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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:01 am 
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New One is up.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:16 am 
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    Ooo. Carnymancy.

    Also, people from outside Erfworld can pop kids. Interestin'.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:21 am 
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    Olive tried to kill her own father. I bet Lord Banhammer doesn't like the sound of that.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:21 am 
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    So, 11,000 turns - a bit over 30 years (assuming 1 turn=1 day)

    Easteros and Westeregg = inversion of Westeros and Easter Egg. Very clever :)

    The Arkendish would be the broom of the Wicked Witch of the West...except not.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:24 am 
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    Wonder if Wanda will be sworn to secrecy regarding this trial, get her memory wiped, or if she has some other compelling reason for not having told Parson about Charlie's history.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:32 am 
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    Since all new units are "popped", describing some as a daughter only applies to units in the royal family.
    And how is that ordered? What unit types? Are they commanders?

    We are now getting details we don't know if Parson knows.....

    efBaum --- I finally got that one. :oops:

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:39 am 
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    So the things are getting clear. Charlie was summoned the way Parson was (to prevent the destruction of the side that summoned him), but he was unable to actually win against two attuned casters. Yet, he was able to hold his own for years and years (maybe it was the way spell was phrased?) During the time, he found out that he was a special unit, both a warlord and caster (specifically carnymancer), and he honed his skills so he could survive. Enter the new raising force and an opportunity. A new summoning with a different phrasing and there pops Judy. Then, much later, another side is deep in cack and we get Parson the signamancer.

    Anyway, I predicted it all much much sooner, the first time Judy had shown up.

    Edit: see pages 2 and 6 of this thread www.erfworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 3&start=20

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    Last edited by youngstormlord on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:41 am 
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    Well, this explains a lot about Olive's personality.

    Also, Jillian's observation there makes the entire trial a lot more reasonable. Assuming her father is aware of it (and he seems smart enough to be), it seems more like this is an attempt to get a full understanding of what's going on than anything else -- there's no real risk, because the moment Olive tries anything, she's dead and her entire side goes neutral.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:52 am 
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    youngstormlord wrote:
    So the things are getting clear. Charlie was summoned the way Parson was ....



    No, Judy was summoned. But we can now say that Charlie's knows where Parson is from.

    book 0 episode 66 wrote:
    “Their spell was a success. In fact, Bell of Easteros was croaked on the spot as an immediate effect of the summoning process. The warlord they called to their aid was Judy Gale.”

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:55 am 
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    Cevri wrote:
    Also, people from outside Erfworld can pop kids. Interestin'.

    youngstormlord wrote:
    So the things are getting clear. Charlie was summoned the way Parson was..., but he was unable to actually win against two attuned casters.

    I don't think I'm reading the same update as you two. By my interpretation, Charlie's an Erfworld unit, and Judy's the summoned, er, immigrant. Charlie popped Olive, but there's no reason he wouldn't have been able to do so.

    Point to consider: Is Judy also from Stupidworld, or did she get summoned from another fictional universe? I would contend that
    Spoiler: show
    she's not from the same universe as Parson, but rather from one much more similar to the universe in which L.F. Baum's Oz series takes place.
    Discuss.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:01 am 
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    Morni wrote:
    youngstormlord wrote:
    So the things are getting clear. Charlie was summoned the way Parson was ....



    No, Judy was summoned. But we can now say that Charlie's knows where Parson is from.

    book 0 episode 66 wrote:
    “Their spell was a success. In fact, Bell of Easteros was croaked on the spot as an immediate effect of the summoning process. The warlord they called to their aid was Judy Gale.”


    Yup. And you think warlords just sort of survive naturally between two enormous sides with attuned rulers (one of tools being arkendish) for thousands and thousands of turns without not getting crushed? And the guy is carnymancer, succesfuly leading his troops, when the most brilliant warlord we see (besides Charlie and Parson, which is the point) is Ansom, with his inovative use of siege and natural allies. Have you ever seen what happens to casters that lead troops that aren't their constructs? Brilliant warlording, that is. And then, that naturally popped caster/ warlord prodigy just naturally has an idea for trimancer link/fourmancer scroll to summon a perfect warlord of his own? And he understands l33t slang and uses the word kill? Bullroar.

    It wasn't Stanley's idea to summon Parson. It was Wanda's.

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    Last edited by youngstormlord on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:05 am 
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    so Charlie was a carnymancer and used to rule Efbaum. He authorized the first summoning of someone from Stupidworld (that we know of until the author decides to engage in more retconjuration and tie in more outsider visiting strange world tales like Alice in Wonderland or the NeverEnding Story)

    You can croak an Arkentool wielder which means Charlie's solution to 'croak a Tool' is an obtainable goal. It also undermines the basic tenets of 'Toolism' and explains Wanda's (and Charlie's) indifference to this new religion.

    More than one person can become attuned to an Arkentool. It sometimes takes several turns before you become attuned to one. Stupidworlders can be attuned to Arkentools which means that there is hope for Parson yet.

    Charlie is damaged goods. Much like Russia after WWII, he is determined to not leave himself vulnerable like he did before. That would explain his isolation and paranoia/secrecy.

    Olive hiring Charlie to help search for Wanda has an interesting soap opera-ish spin on it now.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:19 am 
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    Yeah, I am beginning to think Charlie is not a Stupid Worlder. His knowledge of StupidWorld terms could come from his affiliation with Judy Gale. Or it could come from an ability to monitor other worlds. I could see a Carnymancer with the knowledge that other dimensions exist setting up a crystal ball through which he can observe this other world.

    Another thing to consider -- Judy Gale may not have come from StupidWorld. There could be other worlds beyond Erf and StupidWorld. Remember: Parson knows of the Wizard of Oz. It seems odd that someone from StupidWorld named Judy Gale would come to a place named EfBaum and the Emerald City and then pretty much reenact Wizard of Oz without knowing about it. So, I'm thinking Judy Gale came from a different dimension than Parson comes from, one in which Wizard of Oz does not exist.

    Perhaps Judy came from a world in which Wizard of Oz doesn't exist but instead they have the amazing tale of a kid named "Gotti" who is sucked into a game and ends war... So Judy would walk around Erf marveling at how all the names of characters match things from that story... like Wanda Firebaugh, and Charlie.

    Also note: not only did Wanda never tell Parson about Charlie's origins, neither did Jack Snipe. I understand Wanda being kind of tight-lipped. She's not much of a talker and likes to keep things close tot he vest. But Jack really liked Parson and wanted him to succeed. At least tell him Charlie is a Carnymancer.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:29 am 
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    Finally, an update plenty of info.

    And now we do know as a matter of fact that a Warlord (or maybe only a Chief Warlord) can split and form a new side after conquering a capital site.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:41 am 
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    Charles Branch?

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:48 am 
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    wrecan wrote:
    Another thing to consider -- Judy Gale may not have come from StupidWorld. There could be other worlds beyond Erf and StupidWorld. Remember: Parson knows of the Wizard of Oz. It seems odd that someone from StupidWorld named Judy Gale would come to a place named EfBaum and the Emerald City and then pretty much reenact Wizard of Oz without knowing about it. So, I'm thinking Judy Gale came from a different dimension than Parson comes from, one in which Wizard of Oz does not exist.

    Perhaps Judy came from a world in which Wizard of Oz doesn't exist but instead they have the amazing tale of a kid named "Gotti" who is sucked into a game and ends war... So Judy would walk around Erf marveling at how all the names of characters match things from that story... like Wanda Firebaugh, and Charlie.

    Also note: not only did Wanda never tell Parson about Charlie's origins, neither did Jack Snipe. I understand Wanda being kind of tight-lipped. She's not much of a talker and likes to keep things close tot he vest. But Jack really liked Parson and wanted him to succeed. At least tell him Charlie is a Carnymancer.


    Perhaps Judy told her story when she returned and that is how it reached our shores (which makes for a whole chicken and egg paradox for world filled with memes from our world).

    And Jack and Wanda did not tell the story about Charlie because the author presumably did not know it at the time and, even if he did, it would have prevented this story from being told effecively.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:58 am 
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    wrecan wrote:
    Yeah, I am beginning to think Charlie is not a Stupid Worlder.


    You don't say! :roll:

    When reading this update I thought: "wow, all these big things, revealed in an indisputable way!" Then I come in here and see youngstormlord and Cevri's posts. Come on!

    What I learned here, and I hope it's obvious to you too. The story of Charlie is very close to the Wizard of Oz. Blair is the Wicked Witch of the West, Bell is of the East (they're named after Blair Witch and Bell Witch). Olive is, as earlier speculated, Glinda the Good Witch of the South, who in line with modern reimaginations of the story isn't good at all. Charlie is the wizard. Unlike the wizard of Oz, who was a charlatan from the real world, Charlie is an Erfworld native - that he could pop a daughter is evidence of that - but him being a carnymancer is a nod to that part of the story. (He is not noble, though. Overlords have daughters too - see Goodminton).

    There had been speculation he was from Stupidworld, but there was also the alternate hypothesis that he just picked up his Stupidworld habits and knowledge from his long-term friend Judy, and that now seems confirmed beyond reasonable doubt. Judy was the warlord summoned (not the summoner!). This is also a deviation from Wizard of Oz, as in Baum's story the wizard certainly didn't summon Dorothy, and Dorothy was certainly no perfect warlord. There's no little dog in this story either.

    We've been told that Royal sides occasionally spin off new sides, suggesting that non-Royal sides don't. But Doothis was an overlord - so either non-Royal sides can spin off after all, or the sides spun off from Royal sides aren't necessarily Royal themselves.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:10 am 
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    joosy wrote:
    And Jack and Wanda did not tell the story about Charlie because the author presumably did not know it at the time and, even if he did, it would have prevented this story from being told effecively.

    Actually, all it would require to "fix" is an off-hand comment from Parson about knowing that Charlie is a Carnymancer. It's not like either Parson or Charlie's actions to date would have differed based on Parson's knowledge of Charlie's origin. In fact, until we learn differently, we can probably assume that Wanda and/or Jack have told Parson about Charlie's origin "off-camera".

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:10 am 
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    Huh.

    HUH.

    Interesting takeaways, for me:

    Confirmation that Charlie is the Wizard (which I think was a common assumption) and is a native Erfworlder, but one who has had prior contact with a non-Erfworlder, is interesting but not horribly new.

    Charlie being a native CARNYMANCER, however, terrifies me all over again and really helps explain a few things. It explains why the Carnymancers seem to generally back him, and makes KingWorld make a LOT more sense.

    IE: Carnymancer is a magical discipline which centers around breaking/rigging the basic rules of the game. If we assume that Charlie's Arkendish lets him function as a Thinkamancer and initiate links (which isn't a hard assumption), then theoretically he could initiate an effective Thinkamancer-Carnymancer-X tri-caster link with just himself and another. (Alternatively, he just hired out a random Thinkamancer not aligned with the Great Minds That Think Alike...)

    If a "simple" linked Croakamancer and Dirtamancer can create a massive natural-disaster event and cause apocalyptic damage over a multi-hex area, wiping out multiple armies simultaneously, and another set of casters can brew up a spell designed to locate someone using very specific criteria and drag them across dimensions, I have no problem believing that a Turnamancer/Carnymancer link could force-end someone's turn. Almost seems rather mild.

    What other shenanigans might we see with tri-caster links? I'm waiting until we get to see a Dirtamancer/Dollamancer combo do a tri-link, animate a whole city, and drop the Erfworld equivalent of the Transformer Metroplex.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:21 am 
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    vintermann wrote:
    wrecan wrote:
    Yeah, I am beginning to think Charlie is not a Stupid Worlder.


    You don't say! :roll:

    When reading this update I thought: "wow, all these big things, revealed in an indisputable way!" Then I come in here and see youngstormlord and Cevri's posts. Come on!

    What I learned here, and I hope it's obvious to you too. The story of Charlie is very close to the Wizard of Oz. Blair is the Wicked Witch of the West, Bell is of the East (they're named after Blair Witch and Bell Witch). Olive is, as earlier speculated, Glinda the Good Witch of the South, who in line with modern reimaginations of the story isn't good at all. Charlie is the wizard. Unlike the wizard of Oz, who was a charlatan from the real world, Charlie is an Erfworld native - that he could pop a daughter is evidence of that - but him being a carnymancer is a nod to that part of the story. (He is not noble, though. Overlords have daughters too - see Goodminton).

    There had been speculation he was from Stupidworld, but there was also the alternate hypothesis that he just picked up his Stupidworld habits and knowledge from his long-term friend Judy, and that now seems confirmed beyond reasonable doubt. Judy was the warlord summoned (not the summoner!).
    This is an odd post Vintermann. First you make fun of someone's idea. Then you present evidence for that theory and make a point of saying how that evidence is wrong here just cuz. This update has resolved the question of where Judy is from, but it never mentions where Charlie is from. You cite as evidence that Charlie couldn't have summoned himself, though I note that that is exactly what happens in the Oz universe, and that it would explain how Charlie knew about looking in other dimensions for warlords to begin with. I think either extreme view is equally untenable at this point!

    That said, I do see some evidence for Charlie being an Erfworlder... which is that his daughter looks like one. There are ways around this, however (Who is the Mom if one exists? How did Olive pop...like humans or just through a city-queue? Do children look like parents in Erfworld? So far, no on the last one.)

    My question, and I'm a lil out of it, so mebbe I just missed it, is "why did Judy turn on Charlie?" I'm guessing the answer will be Olive and her buds.

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