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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:47 am 
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jah77 wrote:
Stanlety said "a caster" and not "Jack" or "the foolamancer."


Yeah, but we just saw both Maggie and Wanda... By process of elimination it has to be Jack, unless Stanley hired some extra caster without telling anyone, and managed to get them to Spacerock.

Edited: for proper quoting.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:48 am 
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    Oh, and we saw Sizemore as well. I somehow always forget him even though he is wildly important.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:50 am 
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    CarniDollMancer wrote:
    jah77 wrote:
    Stanlety said "a caster" and not "Jack" or "the foolamancer."


    Yeah, but we just saw both Maggie and Wanda... By process of elimination it has to be Jack, unless Stanley hired some extra caster without telling anyone, and managed to get them to Spacerock.

    Edited: for proper quoting.

    Yeah, this is true. I can't think of what else Stanley could have meant.

    But right now, I just think that Jack is the only possible explanation for the bracer weirdness. It's much more likely that we're being tricked somehow about Jack's death, than that fate is acting to change the bracer.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:54 am 
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    Unless he somehow Fooled Stanley's Ruler sense, or cast Foolamancy so powerful that it lasted through his death, I do not see how Jack could be alive. Admittedly, maybe he can do those things (being Master-class and all), but it seems unlikely.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:03 am 
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    jah77 wrote:
    But right now, I just think that Jack is the only possible explanation for the bracer weirdness. It's much more likely that we're being tricked somehow about Jack's death, than that fate is acting to change the bracer.


    ... YES, BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE AN IDEA I'M GOING TO PRETEND IT DOESN'T EXIST DESPITE ALL EVIDENCE OTHERWISE. MY THEORY WAS JUST DEBUNKED BUT I WON'T LET THAT STOP ME.

    MAYBE IF I WISH HARD ENOUGH THE PLOT FAIRIES WILL MAKE JACK ALIVE AND THIS WILL ALL BE A BAD DREAM, FATE EXISTING AS AN ACTIVE FORCE AND STANLEY BEING ABLE TO TELL WHEN HIS OWN CASTER BIT IT. FIE, I SAY. YOUR FEEBLE LOGIC HOLDS NO SWAY OVER ME.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:08 am 
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    Global Warming doesn't exist.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:11 am 
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    And that is why it's good to have friends who can see the future.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:15 am 
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    joosy wrote:
    I find it odd that a predictamancer can get punched against their will but if any other caster could do it, it would be a carnymancer.
    The squirrel, man. Look at the squirrel's reaction in that panel and the next.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:17 am 
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    Kaed wrote:
    jah77 wrote:
    But right now, I just think that Jack is the only possible explanation for the bracer weirdness. It's much more likely that we're being tricked somehow about Jack's death, than that fate is acting to change the bracer.


    ... YES, BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE AN IDEA I'M GOING TO PRETEND IT DOESN'T EXIST DESPITE ALL EVIDENCE OTHERWISE. MY THEORY WAS JUST DEBUNKED BUT I WON'T LET THAT STOP ME.

    MAYBE IF I WISH HARD ENOUGH THE PLOT FAIRIES WILL MAKE JACK ALIVE AND THIS WILL ALL BE A BAD DREAM, FATE EXISTING AS AN ACTIVE FORCE AND STANLEY BEING ABLE TO TELL WHEN HIS OWN CASTER BIT IT. FIE, I SAY. YOUR FEEBLE LOGIC HOLDS NO SWAY OVER ME.


    Well no, it's not because I don't like the idea, it's because of how the bracer changed numbers. As I said, the bracer first showed one number and then showed another number. This implies that the bracer works, without considering "fate," and then fate somehow "sees" this, decides that fate does not like this, and changes this. But wouldn't something as powerful as fate be able to simply influence the bracer's results from the get-go? Why would fate have to wait until Parson is about to perceive the numbers on the bracers, and then make a decision to change those numbers? That kind of activity is much more suggestive of an actual person, Jack or otherwise, than something as powerful as fate.

    Further, none of the descriptions of fate we've seen already provides support for the kind of bracer activity we saw. Fate is described essentially as the outcome of all possible paths that a unit can take. Fate is never described as a force in itself that actually influences that outcome.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:18 am 
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    jah77 wrote:
    But right now, I just think that Jack is the only possible explanation for the bracer weirdness. It's much more likely that we're being tricked somehow about Jack's death, than that fate is acting to change the bracer.


    I believe it is heavily implied that the bracer weirdness is due to the dichotomy of Parson asking if it is possible to do something which Erfworld Fate has decreed impossible. Its the same as a DM railroading a team of adventurers into a sidequest - no matter what they do or roll, he is not going to allow it. The bracer is essentially saying "yes, you can cast this spell; the odd of that are <insert number>, However, Fate will not allow it to take place, ergo the number is zero."

    It is part of the underlying issues of Erfworld regarding self-determination that Parson has noted on from the beginning. Are rulers/overlords the only creatures with free will? And even so, aren't even they also slaves to Fate's decrees? Perhaps Parson will eventually break that as well.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:20 am 
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    Aquillion wrote:
    joosy wrote:
    I find it odd that a predictamancer can get punched against their will but if any other caster could do it, it would be a carnymancer.
    The squirrel, man. Look at the squirrel's reaction in that panel and the next.


    hmm.. perhaps the groundhog is the real predictamancer? Interesting..

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:21 am 
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    Humm, let's not exaggerate, we can counterargument without being dicks. It wouldn't surprise me that a master foolamancer might be able to slip from his ruler's perception. But why would he do it? It would be a waste of juice.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:25 am 
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    teratorn wrote:
    Humm, let's not exaggerate, we can counterargument without being dicks. It wouldn't surprise me that a master foolamancer might be able to slip from his ruler's perception. But why would he do it? It would be a waste of juice.


    If Jack knows that Charlie can hack everybody's communication, then maybe Jack is trying to fool Charlie.

    Another question: what caused Parson to level?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:34 am 
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    jah77 wrote:
    Another question: what caused Parson to level?


    He just conquered a city.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:36 am 
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    jah77 wrote:
    Another question: what caused Parson to level?


    My guess is that it has something to do with him conquering the city in person.

    Edited: I guess I'm too slow.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:42 am 
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    CarniDollMancer wrote:
    jah77 wrote:
    Another question: what caused Parson to level?


    My guess is that it has something to do with him conquering the city in person.

    Edited: I guess I'm too slow.

    But didn't the bracer message happen way after Staley's picture went up?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:45 am 
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    jah77 wrote:
    CarniDollMancer wrote:
    jah77 wrote:
    Another question: what caused Parson to level?


    My guess is that it has something to do with him conquering the city in person.

    Edited: I guess I'm too slow.

    But didn't the bracer message happen way after Staley's picture went up?



    The message came later, but Parson is not intrinsically aware of his level, so he may not have noticed it until he consulted the bracer.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:47 am 
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    jah77 wrote:
    But didn't the bracer message happen way after Staley's picture went up?


    I took it as a result of Parson deciding to make a calculation. He had already leveled.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:48 am 
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    Parson not only was there to conquer a city, but croaked a king (and unlocked an achievement) in the process. Not surprised he leveled after that.

    About the Antium/Jack ideas the only thing I could think of at the time to explain Jack's "tricks" to "get back into Spacerock" was to think that he never left. He just got his head into the MK, casted the foolamancy from there (his head rolling) and got all of himself back in Spacerock. What I couldn't sort out in that idea is how Antium would get in when Jack said he was a useful man to stack with. Maybe what happened was that Jack stacked with Antium and that allowed him to go cast in the MK without completely leaving Spacerock, but I feel like I'm stretching it too much there.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:50 am 
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    teratorn wrote:
    jah77 wrote:
    But didn't the bracer message happen way after Staley's picture went up?


    I took it as a result of Parson deciding to make a calculation. He had already leveled.


    Actually, Parson was not paying attention to the bracer when he found out that he leveled. In fact, the bracer's informing Parson that he leveled interrupted Parson's thought process:

    "
    Maybe there was even a way back to Erfworld if he did...

    The bracer hummed, and inside the little glass window he saw his own name in blue light:

    [Parson Gotti, Warlord (Chief) (Level 3)]
    "

    EDIT: I suppose it's possible that leveling does not have to happen at exactly the same time as when you perform the act that causes you to level.

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