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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Shai hulud wrote:
Arci wrote:
When I think of magic I usually first think of telekinesis, the ability to move objects around. This would make me think that telekinesis would fall somewhere within Spookism, where motion lives...

...except that what exists in Spookism deals pretty much with JUST motion, and telekinesis is MOTION applied to an object, AKA... MATTER.

So, I think that telekinetic effects would be a subset of shockmancy.

:roll: Ugh what does that even mean, "JUST MOTION", what would motion that's not applied to anything even BE?


Well, look at turnamancy, it alters things that DON'T EVEN EXIST YET (turns until something pops) and applies force to things that aren't even matter (willpower and allegiance, though held by things that are matter, are not themselves, matter). Heck, the one thing that Turnamancy CAN'T seem to turn is someone's physical position, because that would be altering "matter".

I won't argue dollamancy, partially because I just don't understand that crap anyway. But I will point out that it appears that Dollamancy is more about the organization of things than about affecting matter.

And if I can't argue dollamancy, forget me arguing Weirdamancy, that non-stuff's just plain weird.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:32 pm 
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    Change... Motion, is change.

    Changamancy aside, it's still one thing that all three Motion disciplines have in common! They "get things moving", they change things.

    Turnamancy gets things moving directly, altering turn cycles and loyalties via motivation.
    Dollamancy changes (moves) cloth and various materials, magic ON matter, but not OF matter.
    Weirdamancy changes magic itself!

    I think with some exception to Weirdamancy, each one of these also means that once the casting is done, the change keeps going. Which puts them at odds with Changeamancy which, once you've changed an object from one form to another... it just kinda stays that way I think.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:50 pm 
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    In fact, this gets even more interesting.

    If Motion magic puts motion or change into something, but changeamancy only changes the object itself.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:42 pm 
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    I'm seeing something of a theory popping.

    Matter doesn't like to move, it is fairly stationary. As such, magic of Matter and Motion is something of a contradiction. Which explains Shockmancy, it's a contradiction, from "stationary" to "moving" suddenly, shocking something.

    Croakamancy is applying motion to matter that used to have life, it was once moving and now... it has stopped.

    What about Deletionism? Applying motion to the state of Matter, applying MOVEMENT to the STATE of matter, as in, flipping the "existence" switch from "on" to "off", snuffing life and, indeed, matter, directly.

    Of course Deletionism got deleted so that's a bust.

    Hippiemancy seems to support this, being all about being stationary, or rather, being "without" or "anti" motion.

    That being said, it seems that all 3 of the 2-element magics can be defined as "magic sans X" where "X" is the missing element.

    But, if that is true, does that mean that eyemancy not only doesn't USE matter, but simply DOESN'T MATTER?!

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:34 pm 
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    I still think there's four axis and four elements.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:00 pm 
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    Shai hulud wrote:
    I still think there's four axis and four elements.


    I do not think so. But that's only all the more reason to tell us more anyway.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:35 am 
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    Remember how, for, like, a really long time, people thought the world was flat? Or, that mice were born from bags of wet flower? Or, that drinking mercury would give you long life?

    Maybe, just maybe, the magic table was crafted a long time ago, and now that people are pushing the bounds of magic, we're seeing that the table was created this way to define that which is undefinable (The Titanic Religion). You can categorize a concept or idea, but you can't really categorize the concept of ideas.
    I can't find the post, but didn't Maggie have a realization that she was a Date-a-mancer, or something? Perhaps, like so much of Erfworld, intent defines results as much as action does. It's all about your frame of mind.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:50 am 
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    Burley wrote:
    Maybe, just maybe, the magic table was crafted a long time ago, and now that people are pushing the bounds of magic, we're seeing that the table was created this way to define that which is undefinable (The Titanic Religion).

    The Arkenpliers itself speaks in terms of various "magic table" disciplines (Croakamancy, Dollamancy, Dirtamancy, Turnamancy) in its inner monologue, so I suspect those terms do refer to some sort of real, fundamental modes of perception or being. Now whether living units are strictly bound to those modes is another question altogether.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:14 pm 
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    I had a theory, though the speculation has already been up and also it deals less with magic directly and more with casters and the MK.

    I suspect the cost for making rands would be 150% of your upkeep cost and rands CANNOT be converted (directly) into shmuckers and cannot be used to keep your upkeep costs outside of the MK. An alternative cost speculation is that it costs like 200% of your upkeep to BEGIN making rands, but each rand itself only costs 100% of your upkeep, so the more rands you make in a batch the lower the cost-per-rand.

    This would mean that low-lever casters, with a lower upkeep cost, could keep themselves alive by offering to "create" rands at a lower cost than it would take higher level casters to do it. This does fill a bit of a hole in the MK in that, the casters there live by selling their services to sides, but that would mean that low-level casters have very little to offer and thus would not last long at all. This would allow a few of them to have alternative services to offer.

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     Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:56 am 
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    So, I've been thinking to myself about a potential replacement for Retconjuration... mostly because I want to, it bugs me.

    Voidamancy.

    The magic of the void, the space where nothing exists, or rather that thin space between something and nothing. Numerically Voidamancy is the infinite space that exists in the decimals between zero and one.

    The simplest spell for a Voidamancer is to touch a unit and magically cause it to disband.

    The most common physical spells for a voidamancer to use is to create weather, not cloud-stuff nor to replace a material with air like a dirtamancer, but to create moving weather and air/cloud golems. Voidamancers can also create light golems, golems made out of light that, like etsy's, basically can't do anything but can deal one damage when they bodily hit another being, self-destructing as they do so. Light golems are... well, they look like a rubber pom ball but made of light and without a core.

    Voidamancers though have access to "the void" where nothing can live but where one may escape for a short while. Voidamancers can use this to "avoid" damage from physical attacks (but does nothing against magical ones).

    Voidamancers have a sense for the existance of beings. To a voidamancer, life is a collection of numbers greater than the void (the space between zero and one) stacked together, the greater the unit the more the numbers. These units create a tension, a tension that is released when the unit no longer exists, releasing their "numbers" of existance back into the void. But Voidamancers do not see this alone as a good thing. The release of tension is like putting manure into soil, it opens space for new units, thus the cycle repeats itself, with "the void" existing between the two sides of this cycle.

    Possible voidamancers.

    "Eleven" (Stranger things) - as she has the ability to access "the void" (the upside down).
    "Tobi" (Naruto) - again, has the ability to access "the void" and uses it to escape harm.
    "Thanos" (Marvel) - one snap and he disbands half the universe (with some help).

    That's all I could come up with for now.

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     Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:04 am 
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    I like the idea of Voidamancy. I think, in a lot of fiction, it's an interesting idea, especially for a Villain.
    But, I think for Erfworld, there's some mechanical issues. What you're describing is Disbanding a unit, which is a power held solely, specifically, by Rulers. In many ways, it's a Ruler's strongest ability.

    If I were to push aside "OMG Powercreep on RUlers, plz NRF," what you're describing could, in my mind, be achieved by a high-level Mathamancer. With a touch, a Mathamancer could simply change a unit's Existence Value from 1 to 0.

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     Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:59 am 
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    Burley wrote:
    I like the idea of Voidamancy. I think, in a lot of fiction, it's an interesting idea, especially for a Villain.
    But, I think for Erfworld, there's some mechanical issues. What you're describing is Disbanding a unit, which is a power held solely, specifically, by Rulers. In many ways, it's a Ruler's strongest ability.

    If I were to push aside "OMG Powercreep on RUlers, plz NRF," what you're describing could, in my mind, be achieved by a high-level Mathamancer. With a touch, a Mathamancer could simply change a unit's Existence Value from 1 to 0.


    Hmm... maybe, but there are several (or at least a few) abilities units have that are natural forms of various magics. Rulers can issue orders to units from a distance via natural thinkamancy, scouts possess some forms of natural lookamancy, etc.

    Giving a caster type the ability to disband another unit at a touch is, IMO not much more OP than a thinkamancer cutting another unit's string with a touch.

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     Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:53 pm 
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    Arci wrote:
    Giving a caster type the ability to disband another unit at a touch is, IMO not much more OP than a thinkamancer cutting another unit's string with a touch.


    I would argue it's more OP because there's no body left to de-pop via natural Dirtamancy. It removes a Croakamancer's necessary components and leaves nothing for Attuned Wanda to decrypt.
    With what you've described, I imagine you'd be doing a mix of a few combinations Shockmancy, Thinkamancy, Date-a-mancy and Dirtamancy. Like, I'd be more interested in seeing a Shockmancer create a lightning storm, or even an energy golem.

    In any case, I'm not necessarily arguing that it's OP, just that it doesn't seem like it's own school of magic. Retconjuration is the magic of rewriting existence (including removing something from existence).

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     Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:43 pm 
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    Burley wrote:
    In any case, I'm not necessarily arguing that it's OP, just that it doesn't seem like it's own school of magic. Retconjuration is the magic of rewriting existence (including removing something from existence).


    It's also a titanic power, of which there are many, and only Retconjuration is "special" (short-bus) enough to invade into the realm of mundane magic.

    Also, almost any kind of magic will have aspects that appear to bleed into other magics, but that only by some of the spells they do.

    Both dollamancy and dirtamancy utilize some aspects of each other whenever either discipline creates a golem. I don't think I even need to go over the bleed-over between the three eyemancy disciplines. Datamancy, signamancy and thinkamancy are all disciplines with at least some emphasis (and hence some crossover) with communication. Hat-magic and findamancy both move object (units?) from one place to another. etc.

    But the core, does the core aspect cross with the core aspect of another discipline? For Voidamancy I don't think so.

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     Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:53 pm 
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    the thing is that "voidmancy" already existed, my friend. When the comic started out, the school was called "Deletionism" but got upgraded to retconjuration when the needed arised.

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     Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:36 pm 
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    Vendanna wrote:
    the thing is that "voidmancy" already existed, my friend. When the comic started out, the school was called "Deletionism" but got upgraded to retconjuration when the needed arised.


    Deletionism got deleted, and Retconjuration took it's place. Ergo, if Retconjuration got retconned out of existance (or at least, out of it's current position) something else, not necessarily Deletionism, could replace it.

    And besides, once Retconjuration is gone, all that's left is an empty... Void.

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     Post Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:15 am 
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    The only way you could retcon a class of magic away or into something else is with Retconjuration.

    Actually, I think Voidmancy and Shockamancy could be the same school, facets of the same token. Shockamancers are all about the manipulation of juice and it could be a guarded secret that they can not only manipulate their own juice, but the juice of other units. If, with a touch, I could violently draw juice out of an enemy unit, the entropic force would cause a unit to crumble into a near singularity, nigh indistinguishable from depoping.

    Possibly, as we see the Towers "stealing" juice from the Source, we could see Shockamancers rise up in prominence, to fill the vacuum by returning unused energy back or, in a cool alt-futurist fan-fic, a barbarian Shockamancer who hunts down OP and Baddie casters, returning their stolen juice to the Source.

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     Post Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:54 pm 
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    Burley wrote:
    The only way you could retcon a class of magic away or into something else is with Retconjuration.


    Heh heh heh... we've seen a few times where links between casters can create effects previously thought to be Titanic Only. Sizemore even admitted that he felt like such at the end of the first book.

    Also, I use the term "Retcon Retconjuration" loosely, it wouldn't really get retconned, just removed and put back where it's supposed to be.

    Ironically, I imagine that the best linkup to perform this would be Weirdomancy-thinkamancy-carnymancy... a spell combination that should sound a little familiar.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:15 am 
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    Sure, a link-up could effectively emulate a school of magic to which none of the linked members belong.

    But, you're proposing a school of magic, not a link-up. Not an emulation.

    This is a self-fulfilling prophecy thing, here. In order to permanently change established rules of the game (not bend, not break, but change), Retconjuration is the requisite. To change Retconjuration into something else, by definition, you must use Retconjuration.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 3:36 pm 
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    I've got an unfinished story where the initial goal was to get a link-up between level 10 masters of those three schools to change a unit's type to Retconjurer.

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