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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:22 am 
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Panel 3, that Dwagon's eyes, is it bleeding. No. No that cannot be right I must be seeing wrong.

And yeah I'm in favor of Parson having the body destroyed in totality. I feel bad for Jack, he's a cool guy, but he doesn't deserve to be so completely warped like Ansom was. Unless they can work out how to "break free" like Ossomer did... Decrypt, break away, second life.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:25 am 
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    sweetidealism wrote:
    That seems like a really boring, anticlimactic way to kill off one of the coolest characters in the comic.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:27 am 
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    Zain wrote:
    Panel 3, that Dwagon's eyes, is it bleeding. No. No that cannot be right I must be seeing wrong.

    And yeah I'm in favor of Parson having the body destroyed in totality. I feel bad for Jack, he's a cool guy, but he doesn't deserve to be so completely warped like Ansom was. Unless they can work out how to "break free" like Ossomer did... Decrypt, break away, second life.


    Holy shit I didn't even notice that. Parson's breaking it already!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:33 am 
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    Anyone else think Slately might be swayed by seeing the 'Evil Parson' abandon a victorious melee to check on a caster? Considering he always had a soft spot for Holly Shortcake and gained a 'new respect' for Ace Hardware it might be a bit 'too human' for what charlie has said of parson, prompting him to question.

    I think Slately will get his gun back and there will be a mexican standoff.

    Otherwise Ace might be able to invent gobwin jumper cables. (Actually that describes the pliers pretty well!, maybe he had the idea when Slately croaked but knew Fakely would never allow something so close to hated decryption, they explicitly killed him to prevent it.)

    Other possibilities include giving Parson a MacGuffin or otherwise easing his path towards diplomacy with Tramenis because he realizes now how Charlie played everyone.

    Then again the whole scene might play out with Ace Hardware as he defies the victorious Parson only to end in Ace turning due to some good impassioned speaking. For all we know this is a ruse explicitly set up between Jack and Marie to cause Parson to display this 'genuine emotional reaction' that will futhil a predictamancy. Notice Marie was pretty adamant Parson's fate was through the portal.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:45 am 
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    ThisIsNotDan wrote:

    ... where do we stand in the battle now? Looks like Clonely dropped his gun. That battlebear looks croaked, as well, leaving Ace either croaked or at least incapacitated. The purple dwagon is still alive, as are at least two reds in the background, and I think I see at least one GK unit alive by the throne. It looks like this'll be an easy win for GK from here, at least.


    What remains of the interior decor is still showing the golden turnip of Jetstone, so there must be at least one Jetstone unit not-yet-croaked in the garrison.

    I think that Jack has one chance now. If the portal is restored,Wanda would still be prevented from coming through by the angry mob, but Parson could carry the body back to the MK. Which would be a bit epic.

    I dunno whether a decrypted Jack would be a good thing, or a very bad thing. In fact, that's the sort of question that deserves a book all to itself

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:46 am 
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    @Tesslyn: Parson has always been "human", as least as much as any other human units. At the same time, he's an enemy unit, and a very dangerous one. That's all he is to Slately at this point, especially when Slately's main objective now is to croak Parson, more than anything else. And I think Parson already had a MacGuffin. It's blue and strapped to his belt.

    ManaCaster wrote:
    I wonder if it would be possible to restore a croaked unit to full life with the right caster link. Maybe Croakamancer/Thinkamancer/(Healamancer or Florist)?


    Maybe, if all three casters were aligned to the Life axis, or if one of them were Jojo and the other was Charlie. Or maybe just Charlie. After the thing with Silvia, I believe restoring a caster to full hitpoint is possible for any four of the Arkentools, provided that their wielder knows how to use it. I do remember Stanley saying at one point that Wanda told him that his hammer has Carnymancy included in, so it's possible for even him, too.

    Anyway, whichever it is, none of it is viable now, since there is no caster in the proximity that's capable of/willing to perform postmortem treatment on Jack's remain. If there were any chance that he'd live, then that would have to come from his own bag of tricks. Which is actually still possible, at this point. Think about it, a unit may not enter a portal connecting to an enemy's side, otherwise it'd be a breach of the Magic Kingdom's neutrality. Parson's status of a warlord aside, there was no way Jack could be allowed into Jetstone's former capital, UNLESS, he's a unit belonging to Jetstone, or a side currently allying themselves to Jetstone, like Charlescomm. Faq is a viable option too, but the queen is unlikely to come back for the third prize, not when she's already gotten her first.

    If Jack had indeed turned to an enemy side of Gobwin Knob, then that might also be his reason for feigning croakage, though I have no idea why he just wouldn't outright betraying Parson in battle. Plus, his death does look authentic even to readers, with the half-blind dwagon unable to judge distance and flying in too far than was ordered, with all the self-comments that he wouldn't have made if he were faking it. Either ways, Jack won't be taking Parson's side any more after this, maybe for good.

    On the other hand, if Jack really is dead, then the only viable option is for Parson to attempt to cast (or somehow forced Ace to cast) that blue scroll onto Jack, in hope that his remain would be sent back to Gobwin Knob for Wanda to decrypt. Otherwise, Jack is well and truly dead, like a dark skinned fighter falling off a headless zombie dwagon.

    peteratjet wrote:
    What remains of the interior decor is still showing the golden turnip of Jetstone, so there must be at least one Jetstone unit not-yet-croaked in the garrison.

    I think that Jack has one chance now. If the portal is restored,Wanda would still be prevented from coming through by the angry mob, but Parson could carry the body back to the MK. Which would be a bit epic.

    I dunno whether a decrypted Jack would be a good thing, or a very bad thing. In fact, that's the sort of question that deserves a book all to itself


    Even if Parson won the city, there still won't BE a portal to connect to Gobwin Knob, because it's not a capital. Also, he'd have to get out of there pronto, otherwise he's croaked in the fire, too.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:03 am 
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    I get the impression that cool characters are killed off like flies habitually (for quite a while already), while others are totally absent from the comic or reduced to side roles.

    I know it serves as a setup for some kind of resolution, but it does feel artificial.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 am 
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    Zain wrote:
    Panel 3, that Dwagon's eyes, is it bleeding. No. No that cannot be right I must be seeing wrong.


    He has red eyes. That could just be smashed eyeball.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:24 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    I wonder if it would be possible to restore a croaked unit to full life with the right caster link. Maybe Croakamancer/Thinkamancer/(Healamancer or Florist)?

    Considering the only Croakamancer we have can do it herself, who needs a link?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:25 am 
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    Xarx wrote:
    Zain wrote:
    Panel 3, that Dwagon's eyes, is it bleeding. No. No that cannot be right I must be seeing wrong.


    He has red eyes. That could just be smashed eyeball.

    I'm more inclined to think that his eyes are painted red, like a plastic toy, and now the paint is melting.
    Tathar wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    I wonder if it would be possible to restore a croaked unit to full life with the right caster link. Maybe Croakamancer/Thinkamancer/(Healamancer or Florist)?

    Considering the only Croakamancer we have can do it herself, who needs a link?

    We still don't know if Jack would still be a caster if he were decrypted, so it's a valid point to wonder whether it's possible to return him to a normal caster unit, one that isn't bound to Wanda, if a caster link was used. And of course that counts the situation where the ones performing it on Jack aren't Gobwin Knob's casters.

    But in actuality, that's not possible, since Jack croaked in a burning enemy territory with no possible aid that could come within the timeframe in which his very remain would expire, which is the end of turn.


    Last edited by M.A.D on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:28 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Zain wrote:
    Panel 3, that Dwagon's eyes, is it bleeding. No. No that cannot be right I must be seeing wrong.

    Worse than seeing Jack die in my opinion. It reminded me of the part of Cave Story where you have to kill dragons just like that, only green. Anyone who knows me knows that I can't handle dead dragons very well.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:29 am 
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    Curse you! No, no, no, that is not how you kill my favorite character. Too anticlimactic.

    I'm going to be depressed now :,(

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:31 am 
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    sweetidealism wrote:
    That seems like a really boring, anticlimactic way to kill off one of the coolest characters in the comic.


    That's the precise reason I thought that Ossomer would survive somewhat longer than he did and do something more dramatic before croaking. I was obviously wrong. War is not inherently dramatic; it is almost always brutish, unfair and ignoble, and for it to be dramatic within the story all the time, would both debase the instances when it is dramatic by making those instances commonplace, and would defeat an overarching theme of the comic itself. If there was apparent purpose to every life lost, or even to most deaths, no one would be trying to end war.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:33 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    M.A.D wrote:
    Tathar wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    I wonder if it would be possible to restore a croaked unit to full life with the right caster link. Maybe Croakamancer/Thinkamancer/(Healamancer or Florist)?

    Considering the only Croakamancer we have can do it herself, who needs a link?

    We still don't know if Jack would still be a caster if he were decrypted, so it's a valid point to wonder whether it's possible to return him to a normal caster unit, one that isn't bound to Wanda, if a caster link was used. And of course that counts the situation where the ones performing it on Jack aren't Gobwin Knob's casters.

    Jack as a non-Caster should still permit him to be a Warlord though. He's been showing interest in battle tactics for some time. I'd say that it wouldn't be so bad for him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:37 am 
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    M.A.D wrote:

    On the other hand, if Jack really is dead, then the only viable option is for Parson to attempt to cast (or somehow forced Ace to cast) that blue scroll onto Jack, in hope that his remain would be sent back to Gobwin Knob for Wanda to decrypt. Otherwise, Jack is well and truly dead, like a dark skinned fighter falling off a headless zombie dwagon.

    peteratjet wrote:
    What remains of the interior decor is still showing the golden turnip of Jetstone, so there must be at least one Jetstone unit not-yet-croaked in the garrison.

    I think that Jack has one chance now. If the portal is restored,Wanda would still be prevented from coming through by the angry mob, but Parson could carry the body back to the MK. Which would be a bit epic.

    I dunno whether a decrypted Jack would be a good thing, or a very bad thing. In fact, that's the sort of question that deserves a book all to itself


    Even if Parson won the city, there still won't BE a portal to connect to Gobwin Knob, because it's not a capital. Also, he'd have to get out of there pronto, otherwise he's croaked in the fire, too.


    If Stanley changed the GK capital to Spacerock, the portal to the MK, where we last saw Wanda, would be restored. It's technically possible, and Maggie might be able to induce Stanley to do it. Especially if the alternative was Parson consumed by the burning city.

    On the other hand, the blue scroll exploit is intriguing. The question is, where would Jack go? I think there's a good chance he would end up back in Faq .

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:38 am 
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    Nooooooooooo!

    Poor Jack. He was cool.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:48 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    peteratjet wrote:
    M.A.D wrote:

    On the other hand, if Jack really is dead, then the only viable option is for Parson to attempt to cast (or somehow forced Ace to cast) that blue scroll onto Jack, in hope that his remain would be sent back to Gobwin Knob for Wanda to decrypt. Otherwise, Jack is well and truly dead, like a dark skinned fighter falling off a headless zombie dwagon.

    peteratjet wrote:
    What remains of the interior decor is still showing the golden turnip of Jetstone, so there must be at least one Jetstone unit not-yet-croaked in the garrison.

    I think that Jack has one chance now. If the portal is restored,Wanda would still be prevented from coming through by the angry mob, but Parson could carry the body back to the MK. Which would be a bit epic.

    I dunno whether a decrypted Jack would be a good thing, or a very bad thing. In fact, that's the sort of question that deserves a book all to itself


    Even if Parson won the city, there still won't BE a portal to connect to Gobwin Knob, because it's not a capital. Also, he'd have to get out of there pronto, otherwise he's croaked in the fire, too.


    If Stanley changed the GK capital to Spacerock, the portal to the MK, where we last saw Wanda, would be restored. It's technically possible, and Maggie might be able to induce Stanley to do it. Especially if the alternative was Parson consumed by the burning city.

    On the other hand, the blue scroll exploit is intriguing. The question is, where would Jack go? I think there's a good chance he would end up back in Faq .

    I think Spacerock as a capital site is key here. There are factors that could make it work without GK having it as their capital (read: Parson as temporary Ruler, Slately to lesser extent) but the important part is that it be made a capital site so Wanda can go through. Beyond that, it doesn't matter whether Jack could still cast or not, because he likes the lateral thinking involved in Parson's style of warlording. Jack could make a good Warlord as long as he doesn't go making stupid mistakes like this one.

    Also, to the people saying Jack might not really be out of Juice, consider that this is the exact same situation as when Jillian got blinded in Book 0. Jack didn't give the Dwagon his eyesight, which suggests he's definitely out of Juice.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:12 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Year of the Dwagon Supporter E is for Erfworld Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    name lips wrote:
    "Jack, what are you doing here?"
    "Well, I've missed our wargames. Haven't you?"
    "No, I mean I wasn't supposed to take any casters with me. And I thought you were out of juice anyway."
    "Indeed, I am. So I can only conclude I must have used a trick of some sort."

    (from here).


    My best guess at the "trick" was that Jack was never actually in the Magic Kingdom to begin with. Maybe he stayed behind at Jetstone and sent an illusion of himself with Wanda.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:14 am 
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    frei wrote:
    sweetidealism wrote:
    That seems like a really boring, anticlimactic way to kill off one of the coolest characters in the comic.


    I think that's the lamest way I've seen a real character die, just bumbling along and accidentally offing themselves. Boo.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:19 am 
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    Speculation: A lot of people have wanted to see Parson spin off his own side. I think I finally see a way to do so. Step 1: Kill off every enemy unit in JS (there's still a confrontation of some kind with Slately, but the battle's nearly won, I think). Step 2: Declare his independence and rulership of JS. Step 3: Go back through the portal and have Wanda come through to Decrypt Jack and tell Maggie to return to GK to tell Stanley to send reinforcements, at which point he will immediately surrender to him and turn back to GK (or possibly keep JS as some sort of client state to GK so that they can have two portals). This seems to me to be the best way to achieve his objectives that are actually achievable at all (Take JS, retake lost cities between GK and JS, possible revival of Jack).

    Or, he will just be so disgusted with the death of Jack that he uses the scroll to return home convinced that the cost of his fixation on wargaming is too high. Which means that at the start of Book 3, he's stuck in Stupidworld and he can't even take joy from gaming, the only thing that mattered to him before.

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