Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:07 pm 
Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
Offline
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:23 pm
Posts: 176
Bandaid wrote:
kaylasdad99 wrote:
That said, I kinda hope that Fumo enters Tidepod at the precise moment its Tower/Tutelary awakens, and the new Temple declares HIM the Overlord of the place. :mrgreen:


"You guys suck so much anybody else would be better then you, a twoll, a sawhorse, anybody! Hey. You. You be ruler instead!"


Overlords are bland. Royalty are just more pretentious (and mechanically boosted) overlords. Toolism's a self-serving tangle of mysticism that's only been justified (until recently) by the continued success of it's proponents. The MK might have the best government yet, a tribalistic mess only held together by the universal fear of having the rest of the casters turn on your tribe if you violate one bargain or another.

Fumo will help bring a new, better system of order to Erfworld. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you... Frontarchy!

  • Tipped by 2 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:09 pm 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:00 pm
    Posts: 469
    "Communication itself is essentially impossible." *proceeds to say what communication actually is*

    Hmm, I kinda wonder about people who think the words are the real things, not something society points towards an ever-shifting consensus meaning. It seems to me a miracle enough that we can come up with enough common ground to make plans. Words are a one-dimensional sequence of data, while the real world is 3d and in real time, and my thought space is in 3d and relative time. Hue Hue's inner monologue makes more sense to me as descriptions of thoughts, than most inner monologues as thoughts.

    I understand that most people assume others think just like themselves but with little changes. Those who think in words, and not thought space, might often tell stories as Noah (and Rob?) say. I am building a sculpture, with relationships tying ideas together, which if described might sound like a scene in a story. For instance: Noah has an old tired sorrow for 'the secret terrible truth of signamancy,' which is the same idea I feel hope about, 'the power of human imagination.' :o

    [1,1] is not necessarily equivalent to 2, depending on what you want to do with it.

    But if you want to + it? totes 1+1 is 2. In fact, we can use this kind of thing to figure out if we are missing each other's assumptions. It's a great start to measuring such things. :o

    _________________
    Thoughts are props in the stagemancy we cast on ourselves.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:52 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:23 pm
    Posts: 176
    spriteless wrote:
    "Communication itself is essentially impossible." *proceeds to say what communication actually is*
    Noah's not trying to set out an academic definition of "communication". He uses that word exactly once, then goes on to talk at length about the problems inherent in trying to communicate what you intend.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:53 pm 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:33 am
    Posts: 177
    Stagepin wrote:
    carrion pigeons wrote:
    Of course an artist would think communication is impossible. The entire premise of art is that you get to be ambiguous and still hope to incite meaning. But principles can be factually communicated with adequate training. People can learn to speak the same language. Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it doesn't happen to most people every single day.


    You are not ready to hear about Derrida and Deconstructionism.


    I was going to go po mo on the mofo but I decided no go...

  • Tipped by 2 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:18 pm 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:00 pm
    Posts: 469
    DukeofTuring wrote:
    spriteless wrote:
    "Communication itself is essentially impossible." *proceeds to say what communication actually is*
    Noah's not trying to set out an academic definition of "communication". He uses that word exactly once, then goes on to talk at length about the problems inherent in trying to communicate what you intend.

    Yes. Yes that is true. And what I was intending is: "Of course words don't communicate what one intends. Words aren't even shaped like thoughts. Now onto practical tips and the 1+1 meme that's going around." :-)

    _________________
    Thoughts are props in the stagemancy we cast on ourselves.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:30 pm 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:33 am
    Posts: 177
    spriteless wrote:
    Words aren't even shaped like thoughts.


    Can you describe what thoughts are shaped like? Sort of fluffy clouds? Nets? Bolts of lightning? Words? Pictures? Moving scenes? Mathematical formulae?

    I'd argue anything we can conjure in our mind is by definition a thought. Can we think a word? I am now. What's the difference between the words you're talking about and the words I'm thinking now?

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:36 pm 
    User avatar
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 pm
    Posts: 1117
    How do you communicate only using mathematics with a person who is missing the brain center that does math? Are you saying that such a person just can't ever have a "real" conversation with anyone ever again? Because that sounds like a stupid thing to think.

    _________________
    “I will tell you precisely what Royalty is,” said Intra, “It is a continuous cutting motion.”

    -The Song of Maybe

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:20 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:23 pm
    Posts: 176
    This is one of those threads where it's like looking in a mirror and realizing that neither of you know what the hell's going on :)

    Worst Only form of dittomancy I know

  • Tipped by 2 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:51 pm 
    This user is a Tool! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Mined 4 Erf Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:36 pm
    Posts: 1
    I just like the pictures..

  • Tipped by 4 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:33 am 
    User avatar
    This user is a Tool!
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:54 am
    Posts: 26
    sola wrote:
    I don't think it's that style of narrator. You are hearing Fumo's thoughts, effectively. He believes that he will never see the ocean.

    Umbrathor wrote:
    Alas. We cannot be sure whether this is The Narrator speaking to us, the Reader, or Fumo's internal dialogue. Fumo can err. And since I am biased into believeing that Rob seldom errs, especially when it concerns the way the narravite will unfold for just a single page ahead, I am inclined to believe that the quote is from an internal dialogue.

    Geez. Excuse me for trying to have a remotely-sunny outlook on things. x.x

    This story has been ridiculously dark since, boop, since forever! Practically all of Book 4 was beyond dark, and now we get the story of Fumo the Booped, a man practically popped croaked.

    But in the midst of all the darkness and despair, I find a ray of positivity. A glimpse of hope! Not a big glimpse, but a glimpse.

    Is it alright if I hold onto it just a little longer before you snatch it away from me?

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 am 
    User avatar
    This user is a Tool! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter E is for Erfworld Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Hearts Suit Pip
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:34 pm
    Posts: 456
    KrenkoMobBoss wrote:
    This story has been ridiculously dark since, boop, since forever! Practically all of Book 4 was beyond dark, and now we get the story of Fumo the Booped, a man practically popped croaked.

    I for one still think he's going to live and prosper. But along the way, Tidepod is going to chew him up and spit him out ;)

    And despite the darkness of the premise, I also found reason for hope here. Noah knows about the injustice of Erfworld and he seems to be researching what can be done about it. A little thing, perhaps, but you know what they say about the little things.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:33 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:00 pm
    Posts: 469
    seanfish wrote:
    spriteless wrote:
    Words aren't even shaped like thoughts.


    Can you describe what thoughts are shaped like? Sort of fluffy clouds? Nets? Bolts of lightning? Words? Pictures? Moving scenes? Mathematical formulae?

    I'd argue anything we can conjure in our mind is by definition a thought. Can we think a word? I am now. What's the difference between the words you're talking about and the words I'm thinking now?

    Thoughts are shaped like a space, with nodes for nouns and relationships between them. Words are usually shaped into a line, a sentence. A single string of relationships can be a sentence. More than that and it sounds pedantic.

    If 'communication is impossible' then it isn't a secret. It's just normal. In fact, knowledge is always an approximation, even with no communicators involved. Whether you think in lines or webs or something else, your mental picture of reality isn't perfect, nor is your mental picture of other people, nor other people's mental pictures of reality.

    And people who think it could be perfect, really baffle me. As do people who think it's pointless to try to be better. If we can become close enough to predict and shape things, thoughts are pulling their weight.

    _________________
    Thoughts are props in the stagemancy we cast on ourselves.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:43 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:28 pm
    Posts: 79
    Thoughts on communication: i have a shirt that says "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. "

  • Tipped by 5 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:43 am 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:02 am
    Posts: 51
    seanfish wrote:
    Stagepin wrote:
    carrion pigeons wrote:
    Of course an artist would think communication is impossible. The entire premise of art is that you get to be ambiguous and still hope to incite meaning. But principles can be factually communicated with adequate training. People can learn to speak the same language. Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it doesn't happen to most people every single day.


    You are not ready to hear about Derrida and Deconstructionism.


    I was going to go po mo on the mofo but I decided no go...


    You can just solo him in slow mo with all your mojo, you know... yolo!

  • Tipped by 2 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:57 pm 
    User avatar
    Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 4:03 pm
    Posts: 245
    KrenkoMobBoss wrote:
    [snatched quotes]
    Geez. Excuse me for trying to have a remotely-sunny outlook on things. x.x

    This story has been ridiculously dark since, boop, since forever! Practically all of Book 4 was beyond dark, and now we get the story of Fumo the Booped, a man practically popped croaked.

    But in the midst of all the darkness and despair, I find a ray of positivity. A glimpse of hope! Not a big glimpse, but a glimpse.

    Is it alright if I hold onto it just a little longer before you snatch it away from me?


    All ye who read this here comic, abandon all hope!

    _________________
    Tramennis: "Never imagined I'd be in here, did you?"
    Ansom: "The closet? Certainly not." Book3 p84

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:32 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user posted the comment of the month
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:05 pm
    Posts: 63
    Stagepin wrote:
    carrion pigeons wrote:
    Of course an artist would think communication is impossible. The entire premise of art is that you get to be ambiguous and still hope to incite meaning. But principles can be factually communicated with adequate training. People can learn to speak the same language. Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it doesn't happen to most people every single day.


    You are not ready to hear about Derrida and Deconstructionism.


    You're right, we're not. My patience for academic Carnymancy is extremely limited. Derrida is a complete waste of anyone's time.

    More on topic, of course communication isn't perfect. But that's a far cry from saying it's *impossible*. If it were truly impossible, there would be no point in trying, no point in having a webcomic or a forum. And no point in saying "Communication is impossible." I've never understood how anyone embraces a view so obviously self-refuting.

    Daily experience shows that while misunderstandings inevitably occur, they can also be overcome.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:24 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:15 pm
    Posts: 29
    The Shadow wrote:
    ... of course communication isn't perfect. But that's a far cry from saying it's *impossible*. If it were truly impossible, there would be no point in trying, no point in having a webcomic or a forum. And no point in saying "Communication is impossible." I've never understood how anyone embraces a view so obviously self-refuting.

    Daily experience shows that while misunderstandings inevitably occur, they can also be overcome.

    Perhaps this is the Datemancers point of view. The extent to which those misunderstandings can be overcome very, very often depends entirely on how willing the parties are to do so. All things are forgiveable of those we love. All things are condemnable of those we hate.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:20 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool!
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:27 am
    Posts: 12
    i love Rob, i love this update, i love signamancy, and i love the discussion that appeared here in the wake of all three. <3

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:30 pm 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Marbits Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins For when you need it most Clubs Suit Pip Diamonds Suit Pip
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:21 am
    Posts: 45
    The Shadow wrote:
    You're right, we're not. My patience for academic Carnymancy is extremely limited. Derrida is a complete waste of anyone's time.

    ...

    Daily experience shows that while misunderstandings inevitably occur, they can also be overcome.


    I'm not a Deconstructionist myself; but I don't think it's a complete waste of time. I think it's best used to illustrate how personal communication is. I think taking the time to realize how the subtext of language is personally unique enables a anyone to make their communication better. It is a jumping off point to examine how your writing is perceived.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 5 - Prologue 4
     Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:20 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool!
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:15 pm
    Posts: 1458
    The Shadow wrote:

    More on topic, of course communication isn't perfect. But that's a far cry from saying it's *impossible*.


    The point is that it IS impossible for someone to pick up exactly what you mean. You say something, they hear something and interpret it, the meaning they get isn't gonna be the same as the one you put in. Could be close. Could be far. Never going to be exact.

    That's what I understood by Noah saying "communication is impossible", given the further elaboration that Noah had in the next paragraph. Seems true enough to me.

    Of course, perhaps that's not exactly what he meant. ;)

    _________________
    For those in the USA: Have you wondered what you would do during in the civil rights movement, or in the 1930s?

    Well, what did you do yesterday? Now you know.

    Let's all be the kind of people we wish everyone had been then. Show up. Call. Resist.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ] 

    Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: fabe, Google [Bot], Librarianrandy and 11 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to:  
    cron