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 Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:31 pm 
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DevilDan wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:
Simons Mith wrote:
Wanda has a heart??

Of course she has a heart. It's controlling, black and twisted, but I think she loved Jillian, in her own evil way.


And it was a way that Jillian seemed to enjoy.


I don't think she's black and twisted. I think she's just a bad ass. And in the end, she'll be on parson's side.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:35 pm 
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    i wonder why Wanda and Stanley doesnt unite their forces. her decrypted riding his dragons (perhaps this would make the force multipliers even greater?)

    also:
    since u can decrypt warlords (we know his from Ansom) every warlord she/he/they kill she can decrypt, boosting a said stack even more or lead another group of decrypted dragon riders

    and what if she were to decrypt a dragon? im guessing she will be the on controlling it, but would Stanley still apply his bonus to the dragon (or does he add his full bonus to a stack regardless?), and would he be able to tame it back?


    a decrypted dragonrider dancefighting(rock) would be kinda cool ^^

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:23 pm 
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    gukolai wrote:
    i wonder why Wanda and Stanley doesnt unite their forces. her decrypted riding his dragons (perhaps this would make the force multipliers even greater?)


    The in-game answer is because you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. They cannot afford to lose Stanley. If he was lost, then they all go Barbarian since there is no heir designate.

    The real answer is probably because the plot doesn't call for it. It does call for character growth and some examples of how Parson is bonding a litle and learning how to deal with Stanley.


    gukolai wrote:
    also:
    since u can decrypt warlords (we know his from Ansom) every warlord she/he/they kill she can decrypt, boosting a said stack even more or lead another group of decrypted dragon riders

    and what if she were to decrypt a dragon? im guessing she will be the on controlling it, but would Stanley still apply his bonus to the dragon (or does he add his full bonus to a stack regardless?), and would he be able to tame it back?

    a decrypted dragonrider dancefighting(rock) would be kinda cool ^^


    I believe the concept of 'being tamed' means that the dwagons are allied with GK. This was evident in that they will obey orders from Warlords. If you are talking about whose order supercedes whose, I believe that has yet to be explicitly determined. There is, I believe, natural Duty and Loyalty to Stanley even though they may look to Wanda as their leader. Ergo, there would be no need to 'tame it back'.

    I also believe Stanley's bonus applies to whomever is on his side. I believe the only cases where the type of unit matters when applying bonuses is in cases of Decrypted, Golems, and perhaps Archons. A decrypted dwagon would benefit from both Leadership and applicable caster bonuses.

    Now if a decrypted dwagon went rogue (indubitably at Wanda's behest) it would be interesting to know if a decrypted Dwagon could be 're-tamed' by the ArkenHammer. That would be choice intel if they ever decide to send Archons against Charlie (assuming that Charlie can tame wild archons. what? Of course there are wild archons. I think I have a video about them. no wait. its just "girls in airline stewardess outfits gone wild".. never mind)

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 pm 
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    You know, the one person we haven't seen anything about yet is Jack.

    He doesn't seem to be with Wanda, so presumably he's at GK. What's he up to? A chat between him and Parson could be very interesting.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:14 am 
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    he's been in every update. he doesn't say much

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:47 am 
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    name lips wrote:
    I like this line of questioning, though. Parson apparently can't follow orders he doesn't understand -- unlike most units, who instinctively know exactly what their Duty is.

    I think it's not quite what you've said (and forgive me if someone else has already brought this up), but ...

    ... I think Duty only compels you to perform your assigned task to the best of your ability AND UNDERSTANDING ...!

    Since Parson didn't know that he had to physically inspect operations within the city, he wasn't compelled to do so; as far as he knew, all that he had to do to apply his bonus was be present in the city, and assigned to that task. Within the constraints of his understanding, he did put forth the required effort and action to be fully successful.

    That is perhaps what separates NATURAL Thinkamancy from IMPOSED Thinkamancy: one's own understanding of the Rules, affects how the Rules act upon you.

    ...

    ...

    Which has some really INTERESTING implications for what Parson's future contains for him. Remember, the idea of HIS game was "the only way to win, is by breaking the rules". But if you simply break the rules, without somehow still staying WITHIN the system ... you aren't playing the game anymore.

    Thus, to "break" the Rules, you have to change your interpretation of them ... IOW, change how you understand them.

    :shock: Wow. That could lead into some seriously deep areas of contemplation on the nature of Erfworld.

    ...

    Anyway, back to Parson and his assigned role in GK: now that he KNOWS what he has to do to apply that Warlord bonus, I'll bet you dollars to donuts, his Duty will compel him to get up and sally forth, each and every day. Possibly, once he sees how things ACTUALLY proceed, to start suggesting some improvements that will give GK some "off the books" bonusses to it's income.

    Which is yet another way of (sort of) breaking the Rules ... or at least, re-interpreting them to find chinks, cracks, loopholes, and other spaces with a bit of 'wiggle room" to be exploited ...

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:38 am 
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    joosy wrote:
    gukolai wrote:
    i wonder why Wanda and Stanley doesnt unite their forces. her decrypted riding his dragons (perhaps this would make the force multipliers even greater?)


    The in-game answer is because you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. They cannot afford to lose Stanley. If he was lost, then they all go Barbarian since there is no heir designate.

    The real answer is probably because the plot doesn't call for it. It does call for character growth and some examples of how Parson is bonding a litle and learning how to deal with Stanley.


    Until this turn Stanley only had 7 dwagons, and 2 of them where with Wanda. I don't think they could send more with her for security reasons, even if Stanley trusted Wanda. Their next neighbour is Transylvito with its flying warlords and bats. A serious strike from them with full power, meaning Transylvito style with skanks instead of bats could be enough to take GK or at least cause serious damage.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:09 am 
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    The Shadow wrote:
    You know, the one person we haven't seen anything about yet is Jack.

    He doesn't seem to be with Wanda, so presumably he's at GK. What's he up to? A chat between him and Parson could be very interesting.


    I also am greatly anticipating this conversation. Jack is so far my favorite character, as seen by my picture. I tend to like the weird crazy outsider. Also realize he is the ONLY powerful crucial unit of GK that Parson hasn't talked to. He so far seems hell bent on learning all he can about erfworld, quizing Sizemore, Wanda, Stanley, Maggie, Misty when she was alive, and even Bogroll and Zhopa about the nature of the world. But he has yet to speak to Jack, at least not outright, he might have outside the read story. Its my belief jack is far more powerful and smarter then hes been given credit for. Remember the link break killed Misty, but only made Jack go crazy meaning he was far more powerful and able to resist the break. Plus there's a whole other side to the Wanda/Ansom/Jillian love triangle, Jack is in love with Jillian, as the geeky chess club guy is in love with the head cheerleader.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:17 am 
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    what kind of geek chess club kid loves the walking petri dish that is a cheerleader? here's a hint the attractive ones in school are dog ugly by reunion time.

    i do wonder what is in store for jack as we have a complex enough set of relationships throughout erfworld already to accomodate another unrequitted love. his loyalty to stanley seems likely.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:20 am 
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    joosy wrote:
    I also believe Stanley's bonus applies to whomever is on his side. I believe the only cases where the type of unit matters when applying bonuses is in cases of Decrypted, Golems, and perhaps Archons. A decrypted dwagon would benefit from both Leadership and applicable caster bonuses.


    It is possible that Stanley (or at least the hammer) adds an extra bonus just to Dwagons.

    Quote:
    Now if a decrypted dwagon went rogue (indubitably at Wanda's behest) it would be interesting to know if a decrypted Dwagon could be 're-tamed' by the ArkenHammer.


    He should get a bonus when fighting against them at the very least. Also, a single touch with the hammer knocks out a dwagon for the rest of the turn. That is probably the hammer equivalent of the pliers insta-killing undead.

    Quote:
    That would be choice intel if they ever decide to send Archons against Charlie (assuming that Charlie can tame wild archons. what? Of course there are wild archons. I think I have a video about them. no wait. its just "girls in airline stewardess outfits gone wild".. never mind)


    It is unclear how Archons pop. Jillian called them "moths". Maybe the dish powers them up or something. They do seem to be illusions/pure thinkamancy.

    The dish may allow Charlie to insta-kill them, even if he can't regain control.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:30 am 
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    Sokrotes wrote:
    Remember the link break killed Misty, but only made Jack go crazy meaning he was far more powerful and able to resist the break.


    Not necessarily. Misty may have been killed due to Parson's actions. By calling her by name, he may have weakened her resistance.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:42 am 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    Sokrotes wrote:
    Remember the link break killed Misty, but only made Jack go crazy meaning he was far more powerful and able to resist the break.


    Not necessarily. Misty may have been killed due to Parson's actions. By calling her by name, he may have weakened her resistance.


    Hmm... Is it possible that the action of speaking to an Erfworlder and calling them by their name, reminds the Erfworlder who they are, rather than just being "a thing that performs a function"... and upon being reminded that they are a person, and not a "thing" - their focus of thought becomes diverted, as a natural consequence of "thinking for themselves".

    Perhaps this is what actually happened to Misty, and the resistance factor is purely a concentration factor... And perhaps if Jack had been distracted during the link-up before it broke and made him crazy, he would've possibly croaked like Misty..

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:26 am 
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    Good grief, "moths" was just a metaphor.

    If they can be croaked and leave corpses, I'm pretty sure they're not illusion... wow, I shouldn't even bother arguing some of this stuff.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:40 am 
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    KiltedNinja wrote:
    Hmm... Is it possible that the action of speaking to an Erfworlder and calling them by their name, reminds the Erfworlder who they are, rather than just being "a thing that performs a function"... and upon being reminded that they are a person, and not a "thing" - their focus of thought becomes diverted, as a natural consequence of "thinking for themselves".


    Dunno, but a big deal was made about not calling a caster by name when linked up.

    Quote:
    And perhaps if Jack had been distracted during the link-up before it broke and made him crazy, he would've possibly croaked like Misty..


    Also, Maggie might have made a judgement call and figured he was more valuable than Misty.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:44 am 
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    DevilDan wrote:
    Good grief, "moths" was just a metaphor.


    I don't see why she used it though. Granted it could just be that she was trying to find a word that began with M and flys, and there was a pause..

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:36 pm 
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    He's making Stan happy and it might be good to have a force that isn't under Wanda's control. She served Stanley cause he was helping her. Now that she has her tool anyone else smelling a possible coup?

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:48 pm 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    DevilDan wrote:
    Good grief, "moths" was just a metaphor.


    I don't see why she used it though. Granted it could just be that she was trying to find a word that began with M and flys, and there was a pause..


    That was always my assumption: she wanted to continue the alliteration and thought that moths, as it refers to creatures that flitter about and are annoying, would serve; she wasn't happy with the choice of words, hence her look in that panel.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:05 pm 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    He should get a bonus when fighting against them at the very least. Also, a single touch with the hammer knocks out a dwagon for the rest of the turn. That is probably the hammer equivalent of the pliers insta-killing undead.

    the pliers did NOT insta kill uncroaked.

    they turned MOST uncroaked to dust

    this heavily implies they are simply killing low level uncroaked easily. NOT that they are some croakamancy destroying tool. ansom was a lavel 10 royal, chief warlord with an artifact bonus. he killed most everything in one hit with the things.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:38 pm 
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    I wish you the best of luck, MOD, but most people seem to be happy at this point to take the arkenpliers-croakamancy link as gospel truth. Maybe the facts will prove that popular idea incorrect, but you're Canute-like struggle doesn't register with most here.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:30 pm 
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    DevilDan wrote:
    I wish you the best of luck, MOD, but most people seem to be happy at this point to take the arkenpliers-croakamancy link as gospel truth. Maybe the facts will prove that popular idea incorrect, but you're Canute-like struggle doesn't register with most here.

    To be fair, there hasn't been much evidence to the contrary. They destroy uncroaked units more thoroughly than other weapons (we've seen no other weapon dust the uncroaked), then they attuned to a croakamancer, and their special ability when wielded by an attuned user is to repop the croaked...That's a pretty compelling set of coincidences, IMO.

    It's possible that they're broadly Fate-aligned, or that the power bestowed by an Arkentool is dependent on the wielder, not the tool...but IMO the Arkenpliers im-ply (haha) that the latter not the case. The counterargument appears to be based on an adverb. :P

    If I were forced to, I'd wager that they deal bonus damage to the uncroaked and, if the pliers deal enough damage to recroak the unit, turn it to dust completely.

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