 
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    Brother Mirtillo wrote:
    Syrup Roast wrote:
    If I'm reading this right the city is situated right at the border of the current hex and disguised like a storm hex to discourage continuing in that direction.

    But if they're adjacent hexes, wouldn't explorers on the current hex suddenly experience alternating turns with an unknown side? That might pique interest westward if it's the only direction they can find that might hide units from another side. Or am I remembering the turns rules wrong?

    If Side A's units are Fated to be in the battlespace of Side B's units, then A & B must take turns. I do not know whether "battlespace" means each side's units would be in the same hex at least once, or if they'd be within a turn's move of each other at least once. If it's the same-hex option, then yes, I'd say the intruders would be Fated to explore westward. But if it's only the one-turn's-move option, then they still might not find Nestly. They'd probably be a bunch of hexes away when the turn orders changes unexpectedly, and just because they could reach the city doesn't mean they will, especially if the sailors are thinking, "Someone might be living in any of these hexes, but they sure wouldn't live in that storm."


    Is there a definition for battlespace that designates how many hexes can separate units of the differing sides? For instance, in the case of a normal day in Nestly, ALL Nestly units would be in the same hex. If the RCC (v.2.1) were to go on a fishing expedition for potential foes or Allies, would the alternating Turns effect kick in when RCC's units ended turn adjacent to Nestly's hex, or within it?

    Also, since the Nestly side hardly ever strays from the Nestly hex,* wouldn't it just be simple prudence for Paige to end turn the moment the sun rose? What, exactly does being off-Turn entail? Are there specific actions that cannot be taken beyond moving outside one's hex, or is that the only limitation? Can Noah and Paige harvest food? Can Noah cast to grow food? Can he cast Dateamancy to collect intelligence from a See-bird when he's off-Turn? Can Paige WRITE while she's off-Turn?




    *(Noah's mission to learn the Fate^H^H^H^H outcome of Fumo's peregrinations would be an exception to this strategy, of course)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:17 am 
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    Prediction: Annie Oakleaf will get a Peacemaker.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:13 am 
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    Jaguars? Hmm... are those related to jagulars and/or jugulars?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:16 am 
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    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    Also, since the Nestly side hardly ever strays from the Nestly hex,* wouldn't it just be simple prudence for Paige to end turn the moment the sun rose? What, exactly does being off-Turn entail? Are there specific actions that cannot be taken beyond moving outside one's hex, or is that the only limitation? Can Noah and Paige harvest food? Can Noah cast to grow food? Can he cast Dateamancy to collect intelligence from a See-bird when he's off-Turn? Can Paige WRITE while she's off-Turn?


    Most magic can't be used off turn. The specifics haven't been elaborated. Writing doesn't seem affected, as Paige does write at night.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:00 pm 
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    Jaxad0127 wrote:
    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    Also, since the Nestly side hardly ever strays from the Nestly hex,* wouldn't it just be simple prudence for Paige to end turn the moment the sun rose? What, exactly does being off-Turn entail? Are there specific actions that cannot be taken beyond moving outside one's hex, or is that the only limitation? Can Noah and Paige harvest food? Can Noah cast to grow food? Can he cast Dateamancy to collect intelligence from a See-bird when he's off-Turn? Can Paige WRITE while she's off-Turn?


    Most magic can't be used off turn. The specifics haven't been elaborated. Writing doesn't seem affected, as Paige does write at night.

    First of all, writing isn't casting. Second of all, that rule really doesn't feel right. Even discounting all casting done in the Magic Kingdom, it feels like we must have examples of off turn casting while not under attack or sharing space with unallied sides. Sizemore put out the inferno off turn, with no threats in the hex. He also cast on the portal using the Wonky Wrench off turn. Wehave lots of instances of Thinkagrams being sent off turn. I'm not sure whose turn it was when Charlie cast on Lilith, but either Charlie cast off turn or Maggie and Wanda did. Bill would spend juice on the Bunny doll when he raped it at night.

    Maybe these are all exceptions. Maybe the doll and the wrench don't count because spending juice and casting aren't the same thing. Maybe Jetstone being in a nearby hex was close enough to allow Sizemore to put out the inferno. But I was always under the impression that you could cast whenever, only most casting was done during your turn, and juice refills at dawn so most weren't able to cast off turn by way of being out of juice.

    Not that there isn't precedent for such a rule. In turn based war games like Heroes of Might and Magic, you can only cast on your turn or when you are attacked, but that's because you aren't active when it isn't your turn. In Erfworld there are still plenty of things you can do off turn, so it feels weird.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:12 pm 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    First of all, writing isn't casting.

    I never said it was. kaylasdad99 asked about it too.

    Lipkin wrote:
    Second of all, that rule really doesn't feel right. Even discounting all casting done in the Magic Kingdom, it feels like we must have examples of off turn casting while not under attack or sharing space with unallied sides. Sizemore put out the inferno off turn, with no threats in the hex. He also cast on the portal using the Wonky Wrench off turn. Wehave lots of instances of Thinkagrams being sent off turn. I'm not sure whose turn it was when Charlie cast on Lilith, but either Charlie cast off turn or Maggie and Wanda did. Bill would spend juice on the Bunny doll when he raped it at night.

    Maybe these are all exceptions. Maybe the doll and the wrench don't count because spending juice and casting aren't the same thing. Maybe Jetstone being in a nearby hex was close enough to allow Sizemore to put out the inferno. But I was always under the impression that you could cast whenever, only most casting was done during your turn, and juice refills at dawn so most weren't able to cast off turn by way of being out of juice.

    Not that there isn't precedent for such a rule. In turn based war games like Heroes of Might and Magic, you can only cast on your turn or when you are attacked, but that's because you aren't active when it isn't your turn. In Erfworld there are still plenty of things you can do off turn, so it feels weird.

    I agree it's a weird rule, but it's canon (Book 1, even). It might be something like: if the enemy is near by but not currently engaging you, you can't cast; if you are in battle or nowhere near the enemy you can cast. But that just replaces the wonkiness with something about as bad. Or it might only apply to offensive(-related) magic. Maybe Carnymancy is immune and can allow other casting outside the rule. Lot's of things can explain it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:30 pm 
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    I've been thinking. As Nestly is level 1, and I am guessing likely always has been, or at least never been that high, if it might have a level 5 bonus to take advantage of the fact that the island location is a terrible inconvenience for a capital site, that has never been seen because of it's remoteness. I have the impression that location has likely never had much more then a handful of people.

    Of course we could also get some wierdness... Maybe the island will be animated by a turtle if it ever got to level 5, breaking all known erfhysics as we know em :)

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     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:14 am 
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    Deo wrote:
    Of course we could also get some wierdness... Maybe the island will be animated by a turtle if it ever got to level 5, breaking all known erfhysics as we know em :)


    Not quite. According to the journal from the Genesis of a Gilded Hatchet, a city can turn into a turtle at Level 3.

    Image

    Further in this journal there are stories of ambulatory eagle-mounted flying cities at level five...

    Image

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:57 am 
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    Ha wow. I had to stare at it for a bit to realize what you were referencing.
    Funny since I just found my old LaserActive in storage (Wiki) that I had when I was five and used to... devotedly study the path of the Gilded Hatchet after coming home from kindergarten.

    Think they will have fire breathing dino mounts?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:09 am 
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    Brother Mirtillo wrote:
    ElementalNimbus wrote:
    That looks a lot like a wooden mask to me, I feel like I've seen its exact likeness before but I cannot quite place my finger on it. Looking forward to the theories of the tower's signamancy.

    While I'll always crave more story, I really do love the layers of simultaneous things happening leading up to the next plot ark. Fate weaves a tricky web indeed.

    "Wooden" sounds about right. The pair of ~horizontal lines would be eyes, right? If so, their upward centers make it look like the top half of a smiling face, kinda like (^u^)

    I suppose a Grand Abbie's side wouldn't usually need a second source of "don't worry, be happy"... but this is not a normal day.


    Close. I sometimes forget that vision is way more subjective than I'd like it to be. The mask would be wooden, the -'s are eyes, the U shape you referenced would be the nose given placement on the face, mouth would be below the treeline.

    My main two comments would be, not seeing the mouth means we can't yet even really guess emotional context, also the right eye (our left) has a vertical line going down from it. The other lines have the random grains of wood, however that line has the same width and purpose as the nose. I'm curious if it is meant to be a scar or if the mask is supposed to be crying.

    Honestly I'm surprised no one chipped in saying they recognize its exact origin. I feel like I have seen nearly that exact mask before in my life. It has been driving me insane. Been pouring over galleries with various cultures coming somewhat close but nothing close enough.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:24 am 
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    I feel pretty good about this guess as to the idol source!
    Image

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigir_Idol

    This says little about how the tower will be, as Derply's personality (not I'm Coming For You Stanley tower's REAL name, but i've forgotten...Templeton?) basically was a combo of his Derpy look and the intellectual understanding that Jillian needs.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:02 pm 
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    Seannibal wrote:
    I feel pretty good about this guess as to the idol source!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigir_Idol

    This says little about how the tower will be, as Derply's personality (not I'm Coming For You Stanley tower's REAL name, but i've forgotten...Templeton?) basically was a combo of his Derpy look and the intellectual understanding that Jillian needs.


    A. Thank you for proving that I am, in fact, not insane. I never would have found this.
    B. Very nice catch, did you know it off hand, or spend a completely sane amount of time looking for it?
    C. I find any predictions are near dartboard hopes and dreams in Erfworld. Often the Signamancy only shows clearly in retrospect. Still, this provides the dartboard!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:38 pm 
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    ElementalNimbus wrote:
    B. Very nice catch, did you know it off hand, or spend a completely sane amount of time looking for it?

    It was a completely reasonable amount of time on google image search, with absolutely NO dead ends looking at wooden masks, leading (eventually) to the Island of Reil, a part of the brain dealing with compassion and empathy. (Island of Hippiemancers??)

    COMPLETELY reasonable amount. (thanks, Rob, for your very thorough breadcrumbs, making it worth looking for.)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:41 pm 
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    I'll throw this out as well - I originally thought that the Hippiemancers were using Gang Signs to hide from the GM, but upon reflection maybe they were hiding from use of the Dish as well? Janis never liked Charlie, IIRC.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:56 pm 
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    OK, last one for now...

    Realizing that a) there are a lot of new towers out there and b) Dig Dug is potentially a ruler...

    Spec time: what unspoken need is his tower going to provide? Maybe a good shortcut to achieving his ultimate goal, defeating Charlie?

    (finger's crossed)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:08 pm 
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    Seannibal wrote:
    Realizing that a) there are a lot of new towers out there and b) Dig Dug is potentially a ruler...

    Spec time: what unspoken need is his tower going to provide? Maybe a good shortcut to achieving his ultimate goal, defeating Charlie?

    Relax and let Parson croak Charlie? After all, we have a Prediction that Parson is going to croak Charlie, personally. "Doesn't have to be a sword."


    Last edited by greycat on Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Consider myself lost.
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:10 pm 
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    OK, I definitely don't comprehend the witticism of the new caption "You okay, Annie". I could see how the original title (Annie's got a gun) was a reference to Elmo's Got a Gun, especially with her line that if she sees one fired she'll "never be the same". But "You okay, Annie" is entirely lost on me.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 17
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:15 pm 
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    Deo wrote:
    So... I am pretty sure this island will indeed become a refuge. I suspect the MK is going to become a major battleground in the future, caster against caster, free vs free, and things will get bad. When things break, business as usual becomes impossible, then the hippiemancers will venture here.

    Think they have avoided notice of Charlies prying eye?

    Better hope he doesn't figure out a way to locate all the capitals by somehow using the dish to determine tower locations.


    I seriously doubt they are unknown to Charlie. Getting an accurate and complete world map had to be one of the first things he did. But why would he care, hes not into conquest and they don't have enough money to hire mercenary work, so there just a nothing to him. I figure at the most they might be on the list of "places to run to (and conquer) if my capital falls"

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