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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am 
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Titansboopit guys why is EVERYTHING about this story is credited to BOOPING FATE or Charlie? :D

Seriously, I'm trying to stay ignorant but these forums enlighten me. All this fate boop really gets on my nerves.

I'm afraid of some apparently ultra lame mechanic called "fate" destroying a well-told story.
When I think of that, I become angry and start screaming "GET LOST, FATE".
Then I notice I hate this thing called "fate" and being aware of that makes me suffer.

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You have just witnessed me, a toolist, falling to dark side..

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JadedDragoon wrote:
I was hoping we could debate the meaning of "agent" in the the Declaration of Non-Aggression again. It totally hasn't been argued to death already.

You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:16 am 
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    Olive turning might happen. She can stipulate that if she were to turn immediately, thousands of units would lose their Life, which would be anathema to both her discipline and the credo of the court. However, the cost of maintaining all of those cities would be too much of a strain on Faq's treasury, as well as makingthem extremely public; a bubble kingdom cannot have 69 cities and hope to keep them all veiled, even with a master class foolamancer. But if she were to be allowed to dissolve Haffaton by promoting warlords and spinning off new Sides, once the last city was ensured to be safe under a Ruler, she could turn. Those new sides could be the start of the RCC. We may even see Olive return as one of the main villians in Book 3 (with a title like Family Matters, dealing with the family dysfunction of Jillian/Ansom/heir, Charlie/Olive, Stanley and a newly popped heir, Don King/Caesar/new heir).

    Or her defense can be an abuse of 'logic'. Wanda accuses Olive of regicide. Wanda recently turned to Faq and wants Olive to turn to Faq. Olive in Faq is still capable of regicide. Logical conclusion, Wanda wants Olive to kill Banhammer. Secondary conclusion, Wanda is corrupt and evil (just look at what she does to her fallen enemies), and only seeks destruction. Second set of 'logic': Olive turns to Faq and commits regicide. Wanda does bad things with corpses. Wanda will do bad things with Banhammer's corpse once Olive commits regicide. This argument could go very badly for Wanda, especially as much as the Court likes to divide into small groups and chatter philosophically about things.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:44 pm 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    Those new sides could be the start of the RCC. We may even see Olive return as one of the main villians in Book 3 (with a title like Family Matters, dealing with the family dysfunction of Jillian/Ansom/heir, Charlie/Olive, Stanley and a newly popped heir, Don King/Caesar/new heir).

    As interesting as this theory is, Transvylto has already been mentioned to exist at this time, and I doubt Haffaton has enough turned Royals on the side to form even half of the RCC.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:41 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    I doubt Haffaton has enough turned Royals on the side to form even half of the RCC.
    They would only need one Royal per side, and Haffaton is a huge side. Another question is why would the turned Royals be made the rulers of the splinter sides? Just because they are Royals? Something tells me that Banhammer isn't made of the same stuff as Jetstone Royals. It's also possible they might give each side to a member of the Faq court

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:40 pm 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Also, consider this. Even if Olive could, and did turn, that wouldn't be the end of Jillian's fate. The capitol city that they just captured is also called Haffaton. Loj Banhammer is the new Ruler. That is a way Fate could course correct. We know it won't, because Jillian is far away when Faq falls, but that is a loophole that fate could exploit.


    Actually the Capital Site they captured is El-Efbaum. The side of Haffaton still has its capitol of Haffaton. Loj in no way imaginable is the Ruler of Haffaton.

    Also this could create an opening for Fate to pull a switch up. Olive converts. A barbarian warlord captures it and lacking imagination calls his new side Haffaton. Or another side captures Haffaton and spins off another side that is unimaginatively called Haffaton.

    Finally even if Faq sacks and abondons the capitol of Haffaton, the site may carry the name as of "Ruins of Haffaton" until it is renamed. So the barbarian or other side option could be valid for many, many years.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:52 pm 
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    arin wrote:
    I wonder, do we know for sure that the prediction for Jillian to kill Olive has actually occurred? I could easily see Olive turning to Faq, eventually turning to Charlescomm or some other side, and Jillian's fateful swing being in the future rather than the past. Probably not, but it's an interesting thing to speculate about.


    Another consideration is that the Prediction just says that Jillian will kill the Ruler of Faq. I do not think that means that it has to be the "current sitting" Ruler of Faq.

    I do not particularly buy into the theory that Olive = Janis. But there is room for Olive to have joined Faq, service to Faq softened her, she persuaded Loj to let her leave Faq to preach to the Magic Kingdom, and then her signamancy drifted and she used signamancy to change her name.

    One thing I am curious about. Has the Magic Kingdom be refferenced in Book Zero yet?

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:27 pm 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    I doubt Haffaton has enough turned Royals on the side to form even half of the RCC.
    They would only need one Royal per side, and Haffaton is a huge side. Another question is why would the turned Royals be made the rulers of the splinter sides? Just because they are Royals? Something tells me that Banhammer isn't made of the same stuff as Jetstone Royals. It's also possible they might give each side to a member of the Faq court


    Yeah, I agree with this. The one redeeming factor really I find about Banhammer is that despite his philosophies of Love, Justice and whatever-they're-called he doesn't have a philosophy regarding the Royal's supposed mandate to rule and be superior. Jillian seems to take after him in that respect, at least in a more vicious, vocal way.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:38 pm 
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    OH GOD! Why the hell are they holding the trial in a GODDAMN GARDEN?

    Is everyone forgetting why she is so deadly? I dont think she is going to give up so easily

    I hope this wont end badly for the court of Faq.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:02 pm 
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    babypolis wrote:
    OH GOD! Why the hell are they holding the trial in a GODDAMN GARDEN?

    Is everyone forgetting why she is so deadly? I dont think she is going to give up so easily

    I hope this wont end badly for the court of Faq.


    It was Wanda's suggestion, and she of all people would be well aware of Olive's abilities. Maybe Wanda wants Olive to try something so there is an excuse to cut her down.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:09 pm 
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    Olive is written as a passive aggressive control freak whose need for control, along with her anger, and irrational fears will not let her turn. She is not going to give up control of Haffaton as she will have to start over anew and her faux humility won't stand for that. If she turns she will have to start over in positioning herself in control but will have both Jillian and Wanda to deal with and both are already aware of her tricks.

    Also, Maya Calendar decreed that a Warlady who will be very important to Wanda will croak the Ruler of Haffaton. If Olive turns, then Haffaton falls and there is no more Ruler of Haffaton rending the prediction unfulfilled. Fate will most likely not allow this event.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:48 pm 
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    Silverhorn wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    Also, consider this. Even if Olive could, and did turn, that wouldn't be the end of Jillian's fate. The capitol city that they just captured is also called Haffaton. Loj Banhammer is the new Ruler. That is a way Fate could course correct. We know it won't, because Jillian is far away when Faq falls, but that is a loophole that fate could exploit.


    Actually the Capital Site they captured is El-Efbaum. The side of Haffaton still has its capitol of Haffaton. Loj in no way imaginable is the Ruler of Haffaton.

    Also this could create an opening for Fate to pull a switch up. Olive converts. A barbarian warlord captures it and lacking imagination calls his new side Haffaton. Or another side captures Haffaton and spins off another side that is unimaginatively called Haffaton.

    Finally even if Faq sacks and abondons the capitol of Haffaton, the site may carry the name as of "Ruins of Haffaton" until it is renamed. So the barbarian or other side option could be valid for many, many years.

    That works even better for my theory.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:23 am 
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    I don't think we've seen any evidence of Predictamancers playing word games. I suspect that they know what their Predictions really mean and aren't just magically fed words to say like a parrot. I expect that if the Prediction didn't apply to the real Haffaton side as everyone understood it to apply, then the Prediction would have been phrased more like "Jillian will croak the ruler of a side named Haffaton." I will doubt that Predictions are tricky until we see a tricky Prediction.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:45 pm 
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    Silverhorn wrote:
    One thing I am curious about. Has the Magic Kingdom be refferenced in Book Zero yet?

    Yes, quite a lot to to be honest. Delphie and Olive met there, Wanda met Jack and Marie when she bought a new outfit, most of the casters of Faq fled there when Haffaton conquered them, and many more times

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     Post Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:46 am 
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    If Olive tries to turn she will be hit by a burning beam.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:52 am 
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    Silverhorn wrote:
    Another consideration is that the Prediction just says that Jillian will kill the Ruler of Faq. I do not think that means that it has to be the "current sitting" Ruler of Faq.


    You are confused. Jillian is fated to croak the ruler of Haffaton. Loj Banhammer is fated to be croaked by an unidentified unit, which is silly because virtually all units are fated to face the same destiny. There was some concern that this would happen to Loj very soon, but as we have seen, this was not the case. Thus that Prediction turned into more-or-less self-fulfilling bunk when Wanda decided she had better be the one to fulfill it.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:34 am 
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    Vreejack wrote:
    Silverhorn wrote:
    Another consideration is that the Prediction just says that Jillian will kill the Ruler of Faq. I do not think that means that it has to be the "current sitting" Ruler of Faq.


    You are confused. Jillian is fated to croak the ruler of Haffaton. Loj Banhammer is fated to be croaked by an unidentified unit, which is silly because virtually all units are fated to face the same destiny. There was some concern that this would happen to Loj very soon, but as we have seen, this was not the case. Thus that Prediction turned into more-or-less self-fulfilling bunk when Wanda decided she had better be the one to fulfill it.
    Might mean Wanda instead.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:38 pm 
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    babypolis wrote:
    OH GOD! Why the hell are they holding the trial in a GODDAMN GARDEN?

    Is everyone forgetting why she is so deadly? I dont think she is going to give up so easily

    I hope this wont end badly for the court of Faq.
    She's a prisoner. There must be some restrictions on a caster-prisoner casting, otherwise it would be almost impossible to imprison casters.

    And, in any case, Jillian is just a footstep away and can kill her in one blow. She's also surrounded by casters loyal to Faq, most of whom likely likewise have ways to incapacitate her very quickly.

    MonteCristo wrote:
    I wouldn't say that... i think Olive might get out by pleading for the lives of haffaton's units. If she turns then the units in the field would disband. The only counter to this would be if its possible for a ruler to give units and cities to another side instantly; in which case wanda could call on Olive to force her units to turn to Faq AND give Faq all of her cities, before turning herself, as proof of her "loyalty"
    My impression is that Haffaton doesn't have many living field units, since they depend on static defenses, uncroaked, and traps to avoid the scaling problems that come with such a large side.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:17 pm 
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    Aquillion wrote:
    MonteCristo wrote:
    I wouldn't say that... i think Olive might get out by pleading for the lives of haffaton's units. If she turns then the units in the field would disband. The only counter to this would be if its possible for a ruler to give units and cities to another side instantly; in which case wanda could call on Olive to force her units to turn to Faq AND give Faq all of her cities, before turning herself, as proof of her "loyalty"
    My impression is that Haffaton doesn't have many living field units, since they depend on static defenses, uncroaked, and traps to avoid the scaling problems that come with such a large side.

    I would say they have enough. Jillian saw their patrols near the border, plus the field units gave her plenty of trouble when she was trying to escape. Really Considering how much the court of Faq seems to abhor croaking units, i don't think Olive needs a whole lot of units in particular to make such a defense work.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:18 pm 
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    I'm not a fan of the style of the faces specifically in N is for Night. Just my 2 cents!

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     Post Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:34 pm 
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    MonteCristo wrote:
    Really Considering how much the court of Faq seems to abhor croaking units, i don't think Olive needs a whole lot of units in particular to make such a defense work.
    Ending Haffaton wouldn't be croaking anyone; the only risk to field units would be disbanding. We know that the court of Faq highly dislikes violence, but disbanding is very much not violent. Banhammer has threatened to disband Jillian and disbanding seems to be part of the normal operation of a side; it might even be impossible to run a side without disbanding units. It would be interesting to know what the court thinks of disbanding specifically.

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