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 Post subject: Re: Erfabet
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:24 pm 
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Yeah, it doesn't quite look like Wanda, particularly do to her having short hair. But that is probably just the signamancy of her current outfit. The face doesn't look quite right either, but I am sure the artist will improve on that. I would rather the artist be able to produce things at a quick pace, then stall do to perfectionism.


And I like the rhyme. I don't think you can come up with better words to describe the essense of what Wanda is.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:44 pm 
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    I think the reason the face looks wrong (which I think is part of what's throwing people off), in more precise terms, is that other than Xin's Magic Kingdom & Book 0 versions, Wanda's head/face is more angular than most other people. Note the un-rounded face in Book 1 or Book 2. She has a very angular and "narrow" face and pointed chin with little rounding of the cheeks or jaw line. Compare her to this version of the goth Alice in wonderland video game. Anyway, that's my art critique.
    Edit* Another, better Alice picture. They look rather similar as you can see.

    Edit** Also she has a super pointy chin? Even when she was a bobble head?
    Edit*** also she normally has a rather thin neck?

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    Last edited by Shai hulud on Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:14 pm 
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    The face is completely different from either Jaime's version or Xin's. I liked most of the drawings and there were a few that I thought could be better, but Wanda is the first one in which I would not have recognized the character if not for the caption and context.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:16 pm 
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    My 2 cents--

    Wanda doesn't look like Wanda. Very concur.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:43 pm 
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    We've got a second look at Wanda now. I think this one is more in line with previous images of Wanda.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:19 am 
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    But my question is (in the context of Lwanda Vs Wwanda) is this because we have a reproduction of a previous scene or not?

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:29 am 
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    I concur that neither of the pictures of Wanda really look like Wanda (the most recent one is better, to the point where I'd at least recognize it as her, but something is still off about her jaw.) But remember, part of the purpose of this book and its drawings is to give David Hahn a chance to learn how to draw Erfworld, so it's to be expected that there would be some initial rough edges -- better for him to work through it in that book than in the actual comic.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:49 am 
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    Well there is retoconjuration, she always looked like that hehe. Or signamancy has gone disfunctional.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:24 am 
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    Second Wanda is better Wanda.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:30 am 
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    the_tick_rules wrote:
    Well there is retoconjuration, she always looked like that hehe. Or signamancy has gone disfunctional.


    I believe that to be an extremely lame way to "explain" art differences/failures.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:00 pm 
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    New Wanda is considerably better. The most noticeable difference now is that the lines delineating, particularly lips and noses on these characters are significantly sharper, harder, thicker than they used to be. Still, maybe I'll get used to that in time. Perhaps Wanda's just the character most affected because of her habit of wearing white lipstick.

    I do wonder whether the difference in line thickness might actually improve the look of the comic when it's in print. That might be a possibility...

    Edit: Oh, forgot to mention, something that looks like an art error to me - the laces(?) around Wanda's waist look instead like a flesh-coloured band. I kinda feel it ought to be coloured in.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:45 pm 
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    Looking at the original art, the laces should be red. But I don't think it's a huge problem. If you could see her below the waist, the pattern would be clearer.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:01 pm 
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    Better Wanda is better! But what's all this talk about her face being all "thin and angular" throughout the books? She's always had a fuller ... whatever you call the distance between the cheekbones, and a pointy chin. Not exactly a "heart-shaped face" as the saying goes, but definitely a non-thin one.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:11 am 
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    LordAcme wrote:
    Better Wanda is better! But what's all this talk about her face being all "thin and angular" throughout the books? She's always had a fuller ... whatever you call the distance between the cheekbones, and a pointy chin. Not exactly a "heart-shaped face" as the saying goes, but definitely a non-thin one.


    That was her signamancy while she was working under Olive Branch. The reasons should be obvious.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:04 am 
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    My $ .02 on the art (not meant to be disparaging, just observations):

    Eyes:

    I believe that the whole FAQ vs. other eyes thing is a "reverse stereotype" joke on Jamie's part. Wanda and Jillian both come from tribes with "Asian" features/cultures. Manga and Anime as artforms have a long tradition of using generic features and differentiating characters by odd coloring. I think Jamie twisted it a bit, and threw in a joke about "Round-eyes" from the perspective of someone looking out through eyes with epicanthic folds, to whit: All Erfworlders have pupil-less eyes with large irises. "European" and "African" tribes have "animal" (no whites showing) very round eyes, and "Asian" tribes have "human" (whites showing) more normally- proportioned eyes. I think this is a jab at most comics' portrayals of Asian characters with slitted eyes (or exaggeratedly slanted/tilted eyes, etc.), a way to promote uniqueness of art style, and to set up a way for Jillian to look like a classic Blonde Valkyrie and still be demonstrably of the same phenotype as her fellow tribe members. Also, Wanda's ice-blue eyes are striking, but not out of place for what's important for phenotypic consistency (because they have obvious whites).

    So, in Erf profiling, Parson is "Asian"!

    Comparatives:

    Jamie's minimalist art was a way of making his *not* minimalist expressions stand out all the more. Wanda's face was highly expressive (especially the looks of sneering disgust).

    Xin's style has been a lot less expressive (in fact, Wanda has been eerily quiet throughout most of the MK scenes), but her Wanda is *prettier* (except for the whole awful Bride of Frankenstein look [awful taste-wise, not execution-wise]), and her expressions tend to make her look *nicer*, which makes her somewhat more tolerable (and makes the Book 0 Wanda more believable).

    The Second Wanda of David Hahn's (interesting analysis about her sexualized placement, by the way) is not as prettily drawn as Xin's, nor is she quite as nicely-proportioned (disproportionate head aside) as Jamie's, despite the "male view". But, the thing that disturbs me most about her is her mouth. Dh's style of drawing mouths seems to be a bit like that of Dave Reddick (The Legend of Bill), which on the more prosaic characters makes them look more humorous (appropriately so), but on Wanda makes her look far too goofy for her character on a number of levels.

    Also, Jamie's body position and motion was in tune with his expression. Xin's was equally more reserved by comparison, but seemed to both fit the story and seemed to be comfortable within her lexicon. DH doesn't yet convey a sense of comfort with what the characters are doing yet (that is almost certainly correctable through experience with the characters).

    Wanda is jarring for me because her character is so nuanced through the art that if anything is the least little bit off, it's glaring. I don't envy DH having so high a bar with that character to shoot for.

    I will say that most of the other characters have been almost eerily well conceived, easily recognizable and well done. I think Wanda (and to a lesser extent Jillian) need a fair amount more work (and thought) before they'll be ready to carry the visual load they need to, but they're the only obvious exceptions.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:05 pm 
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    I am seriously impressed with the speed with which David's style is evolving. Nothing to complain about with today's picture!

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:38 pm 
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    LordAcme wrote:
    Better Wanda is better! But what's all this talk about her face being all "thin and angular" throughout the books? She's always had a fuller ... whatever you call the distance between the cheekbones, and a pointy chin. Not exactly a "heart-shaped face" as the saying goes, but definitely a non-thin one.
    I just meant compared to the other version of her, not that she had super cheekbones like Maggie or anything like that.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:39 pm 
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    It's the mouths. The mouths are killing me. I loved the initial Erfabet posts, but that last few mouths on the characters (second Wanda, the "F" Parson and even a little bit the Marie) are just lines. One of the great things about both Jaime's and Xin's art was the facial expressions, and these feel like they have sort of been phoned in artistically. David, not sure if you're reading these, but if you can just put a tiny more detail in the "mouth art" (I can't believe I just typed that), I think you'll have all of the pieces in place. I'm really forward to seeing your work in the next book!

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:20 pm 
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    Better Parson is better! If David is reading this, nice direction you're going in.

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     Post subject: Re: Erfabet
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:25 pm 
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    Shai_hulud wrote:
    LordAcme wrote:
    Better Wanda is better! But what's all this talk about her face being all "thin and angular" throughout the books? She's always had a fuller ... whatever you call the distance between the cheekbones, and a pointy chin. Not exactly a "heart-shaped face" as the saying goes, but definitely a non-thin one.
    I just meant compared to the other version of her, not that she had super cheekbones like Maggie or anything like that.


    Ah. She kind of started to grow (or show) them when she was starved though - http://www.erfworld.com/2013/01/inner-p ... isode-058/. Still liked Jamie's smooth round-face Wanda the best myself :)

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