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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:30 am 
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When I first read the sentence about the implosion of space where Judy stood I imagined for a split second that mybe Judy exploded into a fountain of blood and chunks of meat that would go all over Olive , it would have been hilarious if it'd realy happened. And than Wanda saying "I guess there are still a few bugs in the shoes we need to work out..."

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:38 am 
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    Thinks a little bit.....

    Spoiler: show
    If someone thought of this I missed it. But this all might have HUGE implications for the comic at this point. We know for certain now that Judy was from another world. And that Judy was a Ruler. Hence people from other worlds can become Rulers. At this time Parson is in a *Capitol site* and cannot move out of said site and it is burning. The only one that has a real chance of stopping the burning is in the Magic Kingdom. And the MK can only connect to Spacerock is if it where a Capital of a side again. See what could happen here? :shock: :twisted: :mrgreen:

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:42 am 
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    Perhaps king Banhammer is acting this way because of his Fate. He's fated to die, and his daughter and heir is a psychopath. He wants to leave behind his chosen legacy, and suddenly he runs into a caster (the unit type he holds his philosophical debates with) ruler who's willing to absorb Faq, both in terms of units and of philosophy, and fight for peace. He wants to believe.

    And perhaps this is the right option. Because he knows that Faq under Jillian will be just another side. The odds of Haffaton carrying out Faq's legacy must seem to him to be greater even at this moment than Jillian carrying out Faq's legacy.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:49 am 
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    cheeseaholic wrote:
    And perhaps this is the right option. Because he knows that Faq under Jillian will be just another side. The odds of Haffaton carrying out Faq's legacy must seem to him to be greater even at this moment than Jillian carrying out Faq's legacy.

    I actually wouldn't be so sure. I think even Jillian recognizes the strategic advantage of FAQ's set-up and staying hidden as a bubble side. While she personally has no interest in all the philosphy stuff, there's nothing to say the casters couldn't continue it in her absence.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:53 am 
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    I'm still not convinced Charlie is from our world. Its clearly on the table if the Wizard of Oz parallel is exact rather than just another allusion, but understanding Parson's text-speak and all the rest could well come from having faced, and had his ass kicked by, a Stupidworlder once already. Charlie and Judy evidently spoke at some length despite being foes at one time, and Judy did spare his life, though she cost him his kingdom.

    If he is a Stupidworlder, he's clearly gone native. Willing to croak Parson for a Mathamancy artifact. Describes Parson as the most dangerous being on Erfworld. Found an angle as a bubble side mercenary and apparently isn't doing anything more than trying to survive for infinite turns of perpetual war. That's understandable for an Erfworlder, less so for a Stupidworlder.

    My own epileptic tree:
    Spoiler: show
    Charlie once was Maxwell the Thinkamancer, the caster who used the Arkenshoes to create living, aware golems, the one who held the side together, who explored two and three caster links, who went exploring Thinkamancy through Hippiemancy until he went too far out to sea and Olive denied him the way back. Technically eliminated as the unit named Maxwell, his consciousness merged with the Arkendish, and he reverted to a more defensive and self-protective strategy for his side and his self.

    Actually this may be precluded by the exact language of the reference to Charlie as the separate ruler of a side conquered by Haffaton, but I'm not remembering where to look for that one.


    ...

    Parson attuning to the 'shoes is a strong option now, if only because he needs them so much, being a Heavy who can't use mounts, and because a Stupidworlder has attuned once before. Props to those who predicted Jack saving Parson from a defeat this turn by sending him away, and Parson getting back with the 'shoes. Bad news for Jack's life expectancy though. :(

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:07 am 
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    C9H20 wrote:

    I'm rather disappointed as well that Banhammer is so stupid. I kept holding out for some deception and a moment of immense guile but... nothing.

    Frankly now all I can think of is that he is he dumbest person which ever lived, to have existed for so many turns, practiced philosophy for much of it and still be so utterly devoid of wisdom is almost incomprehensible to me.



    Have you ever talked with a philosophy major? Sure some may be smart, but just as many spend so much time thinking about the nature of reality (or lack there of) that they lose all grounding with reality. Why would someone who sits around and debates deep philosophy all day every day be any good at thinking on his feet? The so called 'wise philosopher king' who is actually an idiot is a pretty standard trope.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:17 am 
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    Confirmed: Banhammer is an idiot.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:33 am 
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    Oooooooooooooo!

    What if Parson is Judy's son?

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:58 am 
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    Wow, 4 pages of reaction and no one noticed something subtle.

    We now know how Haffaton could conquer cities so easily in the first part of Book 0. Remember how Haffaton could seemingly drop huge armies on cities very quickly? They would just drop with no warning. No one could figure out how they did it. The answer is the Archenshoes. Judy could probably extend her unlimited move to her stack (much like how Charlie can extend the dish to a few archons), then move them to location A. And since she had unlimited move, she could move whole armies if she did enough back and forth.

    If my hypothesis is correct, then I am willing to say the Archenshoes are the most powerful of the Archentools. Why? The Archenshoes allow a side to concentrate and disperse its forces instaneously. It allows them to move incapacitated units to remote caretakers.

    Also the reason I think this the most powerful is my experiences with the game Civilization 5. Usually in the game the enemy will have a much larger military, but the AIs always keeps them scattered out. I keep my army concentrated and in the ideal locations. When I think about it, I win every game of Civilization 5 thanks to superior deployment. If I had "perfect" deployment, then I there is no game I could not win if I did not have a small number of units. Essentially I could take my inferior army into then enemy's territory, avoid their forces, hit a city, and then retreat my forces back to my cities for healing. I just repeat the process until I have taken all their cities.

    In Erfworld this would be even more effective. Especially if you had a little Lookamancy. Assassination becomes a LOT more viable. And the threat of assassination becomes a powerful tool. Basically Judy could march up with her elite kill squad (an it sounds like she had one) and take out your ruler and heir I one turn. But if the ruler keeps his army close to stop assassination attempts, then Judy marches her army up to weak cities and takes you piece meal.

    Here is my new speculation. Parson will attune to the Archenshoes, and no other archentool.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:13 pm 
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    warriortribble wrote:
    bug wrote:
    This isn't necessarily true. In the movie Return to Oz, the ruby slippers fell off her feet and ended up in the possession of the gnome king. The shoes could be anywhere.

    Not impossible, but I'm putting my money on Judy having the shoes. Unlike in the book where Dorothy flew back to Kansas, it sounds like Judy was directly teleported back to where she wanted to go ("as if the air where Judy was standing had slammed together and made her implode").


    Either way, the slippers add another dimension to this conversation http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2011-07-07.jpg. I'm pretty sure it's some foreshadowing for possibly when Parson gets a hold of the ruby slippers. If the ruby slippers are in stupidworld, then most likely Parson will find himself there, probably with the scroll, otherwise Judy will have to be summoned to Erfworld.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:31 pm 
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    Banhammer could be acting so apparantly stuipd right now, because he is unders ome sort of datomancy spell. Tommy couldn't think straight around her either. She seems to be able to make people fall in love with her, when she wants to.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:44 pm 
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    What if Parson has the arkenshoes right now, but doesn't know he has them? Although this would mean that they would have to have some kind of minor intelligence or there are some rules that the arkentools abide by, given that parson couldnt leave GK as a garrison unit, except to the magic kingdom, which may count as a technicality since it isnt technically crossing a hex. (Would be fun if teleportation is possible in erfworld. Teleport garrison units away to other hexes where they quite possibly cant leave.)

    Anyways: there's my epileptic tree.

    Edit: also, less crazy theory: other than the Arkenshoes, it seems that magical items from erfworld do not leave with the stupidworlders who go back. Would this mean that the tiara, amulet, and broomstick staff all have similar functions to parson's glasses, bracer, and the sword of ruthlessness? If so, then what did charlie get, assuming he is also from stupidworld. This may mean that the amulet may not be mathamancy, or charlie lost his when he got booted out of his first kingdom.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:57 pm 
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    Jabberwocky wrote:
    Obviously, the Hammer lets its user turn into a super Dwagon. Changemancy for the shapeshifting, flight, lightning breath and the rocking out is for the transformation sequence.

    Hopefully, Stanley's transformation sequence is one of the 'fully clothed' ones.



    Now I can't get the image of Stanley doing a nude "magical girl" transformation sequence out of my head. You bastard. :D

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:14 pm 
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    Now that we've established the shoes as a motion artifact, it's possible that all 4 known arkentools lie along the motion axis, and the fate axis:

    Dollamancy
    Thinkamancy
    Croakamancy
    Carnymancy

    Dollamancy fits because of the golems, and because of this being the only 'pure motion' discipline. The others combine motion with something else.

    ---

    Since we're having the hammer discussion again, Hammer can:

    Tame dwagons
    Allow dwagon production
    Allow user flight
    Produce massive damaging aoe effects
    Turn small objects into living things

    It seems that the Arkenhammer's special superiority is that it gives the actual wielder great power in combat, unlike the others, which...marginally increase stats? Or do nothing. This is a perfectly reasonable distinction, and sounds exactly like the sort of item a artificer would create. All arkentools have exploitable powers, so this is established as well. Until we have more information, the arkenhammer makes perfect sense compared to the others.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:37 pm 
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    Saladman wrote:
    Parson attuning to the 'shoes is a strong option now, if only because he needs them so much, being a Heavy who can't use mounts, and because a Stupidworlder has attuned once before. Props to those who predicted Jack saving Parson from a defeat this turn by sending him away, and Parson getting back with the 'shoes. Bad news for Jack's life expectancy though. :(


    I see it differently, I think parson will tell Jack to cast the scroll on himself (Jack) and he will find the arkenshoes as we now know Jack is the only one in Spacerock atm who knows where they are as he heard Judy call for Kansas.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:51 pm 
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    :-) wrote:
    I see it differently, I think parson will tell Jack to cast the scroll on himself (Jack) and he will find the arkenshoes as we now know Jack is the only one in Spacerock atm who knows where they are as he heard Judy call for Kansas.


    You're assuming the scroll teleports the user to any location he desires, or specifically sends the caster to Ohio, but I doubt that's the case. More likely it is a scroll of banishment, sending extra-dimensional beings back to their home plane of existence. If Jack were to use the scroll on himself, most likely it would either do nothing or send him back to Gobwin Knob, or possibly even Faq.

    I think now that the secrets out about what the 4th Arkentool is, we will see a Blog entry where Parson had already asked about the arkenshoes and his thoughts on the subject.


    Last edited by Glome on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:57 pm 
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    Zeku wrote:

    Since we're having the hammer discussion again, Hammer can:
    ...
    Turn small objects into edible things
    FTFY

    Think of how stupidly useful that would be if Stanley could control it? He could feed an entire army of dwagons with naught but the materials making up the ground. Especially if he is having super long turns on dwagon flight. It might even count as training!

    Anyway the arkentools are situational. The arkenshoes rock for escapes and assassination attempts if you yourself are personally strong. The hammer is great if you have mountains and a relay system. The Pliers can turn a strong lead over your opponent into an ever more massive lead. The arkendish is great for information, buffs, and salable products. However the shoes are pretty useless if you need to save your ruler. The hammer is not all that great if you don't have a good array of scouts. The pliers are a lot less useful if you aren't a croakamancer. The dish has shown little in the way of direct combat abilties.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:58 pm 
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    Silverhorn wrote:
    We now know how Haffaton could conquer cities so easily in the first part of Book 0. Remember how Haffaton could seemingly drop huge armies on cities very quickly? They would just drop with no warning. No one could figure out how they did it. The answer is the Archenshoes. [...]
    If my hypothesis is correct, then I am willing to say the Archenshoes are the most powerful of the Archentools. Why? The Archenshoes allow a side to concentrate and disperse its forces instaneously. It allows them to move incapacitated units to remote caretakers.[...]
    In Erfworld this would be even more effective. Especially if you had a little Lookamancy. Assassination becomes a LOT more viable. And the threat of assassination becomes a powerful tool. Basically Judy could march up with her elite kill squad (an it sounds like she had one) and take out your ruler and heir I one turn. But if the ruler keeps his army close to stop assassination attempts, then Judy marches her army up to weak cities and takes you piece meal.

    There's no hint whatsoever that the shoes affect more than one unit. No other arkentool or magic item does that (empowering an area spell, or veiling an unit from the sight of many doesn't count). I'm not saying that's not possible, just that the update said "you" rather than "your stack".

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:16 pm 
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    Jamus wrote:
    And then there's Olive. Olive, who wages war with peace, and discovers that peace magic isn't actually enough to bring peace to Erfworld. Olive, who is both Overlady AND Caster. Whose side just fell apart along with everything she worked for. Who is in a city that is about to fall (probably with her head) but also, incidentally, in the garrison. So she darts into the MK. Lets her side fall to FAQ behind her. She becomes a barbarian. She can't ever leave the MK until Jillian is dead, because Jillian will kill her. So she doesn't.
    The problem with this theory is that text updates are supposed to be non-essential. They'll give background on the main characters, but ultimately they have to be self-contained. The twist you're describing would fundamentally change the main story, which a text update can't really do.

    (Working Charlie into this backstory isn't the same -- nothing we've learned about him really changes how we look at him in the main story; it hints a bit more strongly that he might be from earth, but a lot of people suspected that anyway, and it didn't confirm it. This provides elaboration rather than a DRAMATIC TWIST that completely changes his character.)

    I seriously doubt Olive will survive this.

    Castamir wrote:
    There's no hint whatsoever that the shoes affect more than one unit. No other arkentool or magic item does that (empowering an area spell, or veiling an unit from the sight of many doesn't count). I'm not saying that's not possible, just that the update said "you" rather than "your stack".
    It does at least allow infinite free scouting. And free transportation of other artifacts. And if it allows you to move out-of-turn (or at night!), it could be used for all sorts of other outrageous exploits, I'm sure.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:35 pm 
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    Hello, I joined the forums after lurking for so long to say: I imagine Judy sounding exactly like Phyllis Diller. That is all.

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