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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Hey Guys,

New poster here, though i have lurked for quite a while.

I just wanted to step in and say I'm not seeing the issue here.

Despite the inferno status it seems from the images that fires behaves the same way as it does in our reality, it can only consume and spread to stuff in a step wise fashion.

That means all parson and his troops need to do is mount his dwagons and fly up into the airspace above the city (remember you can change zones off turn in your own cities, they did it a lot in book 1), sure the city will burn to the ground, but the fire cant burn air and spread up to him and his troops so it doesn't matter. From there they can just wait out the ending of the turn or night time, whichever comes first, and leave when their turn happens. I guess they could die from smoke inhalation but that's just a matter of staying upwind (shrug).

unless of course fire doesn't behave the same way as it does in reality and will magically "jump" to the troops in the air. Don't know.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:13 pm 
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    Guppy wrote:
    Jamus wrote:
    And that's probably the biggest hand-tip of all. If Charlie truly had Parson in a bind, and truly didn't care about how Parson left the scene, just that he did.. he wouldn't be bothering with this call. "Get off the line!" - "Not gonna happen." He tells him to "try it" two separate times. He spends a calculation. If Parson was really fubar, Charlie wouldn't bother. If anything, he'd be trying to call in all the calculations he had in the few moments before Parson disappears.

    I agree with this analysis, but with different reasons being the driver behind Charlie's actions.

    We've just had a series of comics that explores the dynamics of captured units and side-switching; I think that's a pretty good meta-hint as to what Charlie hopes to accomplish (and possibly, what game mechanics Parson will use to escape from his zero-move predicament). As for Parson, he needs to be defect to a side that still has move remaining on a turn scheduled to begin right away. And possibly also a side that is willing to relocate their capitol city for one turn, although I have no idea what Parson could possibly trade to make a side perform such a maneuver for him.

    Mathmancy calculations. A lot of them.

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    Also, it depends rather heavily on Wanda ... not being Wanda.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:16 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    Well, there must be some option left other than the scroll. I mean, Fate doesn't want him to die, and using the scroll would be cheating Fate. But since the scroll is even an option, maybe this incident is meant to force him to figure out his ability as a caster.

    Those Units they were just talking about? They aren't loyal to Stanley, they're loyal to Wanda. So yeah, persuade her to turn and the Portal opens.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:20 pm 
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    Hmm. Parson with no move. Scroll with some vague connection to 'home'. Missing artifact that grants unlimited move.

    Probably not, but it's an interesting dotted line... presuming Charlie has a plan to swoop in and retrieve them from army-less Parson before he figures them out.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:21 pm 
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    Oreo2483 wrote:
    ...all parson and his troops need to do is mount his dwagons and fly up into the airspace above the city...


    That might work for the infantry, but Parson is a Heavy unit, and can't use flying mounts.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:24 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    Well, there must be some option left other than the scroll. I mean, Fate doesn't want him to die, and using the scroll would be cheating Fate. But since the scroll is even an option, maybe this incident is meant to force him to figure out his ability as a caster.

    Those Units they were just talking about? They aren't loyal to Stanley, they're loyal to Wanda. So yeah, persuade her to turn and the Portal opens.

    What does that have to do with the quote?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:26 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    Well, there must be some option left other than the scroll. I mean, Fate doesn't want him to die, and using the scroll would be cheating Fate. But since the scroll is even an option, maybe this incident is meant to force him to figure out his ability as a caster.

    Those Units they were just talking about? They aren't loyal to Stanley, they're loyal to Wanda. So yeah, persuade her to turn and the Portal opens.

    What does that have to do with the quote?

    ... FIrst sentence.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:29 pm 
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    IDK about theories but am I the only one who REALLY wants to see Lord Parson start his own side and conquer erf? In this way he will break the mechanics of the game and erfworld will no longer want him and send him home eventually. Yes it seems he will finally be a real caster too but I so seriously want him on his own side to go kill Stanley. I've hated him from day 1.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:31 pm 
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    Look parson has to use the scroll, he just HAS to. It's been sitting there dazzling us with its mystery for too long, and this is the perfect moment of drama to finally bust it put. It would be infuriating if parson found some other way to escape and then was like "well I'll just hit rid of this mystery scroll it's much too dangerous". It's a classic chelov's gun.

    Also, things were going much too well . You can't let the perfect warlord be on the same side with two attuned arkentools plus ansom and sizemore- it's no fun just watching him mow down everyone. He needs to leave GK SOMEhow, and if he's not going to start how own side then the scroll taking him to Charlie is the way to do it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:35 pm 
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    woort wrote:
    Look parson has to use the scroll, he just HAS to. It's been sitting there dazzling us with its mystery for too long, and this is the perfect moment of drama to finally bust it put. It would be infuriating if parson found some other way to escape and then was like "well I'll just hit rid of this mystery scroll it's much too dangerous". It's a classic chelov's gun.

    Also, things were going much too well . You can't let the perfect warlord be on the same side with two attuned arkentools plus ansom and sizemore- it's no fun just watching him mow down everyone. He needs to leave GK SOMEhow, and if he's not going to start how own side then the scroll taking him to Charlie is the way to do it.

    Thing is, if he casts the scroll, Charlie wins. Who wants that to happen?

    I honestly don't know how anyone can say that given how badly things have gone for Gobwin Knob so far this Book.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:37 pm 
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    woort wrote:
    Look parson has to use the scroll, he just HAS to. It's been sitting there dazzling us with its mystery for too long, and this is the perfect moment of drama to finally bust it put. It would be infuriating if parson found some other way to escape and then was like "well I'll just hit rid of this mystery scroll it's much too dangerous". It's a classic chelov's gun.

    Also, things were going much too well . You can't let the perfect warlord be on the same side with two attuned arkentools plus ansom and sizemore- it's no fun just watching him mow down everyone. He needs to leave GK SOMEhow, and if he's not going to start how own side then the scroll taking him to Charlie is the way to do it.

    There are more possible narrative roles for it than that. The scroll is kind of like Wanda's Easy Way. Also, it's Carnymancy, using it would be cheating. In some senses, he's supposed to cheat, but Fate already has a plan for him. That scroll would probably unravel it.

    As to things going to well, that was before Charlie started active sabatoge. Things certainly aren't going well now.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:42 pm 
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    Option: Parson could try concentrating to reach the GMTTA.

    Or, someone in the MK could show initiative.


    Last edited by Chit Rule Railroad on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:44 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    woort wrote:
    Look parson has to use the scroll, he just HAS to. It's been sitting there dazzling us with its mystery for too long, and this is the perfect moment of drama to finally bust it put. It would be infuriating if parson found some other way to escape and then was like "well I'll just hit rid of this mystery scroll it's much too dangerous". It's a classic chelov's gun.

    Also, things were going much too well . You can't let the perfect warlord be on the same side with two attuned arkentools plus ansom and sizemore- it's no fun just watching him mow down everyone. He needs to leave GK SOMEhow, and if he's not going to start how own side then the scroll taking him to Charlie is the way to do it.

    There are more possible narrative roles for it than that. The scroll is kind of like Wanda's Easy Way. Also, it's Carnymancy, using it would be cheating. In some senses, he's supposed to cheat, but Fate already has a plan for him. That scroll would probably unravel it.

    As to things going to well, that was before Charlie started active sabatoge. Things certainly aren't going well now.

    No. Not the easy way. The very easy way.

    Couldn't be going much worse really.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:50 pm 
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    Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
    Option: Parson could try concentrating to reach the GMTTA.

    Or, someone in the MK could show initiative.

    The magic kingdom is full of predictomancers and thinkomancers that are favourable to Parson.

    So even if Charlie blocked communications, Wanda could (be advised by predictomacer) to turn as suggested in this thread, then Parson might see all her decrypted units turn and then logically turn himself automatically to save himself/open portal for sizemore.

    The difference is it is not Parson's idea then, but they know he is smart enough to follow their lead and make best use of what comes next.


    Last edited by multilis on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:52 pm 
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    Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
    Option: Parson could try concentrating to reach the GMTTA.
    This... might actually be an option. GMTTA might have the resources to either poit him out or get a dirtamancer to him in time. Or at least help him discuss options.

    Quote:
    Or, someone in the MK could show initiative.
    Now that's never gonna happen. One of the reasons Parson is the 'perfect warlord' is because he's one of the few beings in Erfworld which CAN show initiative. Charlie being one of the other few.

    Honestly... knowing that Charlie IS a Carnymancer makes me even more scared of that scroll. Because he likely made it himself. The way he keeps hammering it in that it is Parson's only option only drives home that there HAS to be another option, otherwise Charlie wouldn't be trying to distract him. He'd be simply laying back and watching the show. If he truly had no stake in the matter, he wouldn't be taunting him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:56 pm 
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    multilis wrote:
    Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
    Option: Parson could try concentrating to reach the GMTTA.

    Or, someone in the MK could show initiative.

    The magic kingdom is full of predictomancers and thinkomancers that are favourable to Parson.

    So even if Charlie blocked communications, Wanda could turn as suggested in this thread, then Parson might see all her decrypted units turn and then logically turn himself automatically to save himself/open portal for sizemore.

    Decrypted soldiers becoming barbarians still doesn't take care of the remaining living red dwagons. He could try giving the living red dwagons long distance orders to turn, but that still leaves Transvylto's bat. He could try disbanding the bat as a prisoner I suppose, except he isn't even aware it exists. As interesting as it would be to see Parson start a new side, it looks like the entire purpose of this page was to toss away the most common theories, tempt Parson with the easy solution, and possibly hint at Parson's special.


    Last edited by ManaCaster on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:57 pm 
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    shneekeythelost wrote:
    [Now that's never gonna happen. One of the reasons Parson is the 'perfect warlord' is because he's one of the few beings in Erfworld which CAN show initiative

    They already have been showing imitative, all the predictomancers just showing up at the portal and helping things along. They originally created the scroll. The great minds handicapped Parson with their initiative, trapping him in magic kingdom for long drama. It would most likely be the predictomancers who would preplan to have Parson forced to form own side as part of their long term plot, and then force Wanda to follow it just like Janice.

    Even Jack and Jill have been showing initiative in prequel, and Jill at least is not famous for her brains.

    All they need to do is capture the Garrison, it already flipped to GK, so the bat doesn't stop them, only Red dragons that have not already been decrypted, if there are any. (They may have already died and been decrypted during the main battle) If the bat stops a capital from being moved, then bat may already be dead or easily killed, very few hitpoints and fire may take a steady random toll.

    ...

    One other option to help is Parson or Wanda managing to formerly ally with His Toolship, which may get rid of the conflicting sides problem. This may also shift the turn order, giving a turn before Charlie gets one, just as attempted by Ansom's allies in Book 1. (Rules very unclear on turn order, could speed up or slow down the next turn for Parson with alliance based on evidence so far and logic of other games)


    Last edited by multilis on Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:08 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:00 pm 
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    woort wrote:
    Look parson has to use the scroll, he just HAS to. It's been sitting there dazzling us with its mystery for too long, and this is the perfect moment of drama to finally bust it put. It would be infuriating if parson found some other way to escape and then was like "well I'll just hit rid of this mystery scroll it's much too dangerous". It's a classic chelov's gun.

    Also, things were going much too well . You can't let the perfect warlord be on the same side with two attuned arkentools plus ansom and sizemore- it's no fun just watching him mow down everyone. He needs to leave GK SOMEhow, and if he's not going to start how own side then the scroll taking him to Charlie is the way to do it.


    The scroll is not an example of Chekov's Gun, for this scenario. It's instead the rock to the inferno's hard place. Parson's thinking will be how to remedy the situation without taking either of those choices. I will admit that I do believe we'll see that scroll fire, but only much later on.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:07 pm 
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    So..

    He cannot split off and claim the city as a capitol as long as there are other units, allied or otherwise, in the city.
    - could he claim them as prisoner perhaps? Doing that with the dwagons would be problematic at best.

    He cannot use the dwagons to fly into the airspace. The assumption is that the inferno burns everything in the hex, including the airspace - much like the volcano did to the archons. Parson is also a heavy and cannot fly. Perhaps riding on a red would protect the rest of the units??

    He cannot hide inside a red dwagon corpse unless there are some red dwagons that are not decrypted. I don't recall seeing any. Cutting open/killing/re-harvesting a decrypted dwagon would just dust it, I believe.

    In my opinion it comes down to that scroll or unlocking some other power. My vote is that Parson realizes he can cast spells and either is able to cast a dirtamancy spell of his own or summons Sizemore to him (if that's possible).

    Charlie also seems to know more about Parson's abilities than Parson does - otherwise why would he be so keen on having him try the scroll? Perhaps there will be some backstory on how Charlie was able to learn about the summoning scroll.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:08 pm 
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    It still seems to me like there should be some way to exploit the red dwagons' fire immunity to survive the inferno. It could just be as simple as finding a relatively clear or already burnt-out part of the city, and having the dwagons encircle the survivors to protect them from the flames.

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