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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:01 pm 
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wrecan wrote:
...Is Banhammer actually stating that there are things that are consistent with Duty that you should refrain from doing? (I guess he is saying that.) If so, how is Olive supposed to know what that is? She hadn't even read Banhammer's books on morality until after she conquered FAQ, which was well after she had committed most of the crimes on Wanda's list.

Seems to me, Olive's defense is...
1. I never violated by Duty to my Side
2. Not doing everything I could for my Side would have violated my Duty
3. The Titans made Hipppiemancy so it could be used in the way I used it, so it can't be a perversion.
4. The aspects of the Olive Garden to which Wanda objects were conceived of under the thinkamancer Maxwell's guidance. If anybody was a pervert, it would have been Maxwell. (And we have ample evidence this is true.) If you deem Olive perverted, it was not her fault, as she was perverted by Maxwell. She should therefore be rehabilitated. And who better to rehabilitate Olive than a community of casters? Surely, some combination of Betsy's healomancy and Labeler's signamancy can repair the damage that Maxwell has wrought? (And then FAQ will have the benefit of a hippiemancer amongst its ranks!)


It really comes down to FAQs conceptualization of Peace. I'm hoping it doesn't go down the "Someone is responsible for this and has to pay, but not you, you were just following orders." route. She incapacitated her side's Overlady to further her own causes and continued doing brutal and violent things.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:05 pm 
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    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    ...........
    Also - up till now we've never seen a non-royal side big enough to really do much spinning off. For the first time ever we have evidence of strong, well ruled, large, old non-royal sides. Possible Doothis was a warlord of one across the seas. If they have the resources to be sending their warlords off into the unknown...


    ** error on this line ** Yes, Haffaton was part of a "Tribe" which Haffaton wiped out.
    **fixed here ** Yes, Badminton was part of a "Tribe" which Haffaton wiped out.

    http://www.erfworld.com/2011/12/inner-p ... isode-017/

    Inner peace episode 17 wrote:
    "We don't have to be enemies, Tommy," Olive said, her eyes softening as she stepped closer to him. "With Wanda on our side, we'd be more like family. Like a tribe."

    "We had a tribe," said Tommy stiffly. "You helped wipe them out."


    Last edited by Morni on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:08 pm 
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    Noigel wrote:
    balder wrote:
    But there is a worse crime, one she can never truly answer for. She created the Olive Garden.”


    Wow, that snuck up on me... belly laughed. Great prose and a hard hitting punchline.

    wrecan wrote:
    Using the Arkenshoes, Judy seems to have the ability to travel into any hex, which would have made her a superb strike force. If the Arkenshoes also allow her to bring some people along with her, she could have snuck into EfBaum with Tina the Turnamancer, grabbed Olive, turned her, and then used her to try to kill Charlie.


    This conceptualization of Judy as a master infiltrator scares the hell out of me. If I understand it right, she could have pulled off some zero-dark-thirty-type master assassin maneuvers. Think about it... she has move on every turn. She essentially always has move. The more sides that are in an engagement, the more ability she has to hit hard and then distance herself from retaliation. And if she's disguised and moving on your turn... you probably have no idea.

    She's not all powerful, and she's got to strike where unexpected, but that's pretty powerful. I could see why it would take something like the flowers to finally drag her down.

    That's actually insanely powerful. A king can get a natural thinkamancy warning that his outer post just got razed. That's three turns away by gwiffon back. BAM Judy is in your face this turn, and continues moving all the way through your entire territory.

    Attune those to a powerful warlord, and you can do a remote strike on most of the world. In one turn you can scout out at least 100 hexes to find the small, under-defended cities. That same turn you can start picking them off, razing them for smuckers, and stack your Side's treasury. Jillian has been noted as being able to dispense a small army with a pair of chopsticks. Imagine the destruction she could do with full gear, three-edge, some scrolls, some healing potions, one of those cloaking cloaks from Charlescomm, and something that just sets her off at the start of turn. Hit and run tactics to wear down larger forces, outrun any groups that give chase until they run out of move, then return to pick them off in smaller groups. She could severely challenge Charlescomm on the merc market.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:10 pm 
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    teratorn wrote:
    People seem to be forgetting a previous episode

    Good point. I did forget that. That leads me to believe that either Charlie was a pretty terrible Ruler for Olive to think it was in the interest of the Side for him to be croaked... or Olive's ambitions can somehow have overcome her Duty.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:19 pm 
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    Morni wrote:
    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    ...........
    Also - up till now we've never seen a non-royal side big enough to really do much spinning off. For the first time ever we have evidence of strong, well ruled, large, old non-royal sides. Possible Doothis was a warlord of one across the seas. If they have the resources to be sending their warlords off into the unknown...


    Yes, Haffaton was part of a "Tribe" which Haffaton wiped out.

    http://www.erfworld.com/2011/12/inner-p ... isode-017/

    Inner peace episode 17 wrote:
    "We don't have to be enemies, Tommy," Olive said, her eyes softening as she stepped closer to him. "With Wanda on our side, we'd be more like family. Like a tribe."

    "We had a tribe," said Tommy stiffly. "You helped wipe them out."


    That kind of confuses me now, I probably need to go back and read through straight. I'm not sure it necessarily says Haffaton and Badmitten were spun of from an another non-royal side at one point.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:44 pm 
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    Wait, so Charlie's link ups CAN include three casters and the Arkendish. One of them probably needs to be Charlie though. So the mighty Kingworld probably is something only doable with a four "caster" link. Or more specifically a turn-carny-???-think link. (Probably changeamancy.)

    Edit: Also of note non-royal warlords can spin off a new side. The attempt to trap Parson was pointless.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:58 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    Wait, so Charlie's link ups CAN include three casters and the Arkendish. One of them probably needs to be Charlie though. So the mighty Kingworld probably is something only doable with a four "caster" link. Or more specifically a turn-carny-???-think link. (Probably changeamancy.)

    Edit: Also of note non-royal warlords can spin off a new side. The attempt to trap Parson was pointless.


    Evidence suggests that the Arkendish counts as a caster for the sake of linking. And, as far as we know, the limit is still 3, including the dish.

    Charlie being a Carnymancer didn't come as a surprise to myself and evidently many others. Olive being his daughter DID, though.

    [edit] Might as well add some wild speculation here. When Charlie attuned with the Arkendish, it is like he permanetly linked himself with a master-class Thinkamancer. Oh Titans, the power that would give a caster.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:18 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    Edit: Also of note non-royal warlords can spin off a new side. The attempt to trap Parson was pointless.

    Well, we don't know the mechanism for that. I assume you mean that since Overlord Doothis founded a side, that he must be a spin-off from another side. We don't know how Doothis founded a side. (Heck, since Wanda wasn't there, it's not entirely reliable that Doothis founded Haffaton, rather than inherited it from a Royal who never popped a royal heir, the same way Stanley became Overlord of Gobwin Knob.)

    That said, it does look like on option for Parson could be:
    1. Contact Stanley (via Eyebook)
    2. Convince him to release you to barbarianship.
    3. Found a new side with a capital at Spacerock.
    4. Ally with Gobwin Knob.
    5. Open portal.
    6. Get Sizemore to douse the inferno and Wanda to decrypt the dead.
    7. Contact Charlie via eyebook and moon him.

    Issues:
    1) Convincing Stanley to do anything. (Of course, you could get Stanley so mad that rather than disband you, he abandons you.)

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:21 pm 
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    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    Morni wrote:
    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    ...........
    Also - up till now we've never seen a non-royal side big enough to really do much spinning off. For the first time ever we have evidence of strong, well ruled, large, old non-royal sides. Possible Doothis was a warlord of one across the seas. If they have the resources to be sending their warlords off into the unknown...


    Yes, Haffaton was part of a "Tribe" which Haffaton wiped out.

    http://www.erfworld.com/2011/12/inner-p ... isode-017/

    Inner peace episode 17 wrote:
    "We don't have to be enemies, Tommy," Olive said, her eyes softening as she stepped closer to him. "With Wanda on our side, we'd be more like family. Like a tribe."

    "We had a tribe," said Tommy stiffly. "You helped wipe them out."


    That kind of confuses me now, I probably need to go back and read through straight. I'm not sure it necessarily says Haffaton and Badmitten were spun of from an another non-royal side at one point.

    It doesn't say Haffaton was part of the Croatan tribe (that's Wanda's tribe) at all! It say that since Badminton has Tommy of the Croatan tribe and Haffaton has Wanda of the Croatan tribe, Haffaton and Badminton would be "more like" a tribe. Not that they actually were a tribe.

    Haffaton and Badminton do not have a common origin as far as anybody is aware.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:32 pm 
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    wrecan wrote:
    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    ...

    That kind of confuses me now, I probably need to go back and read through straight. I'm not sure it necessarily says Haffaton and Badmitten were spun of from an another non-royal side at one point.

    It doesn't say Haffaton was part of the Croatan tribe (that's Wanda's tribe) at all! It say that since Badminton has Tommy of the Croatan tribe and Haffaton has Wanda of the Croatan tribe, Haffaton and Badminton would be "more like" a tribe. Not that they actually were a tribe.

    Haffaton and Badminton do not have a common origin as far as anybody is aware.


    My mistake, you are correct Haffaton was not part of the tribe. Badminton was part of a tribe

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:38 pm 
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    wrecan wrote:
    effataigus wrote:
    My question, and I'm a lil out of it, so mebbe I just missed it, is "why did Judy turn on Charlie?" I'm guessing the answer will be Olive and her buds.

    Judy never "turned" on Charlie. Judy was a Warlady of Haffaton. Charlie was the Overlord of el-EfBaum. They were on different sides. Once Easteros and Westeregg were defeated, the two Sides would likely have turned from allies to foes. As Warlady of Haffaton, it would have been Judy Gale's Duty to oppose el-EfBaum.
    Aha, yes I was spaced out. Okay, but what then turned allies to foes? What caused Olive to turn upon her father?

    At least I feel like I'm asking the questions that Rob wants us to be asking now. :P

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    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:00 pm 
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    Maybe it's too obvious to note, or maybe it's just me, but I didn't see it posted where someone pointed out the joke behind the name Lex Doothis, "Alright chums, lets do this, Leeeeroy Jenkins!

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:02 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    Okay, but what then turned allies to foes?

    Competition for resources, most likely. Once el-EfBaum and Haffaton swallowed up the territory that had been Easteros and Westegg, they would have increasingly been tempted to war with each other.

    effataigus wrote:
    What caused Olive to turn upon her father?

    Good question. Judy Gale (Haffaton's Overlady) liked Charlie. So Olive would be doing it on her own. I'm very interested in seeing the next update for this storyline, as I imagine Wanda and Olive will each give their version of Olive's attempt to overthrow Charlie.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:03 pm 
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    Max™ wrote:
    Maybe it's too obvious to note, or maybe it's just me, but I didn't see it posted where someone pointed out the joke behind the name Lex Doothis, "Alright chums, lets do this, Leeeeroy Jenkins!

    Good catch. That's likely a clue as to how Doothis got croaked allowing Judy Gale to take over.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:11 pm 
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    It's been a while since I've felt the need to add anything here...

    Doesn't the Hammer do Carnymancy? Could be the ultimate weapon against Charlie.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:38 pm 
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    One thing I noticed is that Lex Doothon appears to have spun off the side on his own. He had a Thinkamancer with him when he joined up with Charlie, but we know that Casters often spawn not long after a side is founded. So did the side get him after they formed, or was he along for the initial voyage across the sea? If it's the former, then Lex may not have had a way to contact his superiors besides them knowing where he is. This would imply that a new side can form without the permission of the Ruler, if the nearby forces are willing to follow them.

    Personally, I'd like to know a bit more about the place across the sea. We're going to have to deal with them eventually, and if somehow there's a handful of sides that are all aligned with each other, they could just start popping units and sending out probes to try and take over the world. Maybe the side that sent Doothon out was trying to do the same that the king of FAQ was, and preserve his lineage from enemies on the continent.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:49 pm 
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    I'm convinced now that this whole story has been building up to this:

    Quote:
    But there is a worse crime, one she can never truly answer for. She created the Olive Garden.”


    Well played, Rob. Well played! :lol:

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:09 pm 
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    ... wow, I can't remember the last time that 1 posting gave us sooo many answers yet doubled our questions.

    So now we know judy was literally a beta version of Parson. She was summoned by a combination of Predictamancy, and Findamancy (the 2 types wanda was told made the scroll), Thinkamancy (which we've known also played a role in parson's summoning) and Lookamancy (which was supposed to be the caster that casted the scroll but instead wanda casted it).

    We also know that Charlies had an heir / offspring that tried to kill him and how he came to acquire the arkendish, and is a carnymancer(that in and of itself has frightening implications.. no wonder the thinkamancers are scared about a carnymancer running around with seemingly unlimited thinkamancer abilities).

    We also know its entirely possible for a warlord that is non-barbarian to split off and start its own side upon conquering a city. Something that's long been hinted at but never actually directly stated.

    Weaponization of Hippymancy, yes this has long been stated, and we know parsons a hippiemancer but we can now draw some stronger ties between him and dame branch and the kind of trouble he might cause in the future for the world (like false parlays like we've already seen him use for instance).

    We also know that they are currently standing in charlies original capitol. So where did he relocate to and why. (my money is he abandoned the city and his daughter after she tried to kill him at which point Judy took the city). However I'm also wondering about the arkendish itself now.. perhaps charlie moved capitals because the dish literally couldn't be moved? I mean its a satellite dish, its not like you can go walking around with them and it still be useful.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:27 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I KNEW Charlie was a Carny :) Totally should of put some quatarloos on that one, but I've been lazy and neglecting that thread for a while.


    There were people arguing that Charlie is not a carneymancer? I thought that one was completely closed except for the actual, literal confirmation. Did anyone think that the Wizard of Oz was going to be a thinkamancer? The odds would have to have been 100:1

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:39 pm 
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    Mathamancer wrote:
    So, 11,000 turns - a bit over 30 years (assuming 1 turn=1 day)

    Easteros and Westeregg = inversion of Westeros and Easter Egg. Very clever :)

    The Arkendish would be the broom of the Wicked Witch of the West...except not.


    No, she had an actual broom, which Judy acquired. (edit: and is now sitting out in the street if it isn't destroyed)

    It seems Judy didn't have as much trouble establishing her credentials as Parson did. She killed one enemy by dropping a house on her the moment she arrived. Then she attuned to her artifact. Parson didn't have it nearly as easy.

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    Last edited by vreejack on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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