Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Erfworld Things » Everything Else Erfworld




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Flagging interest..
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:33 pm 
Offline
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:16 pm
Posts: 4
ITT: My litany of complaints about erfworld. Yes I know complaining is childish, but dammit it makes me feel better and if enough people agree maybe we'll see a few changes.

I discovered this comic through giant in the playground (Order of the Stick) and I genuinely enjoyed the first "book" of the series. Nowadays, I don't know about the other erfworld fans, but I'm steadily losing interest in this comic. I really don't particularly care for any characters aside from Parson and Sizemore, the two characters we don't see or hear from at all anymore. The whole Jillian/Ansom/Wanda thing bores me to tears, and the only new character I was beginning to like just got killed off.. thanks to the meddling of the nigh-on-invincible Charlie and the direct interference of Jillian.

Incidentally, Charlie's status as the all powerful master of the arkendish bugs the hell out of me. He strikes me as just a little bit too much of a deus-ex-machina for the writers - after all, just about everything Charlie has done in this comic has succeeded.

I just don't understand why we've sidelined the only genuinely likable characters in favor of the prima-donna's and their bizarre love triangle. Or why one side (Charlie) should be untouchable.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:48 pm 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:21 pm
    Posts: 102
    Charlie is a consummate Chessmaster. Frankly, I don't think he COULD be written any other way - I mean, even the least competent, strategy-wise, forumer here could, with the powers the Arkendish give, and with enough time, could be a muderous, devious, powerful opponent. You might not like the character and invoke Deus Ex Machina, but it makes sense both in internal logic and storytelling logic for an intelligent, determined Attuned Overlord with plenty of time to be a little unbalancing. Look at what Wanda and Stanley have accomplished in their limited time with their Arkentools. Notice, though, that he lost the Battle of GK, and given what just went down, I think he's going to be in some very deep boop.


    I'm not a huge Jillian fan either, so not blaming you there.

    Wanda and Ansom, though... I don't know what you dislike about them, aside from a vague notion of primmadonna-ism. I haven't seen it, but again, that's my perspective.

    _________________
    RIP, Grandma. <3
    Mar '29 - Oct '10


    Last edited by Rosa Vernal on Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:56 pm 
    User avatar
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user has been published! Armored Dwagon Monthly Winner Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user got funny with a rodent Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter This user is a Tool! Mined 4 Erf Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Spades Suit Pip Erfmover Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 3:45 am
    Posts: 1042
    I have a feeling you're going to soon see Charlie receive a comeuppance.

    Regarding the focus on the characters being on folks you're not particularly interested in, that just happens sometimes when you have a large ensemble of characters. The problem is exacerbated in a webcomic due to the serial nature of the medium and the longer wait between pages and story arcs. I might just be stating the obvious, but when I embrace that reality with eyes open, it tends to make it easier and give me more patience with the situation. YMMV, clearly.

    _________________
    Here's my "Charlie as Hitler" Downfall video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-EA8xQOf_s

    When you're a bat, you're a bat all the way. From your first starting stat, 'til the turn you decay.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:41 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:57 pm
    Posts: 236
    I_am_disappoint wrote:
    just about everything Charlie has done in this comic has succeeded.


    Are you kidding me? I can't remember a single time that Charlie has succeeded in this comic.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:57 pm 
    User avatar
    This user was a Tool before it was cool
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:33 pm
    Posts: 362
    I_am_disappoint wrote:
    ITT: My litany of complaints about erfworld. Yes I know complaining is childish, but dammit it makes me feel better and if enough people agree maybe we'll see a few changes.


    Don't let the existence of discussion forums lull you into believing that "Erfworld" is a democracy.

    It isn't.

    Art never is and never should be.

    These guys have a story to tell.

    If you don't like it, there are plenty of other out there you might like.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:35 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:56 pm
    Posts: 72
    Location: Manchester, UK
    Ehbobo wrote:
    I_am_disappoint wrote:
    just about everything Charlie has done in this comic has succeeded.


    Are you kidding me? I can't remember a single time that Charlie has succeeded in this comic.


    Turning the Giants to FAQ, but even that little plan may have been booped up with his latest stunt.

    _________________
    My life for Jetstone!
    Her vorpal blade went snicker-snack! as she croaked every dwagon in the stack.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:41 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:16 pm
    Posts: 4
    @Rosa Vernal, Ehbobo, Jabbersocky
    I suppose what bothers me is that Charlie can't truly "lose" in the traditional sense. His forces assist for a fee, so even if they "lose" it's just a business contract gone bad - no side dares "oppose him" as Haggar recently discovered, and from what I can tell, no one in the gobwin knob universe recognizes Charlie as the threat that he is, or if they do, they're too busy with petty squabbles to deal with the main threat - Charlie. Even if Jillian is pissed right now, she can't DO anything to Charlie - no one can. If this was an actual D&D game I'd call shenanigans on the DM's part, as someone like Charlie would throw the game balance way out of whack.

    *Edit* @Jabbersocky Actually, Charlie does have success with his plans, and he also seems to be bent on opposing Gobwin Knob, as he is responsible for the gobwins disappearing..

    @Ansan_Gotti
    Good point, that does make it somewhat easier.

    @gazes_also
    Sir, your clipped tone and firm "love it or leave it" stance chills me to the very bone.
    /sarcasm
    Sadly, art relies on patronage of some kind, so it is dependent on someone/something for it's existence. In this case it is dependent on a readerbase. I'm just pointing out that I'm becoming kinda of "meh" about the turn the comic has taken - and maybe I'm not the only one. As I did like erfworld I'd prefer to at least let my point be heard in the hopes (perhaps in vain, I don't know) that the story take a turn that again interests me. As it stands currently I wouldn't recommend erfworld to someone else and I may take your advice and just forget about this comic. Either way, I was hoping that a request could speed Parson's return to the Fray, since we seem to have left him out in the cold.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:13 am 
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:14 am
    Posts: 26
    I can agree to some point that yes, this most recent battle does seem to have a bit much of
    "I'm a super necromancer who's cruelty is unmatched... nah, I got some booped up mental issues, I won't kill you"
    "Oh ho! I too have booped up mental issues, but not with you! I now go after my true love!"
    "...Boopin Women."
    Not that it's a huge problem, but I'd like to see it wrapped up and get more than the three characters in there.


    As for the Charlie thing, I was almost disappointed in the Summer Updates when he seemed less competent, at least when dealing with Parson, than I had come to expect. Charlie is fun, if not incredibly powerful, but his loss at GK either messed with his head enough to throw him off his game, or there's somethin else at play.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:47 am 
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:56 pm
    Posts: 72
    Location: Manchester, UK
    I_am_disappoint wrote:
    @Rosa Vernal, Ehbobo, Jabbersocky
    I suppose what bothers me is that Charlie can't truly "lose" in the traditional sense. His forces assist for a fee, so even if they "lose" it's just a business contract gone bad - no side dares "oppose him" as Haggar recently discovered, and from what I can tell, no one in the gobwin knob universe recognizes Charlie as the threat that he is, or if they do, they're too busy with petty squabbles to deal with the main threat - Charlie. Even if Jillian is pissed right now, she can't DO anything to Charlie - no one can. If this was an actual D&D game I'd call shenanigans on the DM's part, as someone like Charlie would throw the game balance way out of whack.

    *Edit* @Jabbersocky Actually, Charlie does have success with his plans, and he also seems to be bent on opposing Gobwin Knob, as he is responsible for the gobwins disappearing..

    @Ansan_Gotti
    Good point, that does make it somewhat easier.

    @gazes_also
    Sir, your clipped tone and firm "love it or leave it" stance chills me to the very bone.
    /sarcasm
    Sadly, art relies on patronage of some kind, so it is dependent on someone/something for it's existence. In this case it is dependent on a readerbase. I'm just pointing out that I'm becoming kinda of "meh" about the turn the comic has taken - and maybe I'm not the only one. As I did like erfworld I'd prefer to at least let my point be heard in the hopes (perhaps in vain, I don't know) that the story take a turn that again interests me. As it stands currently I wouldn't recommend erfworld to someone else and I may take your advice and just forget about this comic. Either way, I was hoping that a request could speed Parson's return to the Fray, since we seem to have left him out in the cold.


    I'm also a fan of Parson but i really think his time out of the spotlight is necessary for both the overall story and his characterization. We know that hes really having issues and that he needs to see the need to lead again. So really all LIABF is the set up to his return. Also i think the story needed a calm before the storm of Parsons war due to the fact we needed to meet some major players before fighting this huge war to get perspective. All in all once the confusion really hits most likely next turn when Ansom trots away to firestone on his mistress order, Parson will be back in action.

    _________________
    My life for Jetstone!
    Her vorpal blade went snicker-snack! as she croaked every dwagon in the stack.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:18 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:58 pm
    Posts: 118
    I can get the complaint on Charlie. It seems a lot like whenever somebody can't fight Parson's strategies, Gobwin Knob, etc. legitimately, the ultimate solution is Charlescomm getting involved somehow.

    _________________
    Very Amazing Adventures (possibly inappropriate)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:37 am 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:21 pm
    Posts: 102
    I_am_disappoint wrote:
    I suppose what bothers me is that Charlie can't truly "lose" in the traditional sense. His forces assist for a fee, so even if they "lose" it's just a business contract gone bad


    Reputation is everything, too. Who'd pay for mercenaries that LOSE battles?

    Not to mention the PR hit from screwing TV at the Battle of GK. Which cost him. You just have to use other means of fighting other than direct.

    _________________
    RIP, Grandma. <3
    Mar '29 - Oct '10

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:54 am 
    User avatar
    Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:54 am
    Posts: 367
    This is an interesting take, because I consider Parson to be the most unbalanced character in Erfworld. That's in no way a critisism, because Rob's handling the balance with great precision.

    See in my mind, in book 1, the only things that kept Parson from just breezing through the battle were his ignorance of the world's rules, and the pre-made god-awful situation he had been dumped in.

    Since he ended book 1 (or rather, the summer updates) on a relatively high-note, complete with new city, new army etc, and his ignorance of the world's rules is now greatly reduced, he needs some kind of disadvantage to give him something challenging to do when the curtain is finally pulled back and he steps up.

    For this reason I totally see why he's been squashed for the first 20 pages - the story requires that Stanley, Ansom and Wanda allow for the creation of (if not directly create themselves) some juicy disaster or another. If it had been Parson in control from page one, whatever chaos is around the corner would probably have been prevented.

    So yeah, fully respecting your opinions and all, I think that if you sit tight and let this run its course for a while longer, you'll see a situation where Parson will put on a much more entertaining show.

    Having said that, Jillian is kinda letting me down at the moment. I got so buzzed over her with her Meglo's, and when they were squared off against the Dwagons I dont mind admitting that I weed a little. To see her turn away from that epic face off broke my heart. I hope we get to see her sword-swingy barbarian side soon...

    _________________
    No, no. It hit him in the brain because it killed him. - Dante

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:39 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:58 pm
    Posts: 118
    Rosa Vernal wrote:
    Reputation is everything, too. Who'd pay for mercenaries that LOSE battles?


    Remember that Charlescomm doesn't take battles that can be lost. If he fights, he wins. Gobwin Knob being extenuating circumstances. EVERYBODY but Gobwin Knob lost in the BfGK.

    Not to mention Charlie probably deals with more sides than we know exist. The region we know may only be a small part of Charlie's operations as a whole, depending on how large Erfworld is.

    Quote:
    Not to mention the PR hit from screwing TV at the Battle of GK. Which cost him. You just have to use other means of fighting other than direct.


    I don't think there's anything that says what Charlie did there was in some way damaging to him, or even out of the norm. It seems like it's kind of expected of him to change the price as he sees fit.

    Charlie's essentially untouchable until he does something so horrible nobody trusts him enough to hire him ever again. But by the time he does something like that, he'll probably have just revealed himself as the ultimate villain, and would be close to unstoppable anyways.

    Anyhow, the point of the matter's generally that Charlie and his forces are generally the go-to solution when Gobwin Knob "seems" to have the upper hand, and usually it comes out of nowhere, or very close to it. Deus ex machina applies most often to Charlie.

    _________________
    Very Amazing Adventures (possibly inappropriate)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:15 pm 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:21 pm
    Posts: 102
    Vinny Doombats wrote:
    So now Jetstone releases Charlescomm from merc service, you hire Charlie, and next turn we all meet up at the choke point.


    Caesar Borgata wrote:
    I came out... Because Charlie bent us over and tied a knot n' us. A quarter mil a turn? Pff.


    Charlie wrote:
    "In a nutshell? Talk to me." said Charlie quietly. "Look, Your Highness... no Royal side west or south of me will even take my calls, let alone hire me."


    Sounds like it hurt him there.

    _________________
    RIP, Grandma. <3
    Mar '29 - Oct '10

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:38 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:58 pm
    Posts: 118
    Rosa Vernal wrote:
    Sounds like it hurt him there.


    Those aren't related. The Royal sides don't trust Charlie because he has an Arkentool, and new power Gobwin Knob is holding Toolism as the better-than-Royals ideology. That's why he's involved in the fight in the first place: a powerful, Royal-hating Gobwin Knob is bad for business.

    _________________
    Very Amazing Adventures (possibly inappropriate)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:48 pm 
    User avatar
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user has been published! Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Won Mine4erf for the Marbits For when you need it most Was an active Tool on Free Cards Day Clubs Suit Pip Ruler of Erfworld Spades Suit Pip Diamonds Suit Pip Erfmover Supporter Arkenhammer Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:04 pm
    Posts: 158
    Location: Colorado
    I am constantly awaiting the newest Erfworld comic or text update. I do not in any way have flagging interest. I agree that recently the tone is differentish but its a story different chapters deal with different stuff. I always enjoy this comic and I find the constant requests to change it to be annoying. I am not saying it is perfect by any means, and some strips/updates are better or worse than others but it is good and consistantly. This is actually the only comic I read anymore as all the others have lost interst for me over time. I am months behind on Order of The Stick and I never stopped enjoying it. I do not post on any forums beside this one and in fact my friends were stunned to hear I was posting with any regularity on any forum at all. Thank you people that help make Erfworld in whatever capacity. To the Naysayers please cease and desist.

    _________________
    Check out my fanfic The Life and Adventures of Edelbert Spore I would love to hear what you think!

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:26 am 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:21 pm
    Posts: 102
    So there's absolutely no connection at all between screwing a RCCI member out of the chance to croak Stanley and then getting blacklisted by the RCC2. It's entirely because he has a Tool.

    Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

    _________________
    RIP, Grandma. <3
    Mar '29 - Oct '10

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:52 am 
    User avatar
    Year of the Dwagon Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:24 am
    Posts: 3447
    Salvage wrote:
    To the Naysayers please cease and desist.


    And to you I say- that is silly. Valid criticism, honest criticism is something no-one has the right to issue a cease and desist order about. And this thread at least seems started with honest criticism in mind.

    You are allowed degrees of enjoyment, you know.

    gazes_also wrote:
    Don't let the existence of discussion forums lull you into believing that "Erfworld" is a democracy.

    It isn't.

    Art never is and never should be.

    These guys have a story to tell.

    If you don't like it, there are plenty of other out there you might like.


    I agree with the first part, if there's anyone that can/should over-ride the authors occasionally, that is an editor who knows what they're doing and not a forum of random strangers.

    As for the second part, see above. Unflagging support is ... an ill thing to require.

    ========

    On Charlie and gods out of gearboxes-

    So Charlie occasionally loses Archons. He's got a cwapload of them anyway. And losing clients, while obviously putting the squeeze on him/her/it lately is not that big a deal, if you consider how big Erfworld is and how large the income from Thinkagrams. But that's not really the heart of the complaint.

    Charlie is too convenient for the plot. He/she/it has an army of superversatile units that (almost) always seem to have the best abilities to crack a situation. Then, there's the unparalleled intelligence bit, allowing Charlie to know exactly what, say, Haggar is doing. Then, there's that link abomination. Making Giants allied to Faq, and probably getting the Gobwins to go away too, all but convinces us (me, Oberon, I_am_disappoint here and a few others I'd bet) that Charlie is de plotto omnipotent, and only forgets that when the plot requires the other characters to be given a breather,

    It's NOT that Charlie is too powerful, or invincible. It's that Charlie could pull off anything in principle, because the principles are conveniently unspecified, and may be behind any unresolved plot issue, that makes him/she/it rather annoying.

    _________________
    The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:50 am 
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:57 pm
    Posts: 236
    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    On Charlie and gods out of gearboxes-

    So Charlie occasionally loses Archons. He's got a cwapload of them anyway. And losing clients, while obviously putting the squeeze on him/her/it lately is not that big a deal, if you consider how big Erfworld is and how large the income from Thinkagrams. But that's not really the heart of the complaint.

    Charlie is too convenient for the plot. He/she/it has an army of superversatile units that (almost) always seem to have the best abilities to crack a situation. Then, there's the unparalleled intelligence bit, allowing Charlie to know exactly what, say, Haggar is doing. Then, there's that link abomination. Making Giants allied to Faq, and probably getting the Gobwins to go away too, all but convinces us (me, Oberon, I_am_disappoint here and a few others I'd bet) that Charlie is de plotto omnipotent, and only forgets that when the plot requires the other characters to be given a breather,

    It's NOT that Charlie is too powerful, or invincible. It's that Charlie could pull off anything in principle, because the principles are conveniently unspecified, and may be behind any unresolved plot issue, that makes him/she/it rather annoying.


    I half agree with you. Yes, Charlie seems to be capable of doing anything, in theory. What I love about his character, though, is seeing Charlie pull off these brilliant and powerful maneuvers and then watching Parson fight back and be victorious. The power struggle between these two is my favorite aspect of Erfworld, and I'd hate it if Charlie were to try something and outright fail without Parson's intervention.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Flagging interest..
     Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:13 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:58 pm
    Posts: 118
    Rosa Vernal wrote:
    So there's absolutely no connection at all between screwing a RCCI member out of the chance to croak Stanley and then getting blacklisted by the RCC2. It's entirely because he has a Tool.


    Um, yeah.

    Read a little more into that part you quoted:

    Quote:
    "In a nutshell? Talk to me." said Charlie quietly. "Look, Your Highness... no Royal side west or south of me will even take my calls, let alone hire me."

    "So? Work for Stanley," Jillian sneered. "You already are, is what I hear."

    "It's not true!" Charlie suddenly exclaimed. "Slately is telling people that to scare them into the Coalition!" It actually sounded like Charlie's composure cracked, at least a little bit.


    No mention of Charlie's gouging comes into play.

    Nailing the coffin shut:

    Quote:
    Jillian tried to look around at the green valley, to get her bearings. Thinkagrams were disorienting. She patted the megalogwiff's fat neck. What game was Charlie really playing at this point? You never knew. "Look, Charlie, I'm gonna be blunt here. From what I hear, everyone assumes you're with Stanley, because of your attunement. Every Royal side is treating this as the War of the Arkentools."

    _________________
    Very Amazing Adventures (possibly inappropriate)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ] 

    Board index » Erfworld Things » Everything Else Erfworld


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to: