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 Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:54 am 
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I just realized that Parson says "goddamn" in this one. Looks like boop is truly a thing of the past.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:47 am 
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    DunkelMentat wrote:
    I just realized that Parson says "goddamn" in this one. Looks like boop is truly a thing of the past.


    When he says things like that I am reminded of the farscape series, after all do erfworlders even know what a "god" is?

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:35 am 
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    zz_tophat wrote:
    DunkelMentat wrote:
    I just realized that Parson says "goddamn" in this one. Looks like boop is truly a thing of the past.


    When he says things like that I am reminded of the farscape series, after all do erfworlders even know what a "god" is?


    The Erfworlders around Parson are used to having to guess what half of what he says is.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:16 pm 
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    Spot wrote:
    So... I guess that it is pretty-well settled then that Parson is (a) a garrison unit, (b) totally lacking in cross-hex-boundary move, and (c) not going on any trips anytime soon.

    ... (d) Parson is classified as a "heavy" unit". In every sense of the word. :D

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:23 pm 
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    LordDarksea wrote:
    There's a part of me that's wondering if the Archon's filming isn't part of a residual order left behind from Charlie. Could it be possible that decrypting wouldn't override that compulsion, unless Wanda, Stanley, Ansom or Parson actively tells them not to transmit these things?


    Or the Archon might be sending that stuff to Charles. I think it not very likely. But the Archons might still be loyal to Charles, but he ordered then to act loyal to Stanley unless otherwise order by him. Having unknown spies with unfettered access to enemy camps would be more valuable to Charles than the loss of the use of those units.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:08 pm 
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    nerf-dweller wrote:
    Or the Archon might be sending that stuff to Charles. I think it not very likely. But the Archons might still be loyal to Charles, but he ordered then to act loyal to Stanley unless otherwise order by him. Having unknown spies with unfettered access to enemy camps would be more valuable to Charles than the loss of the use of those units.


    That would mean that Charlie knew what Pason was going to do and that Wanda would be able to Decrypt them with the Archenpliers. The chances of that are near zero. And it has been shown that the Decrypted are Wanda's units as she brought them back. If they where still loyal to Charlie they would not have Wanda's liverly. sm

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:02 pm 
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    I believe the Arkenpliers give Wanda a certain supremacy over any decrypted unit. Think of it as re-writing the very bios, OS, and all software to suit your needs... regardless of their origination with CharlesComm.

    Now, here's an even tastier question:

    What's gonna happen the first time Wanda decrypts a dwagon? Which Arkentool will take precedence? Who shall have the last word, influence-wise over the decrypted dwagon?

    Oh, and just to hedge a bit here, we have no way of knowing if Charlie's the only one who has Archons (although, yes, it would be appropriate to the pun if he were) or if they are unique units, exclusive to the Arkendish alone.

    Similarly, we don't know if any other side can pop dwagons, or if the Arkenhammer is required to do so (which I highly suspect). We do know, for certain, that feral dwagons can be tamed with the hammer, per pg. 79. Could a strong enough, charismatic enough warlord/caster actually tame a dwagon without it (as suicidal as that sounds...)?

    Ugh, that got wordy... 'scuse me. If this should be in another thread, could one of you please point me in the right direction? Thanks.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:07 am 
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    Well, we know bats can be tamed without special tools by the right unit. I suspect that wild dwagons can be tames by a specific unit type as well, the Arkenhammer just makes it very very easy. We know that there are units that are similar to Archon from TV, so they may not be unique Arkendish units.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:36 am 
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    Shouldn't the flying archon have a different color scheme? We haven't seen one of these decrypted (only the dance-fighting ones) but I'd expect something with red/white/dark gray .

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:33 pm 
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    Well, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed. I am not sure why writers have to insert derogatory statements into their creations for a cheap laugh. I refer to the following comment:

    "Yeah this prolly has a lot in common with riding a short yellow bus. Okay, hold still!" he commanded.

    As the father of a special needs child, I am quite sensitive to the slander used to make fun of the mentally retarded. The "short bus" is a common one that again pokes fun at those with special needs. It's shameful and upsetting.

    I was an avid reader of your comic and enjoyed it immensely. However, I must point out that I emphasize "was". I will no longer be reading your comic. A helpful tip: if you don't want to alienate your readers, stay away from discriminatory language--your lack of compassion toward those with disability is disheartening.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:09 pm 
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    Troy T wrote:
    Well, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed. I am not sure why writers have to insert derogatory statements into their creations for a cheap laugh. I refer to the following comment:

    "Yeah this prolly has a lot in common with riding a short yellow bus. Okay, hold still!" he commanded.

    As the father of a special needs child, I am quite sensitive to the slander used to make fun of the mentally retarded. The "short bus" is a common one that again pokes fun at those with special needs. It's shameful and upsetting.

    I was an avid reader of your comic and enjoyed it immensely. However, I must point out that I emphasize "was". I will no longer be reading your comic. A helpful tip: if you don't want to alienate your readers, stay away from discriminatory language--your lack of compassion toward those with disability is disheartening.


    As someone who actually used to ride on the little yellow bus (and not as a driver, mind you), I just need to say that you are really reading to much into this.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:14 pm 
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    Troy T wrote:
    Well, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed. I am not sure why writers have to insert derogatory statements into their creations for a cheap laugh.


    Troy I think it was a good thing you called our attention to it, I understand your reaction, but I'd wait before passing judgement on the authors.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:10 pm 
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    teratorn wrote:
    Troy T wrote:
    Well, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed. I am not sure why writers have to insert derogatory statements into their creations for a cheap laugh.


    Troy I think it was a good thing you called our attention to it, I understand your reaction, but I'd wait before passing judgement on the authors.


    I second that.

    I'm not going to say you are wrong to think as you do; it would be condescending and demeaning. And you have my sincerest best wishes for your special needs child; I would certainly come to the rigorous defense of my own daughter if I felt she was maligned.

    However, I don't believe instantly taking a colorful or slightly charged phrase in the most offensive or derogatory way possible is an honest reading of the text. Nor was the phrase used in a cruel or hurtful stand-there-and-laugh-at-the-"retard" manner. (please excuse the slur, it was only used for example.)

    The offending phrase was very self-directed, and only after the word "bus" was used merely to show the creature's size.

    Personally, I can handle non-PC language, I prefer it, actually. I would never ask an artist to censor or limit their work.

    You do have a good point, though; and I trust the author will take your comments seriously.

    (I probably said too much. Y'all can PM me and let me know if you think I'm being a boobhole here... it's been known to happen. :| )

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:46 pm 
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    I'd like to point out that Parson's views and Balder's views are not necessarily the same. Any good (and many bad!) piece of fiction will contain characters with differing viewpoints. Just because Parson is casually derogatory towards those with special needs does NOT mean Balder is; this may even be foreshadowing for a character flaw that will come back to bite him in the butt later.

    I suppose the best thing to do is wait and see how Parson is affected; if his values are rewarded/lauded by the story, you might want to bail if you find those values offensive. If they're punished, then it might be time to stick with it. If they're ignored, then you have to decide how you feel about a story whose main character you despise.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:00 pm 
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    Well, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed. I am not sure why writers have to insert derogatory statements into their creations for a cheap laugh. I refer to the following comment:

    He also thought that "Maybe with a running start" was a terrible set of last words. He should at least have said, "Y'all hold my beer and watch this."

    As the father of a Texas enhanced child, I am quite sensitive to the slander used to make fun of rednecks. The "Y'all hold my beer and watch this" is a common one that again pokes fun at those with urban deficiencies. It's shameful and upsetting.

    I was an avid reader of your comic and enjoyed it immensely. However, I must point out that I emphasize "was". I will no longer be reading your comic. A helpful tip: if you don't want to alienate your readers, stay away from discriminatory language--your lack of compassion toward unwise hicks is disheartening.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:29 pm 
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    Beelzebuddy wrote:
    Well, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed. I am not sure why writers have to insert derogatory statements into their creations for a cheap laugh. I refer to the following comment:

    He also thought that "Maybe with a running start" was a terrible set of last words. He should at least have said, "Y'all hold my beer and watch this."

    As the father of a Texas enhanced child, I am quite sensitive to the slander used to make fun of rednecks. The "Y'all hold my beer and watch this" is a common one that again pokes fun at those with urban deficiencies. It's shameful and upsetting.

    I was an avid reader of your comic and enjoyed it immensely. However, I must point out that I emphasize "was". I will no longer be reading your comic. A helpful tip: if you don't want to alienate your readers, stay away from discriminatory language--your lack of compassion toward unwise hicks is disheartening.


    And as an Arkansasn, I can honestly say i've heard people talk this this often.

    Hell, i've even said that! Course, it was a Dr. Pepper, not a beer, but the point was the same. Took a running jump off my roof to see if i could make it into the pool.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:56 pm 
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    why are you telling erf world fans about this troyt?

    contact rob directly if you have an issue, i don't typically hold the opinion of new users to a forum complaining about something as anything more than trolling or flamebait. if you have an issue with erfworld there is exactly two people that need to know. an internet forum is not the place to raise these concerns

    for all we know you just typed short bus into google because you were bored.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:11 pm 
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    Troy T: These characters are who they are. They are true to themselves, warts and all. If you want to believe that a character like Parson would never make a crack like that, that would be one argument. Do you think that? That a fat twentysomething gamer from Ohio would never make a retard joke?

    You seem to be suggesting that every character in every work of fiction must be written with perfect sensitivity, lest they offend any readers for any reason. You seem to be suggesting that all fiction should pretend that bad things and offensive attitudes don't exist, by never portraying them. If you do think this, then yes, please go enjoy another webcomic. There are thousands. Check the Webcomics List thread for suggestions on your way out.

    An author cannot comment significantly upon reality by misrepresenting it. Erfworld is the best, truest story I can write. Retaining you as a reader is not worth giving up that principle.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:52 pm 
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    balder wrote:
    An author cannot comment significantly upon reality by misrepresenting it. Erfworld is the best, truest story I can write. Retaining you as a reader is not worth giving up that principle.


    Well said, I said pretty much the same in my post, only not nearly as eloquently.

    This DOES raise questions about bigotry on Erf. There's not really any room for religious debate, so that's out, and the gender roles are identical, so no real room there either. On the other hand, we've already seen Ansom demonstrate Royalism. There's bound to be Speciesism, although likely next to no racism, since that's like speciesism but not as much. Why would white fight black when they can gang up on green? [1]

    I think the potential bigotry that excites me most is what's very likely prevalent in the Magic Kingdom - different mancers insisting their mancy is better than yours. This can only be exacerbated by one of the mancies being "Titan only", which means every other discipline has a measurable "distance" from the Titans. By that logic, Predictamancers and Shockmancers would not get along very well at all.

    [1] This is a literary reference; +1000 points to whomever works it out.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 032
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:16 am 
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    balder wrote:
    Troy T: These characters are who they are. They are true to themselves, warts and all. If you want to believe that a character like Parson would never make a crack like that, that would be one argument. Do you think that? That a fat twentysomething gamer from Ohio would never make a retard joke?


    I can imagine someone like Parson, were he real, making a comment as you described. I am not naive to think that those kinds of words are never used. But that was not my point.

    Quote:
    You seem to be suggesting that every character in every work of fiction must be written with perfect sensitivity, lest they offend any readers for any reason. You seem to be suggesting that all fiction should pretend that bad things and offensive attitudes don't exist, by never portraying them.


    I never wrote or thought that every work of fiction must be written with perfect sensitivity, etc. I know what the real world is like and I can separate fiction from reality. The real issue is what words the AUTHOR chooses to use--not the characters. I have read hundreds of novels from many different genres and cannot recall having come across language derogatory toward people with special needs. Why? Because either by choice or coincidence the author chose not to cross that line.

    Quote:
    An author cannot comment significantly upon reality by misrepresenting it. Erfworld is the best, truest story I can write. Retaining you as a reader is not worth giving up that principle.


    As an author you have the awesome responsibility/privilege of influencing your readers. By using language derogatory in your literary works toward a sect of people based on their race, religion, sex, color, creed, or mental capacity you are demonstrating to your readers that this sort of prejudice is acceptable. Would Parson call an African American the "N" word? Would Parson use anti-semitic language toward a Jewish person? Would Parson mock an American Indian with crude imitation of one of their war cries? I doubt it. Instead, you picked a group of people who rarely are able to defend themselves--a group of people who are the butt of every joke that makes fun of a person who lacks intelligence (often times in self-deprecation).

    I fight for awareness. I have made you aware. Your choice to use or not use language that hurts those with special needs lies with you. I bear you and your comic readers no ill. I simply hope that you make the right choice in not perpetuating the derision that is cast on people with special needs by using hurtful words.

    In closing, I offer this link that I hope you will watch with an open heart and open mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRUOL5Rm2XY

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