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 Post subject: Hero Buds
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:03 pm 
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Jack has said that the buds are a kind of self-foolamancy and we know they can affect casters. Would you expect the buds to be stronger or weaker on a foolamancer? I imagine if the you had a heal or think to negate the mind numbing effects, then a fool should be able to overcome the self deception. Similarly, a fool may be able to use his own talents to make someone on the bud see what's actually in front of them instead of the dreams.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:08 pm 
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    That may have been what Jack had in mind when he first spoke with Jillian in her bud vision and he was attempted to guide her out of the bad trip, but then the dream ended and they had to go talk to Marie, and then Banhammer summoned them and he hasn't had a chance to experiment with the altered state again.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:53 pm 
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    If it goes the way it looks like it is, he probably won't get the chance. I suspect the buds will vanish once Olive dies.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:55 pm 
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    TokraZeno wrote:
    If it goes the way it looks like it is, he probably won't get the chance. I suspect the buds will vanish once Olive dies.


    That too, is a good possibility, and perhaps along with that will come some form of a auto-cure for the addiction, at least at the begining of the next turn after Olive croaks? It's all just wild speculamancy right now, but there is a certain logic behind it. Well, no; maybe not. The turning box didn't just go away after Tina croaked/disbanded under Olive. So we don't have any precident for items created through a link-up depopping when their creators croak.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:43 pm 
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    tgriff02 wrote:
    So we don't have any precident for items created through a link-up depopping when their creators croak.


    In fact, we have the opposite - Duncan's headband from the long-fallen side of Napster is probably an example of an item persisting after the croaking of its linked creators.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:43 am 
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    They might NOT be growable without assistance, though. Once they're used up, that's it.

    The addiction would remain, but without any possibility of even momentary satiation, it would eventually fade.

    (edited to insert NOT and fix last sentence)


    Last edited by drachefly on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:46 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    They might be growable without assistance, though. Once they're used up, that's it.

    The addiction would remain, but without any possibility of even momentary satiation, until it fades.


    Given the static ecology and geology of Erfworld (the lava lake in Gk never cools and hardens, ect. ect.) I somehow can perfectly picture the hexes that Oliva has so carefully crafted into the Olive Garden remaining exactly the way she left them for turns, and turns, and YEARS after she croaks, and those feilds of Hero Buds just hanging around waiting for some unsuspecting group wandering through to accidentally figure out how they work... I know that it isn't very likely since there was a special way they had to be picked, but still.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:19 am 
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    drachefly wrote:
    They might NOT be growable without assistance, though. Once they're used up, that's it.

    The addiction would remain, but without any possibility of even momentary satiation, it would eventually fade.

    (edited to insert NOT and fix last sentence)


    At least kicking the habit becomes easier if all the drugs in the world is suddenly destroyed for all future.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:45 am 
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    tgriff02 wrote:
    TokraZeno wrote:
    If it goes the way it looks like it is, he probably won't get the chance. I suspect the buds will vanish once Olive dies.


    So we don't have any precident for items created through a link-up depopping when their creators croak.


    But there is evidence of life magic (which this is), losing its effectiveness when the main caster from a linkup croaks. The dollamancer in this story had that kind of connection.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:20 pm 
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    TokraZeno wrote:
    tgriff02 wrote:
    TokraZeno wrote:
    If it goes the way it looks like it is, he probably won't get the chance. I suspect the buds will vanish once Olive dies.


    So we don't have any precident for items created through a link-up depopping when their creators croak.


    But there is evidence of life magic (which this is), losing its effectiveness when the main caster from a linkup croaks. The dollamancer in this story had that kind of connection.


    That is true. Honestly I think it could go either way. The flowers themselves could remain, but lose their Hero properties, or just continue to grow in those hexes they are already growing in with only a very small handful of erfworlders having an idea the true horror they represent, unless some event causes the terrain to change.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:03 am 
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    [wanted to quote but it had a fit at the number of codes in it.]

    First thought regarding that is the end of book 1 where Sizemore mentions that changing terrain types is an almost titanic level of power so I doubt that would happen. Forgetting about the properties discussion and simply going to whether or not they grow, it's been stated that it counts as city farm so I'd imagine it has whatever upkeep rules a regular farm does.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:26 am 
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    TokraZeno wrote:
    [wanted to quote but it had a fit at the number of codes in it.]

    First thought regarding that is the end of book 1 where Sizemore mentions that changing terrain types is an almost titanic level of power so I doubt that would happen. Forgetting about the properties discussion and simply going to whether or not they grow, it's been stated that it counts as city farm so I'd imagine it has whatever upkeep rules a regular farm does.


    There's at least on non-titanic method of changing a hex's terrain -- inferno level fire. If only there were some loose cannon with a grudge against the buds that would be destructive enough to set the entire field on fire....

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:18 pm 
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    Inferno doesn't change the hex itself does it? Thought it only reduced a city to rubble, not change the hex it's on. Have they ever mentioned inferno level fire on non-city hexes? If it could, then you'd expect parts of the minty mountains to be aflame.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:17 pm 
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    TokraZeno wrote:
    Inferno doesn't change the hex itself does it? Thought it only reduced a city to rubble, not change the hex it's on. Have they ever mentioned inferno level fire on non-city hexes? If it could, then you'd expect parts of the minty mountains to be aflame.

    Book 2, Klog 5 http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -01-11.jpg
    raze city, destroy structure, and change hex to ash type

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:54 pm 
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    http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_10
    http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_27

    Buds are still present in Faq until its fall.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:52 am 
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    Flowers are present in Faq, yes.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:09 pm 
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    We don't know for sure whether those are actual hero buds in the pictures or whether Wanda just puts nonmagical flowers in her hair, do we?

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:55 pm 
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    They could be a less potent substitute. Or have the power to remove the need for other flowers without intoxicating her in any way, shape or form.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:59 pm 
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    ftl wrote:
    We don't know for sure whether those are actual hero buds in the pictures or whether Wanda just puts nonmagical flowers in her hair, do we?


    I'd suspect non-magical. Jillian doesn't wear them in book 1, so she must have been weaned off them in Faq. It seems safe to say that Stanley wouldn't grow them, so that leaves the Magic Kingdom as a possible source. Wanda hasn't been through a portal between BGK and the spacerock assault so she'd be in pretty serious withdrawl from a dead bud if that was the case.

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     Post subject: Re: Hero Buds
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:19 pm 
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    TokraZeno wrote:
    she'd be in pretty serious withdrawl from a dead bud if that was the case.
    Quote:
    If I had that, I would never stop casting it.

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