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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:50 am 
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There should be enough dwagons left to get all the important units airborn. Of course, Parson isn't likely to leave everyone else to die. I'll guess he either tries to burn/destroy everything in an area to make a safe spot, tries to make Jack banish the fire with the scroll, or pays to remake the city as it's burning. GK can afford the non-dirtamancer price.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:45 pm 
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    There is another possible outcome and reason for Jack's expression. He knows they're going to die. Parson didn't feel comfortable ordering units to their death without risking it himself. Well, now's his chance to experience the horror of war first hand. Maggie and Stanley should both know if Parson croaks. If Parson is able to at least take the city Maggie might convince Stanley to change the capitol and get herself and Wanda in to decrypt Parson and Jack, along with the other units in the city like Ace and Artemis as others have mentioned. The really interesting part of this scenario is what Parson experiences. Will he return to the "real world" temporarily? "Oh thank goodness, it was all just a dream. Oh crap, I'm going back in..." Then Parson will have a new set of rules to battle internally with, that of being one of Wanda's decrypted.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:54 pm 
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    I couldn't understand why Jack was there, without juice, until I noticed Parson is still carrying the Carneymancy scroll. Will he be tempted to use it, to save his own boop?

    The setup seems to suggest a couple of options: Parson captures the garrison, imprisons all remaining Jetstone units, and either orders them out to "save themselves", or orders them to work together to fight the fire. Either way, his ability to value life over victory will not go unnoticed by Jetstone.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:01 pm 
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    fehler wrote:
    I couldn't understand why Jack was there, without juice, until I noticed Parson is still carrying the Carneymancy scroll. Will he be tempted to use it, to save his own boop?

    The setup seems to suggest a couple of options: Parson captures the garrison, imprisons all remaining Jetstone units, and either orders them out to "save themselves", or orders them to work together to fight the fire. Either way, his ability to value life over victory will not go unnoticed by Jetstone.


    The thing is, the trap only makes sense if Charlie knew for a fact that Jetstone was going to burn, which sounds like Predictamancy to me. In which case, it really is going to burn, and whatever plan Parson comes up with doesn't involve putting the fire out. Not successfully anyway.

    I think that the scroll of disappearing Parson is going to be used at some point. Narrative Causuality requires it.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:09 pm 
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    Since the fire counts as a Dirtamancy trap, is it possible for Parson to fight the fire with a big bonus by using the Staff of Suckage? I'm not sure if magic needs to be actually directed at the holder for it to activate, but getting close enough to the fire to be damaged would seem like enough to count if that's the case.

    He does mention in the Klog as well that there is some nuance to fire beyond what he summarised, so I wonder if it would even be possible for the Staff of Suckage to match a Dirtamancer in putting out an inferno-class blaze? Dirtamancer removes Dirtamancy from the trap to put out the fire versus Staff of Suckage sucking up the Dirtamancy from the trap to put out the fire?

    Also, as a caster, Jack might get even better use out of the Staff, and if it works as some similar RPG-type items do, it might even be able to restore some of his juice proportional to the strength of the magic it sucks in.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:25 pm 
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    I dunno. Natural magic has been shown to be quite different than casted magic.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:13 pm 
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    Ok umm sorry if someone else mentioned it on another page. But why does that female unit in the background of the 2nd to last row, middle panel have a black flower on the skull instead of a pink one?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:19 pm 
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    The "Difficulty level" comment made me think back to John Scalzi's essay.

    I wonder how "shit's on fire" compares to "straight white male" and "black lesbian".

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:38 pm 
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    Ok, I was thinking: why is Jack there and why do we have a scroll that transports to Earth? And I came up with: its 'couse Parson will make Jack use the scroll on himself so Jack will get transported to Earth!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:20 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    The "Difficulty level" comment made me think back to John Scalzi's essay.

    I wonder how "shit's on fire" compares to "straight white male" and "black lesbian".


    Actually, it's more in line with real difficulty settings it goes something like.

    High Socio Economic Status
    Low SES
    Boop's on Fire
    No SES
    Low SES bad Parents
    Any indigenous population that suffered under imperialism and/or expansionism and has a suicide rate 10x+ higher than the national average especially in countries that held to Manifest Destiny.
    " and has an gender role not matching societies expectations of their sex.
    Etc.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:20 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    elecampane wrote:
    Actually, I would say that the first half of the page tells us that Charlie didn't order portal closing and the second half shows that portal was closed. Perhaps, Slately did on with his own volition?
    I think you're miss-reading this. The first half shows that Charlie made Slately wait to close the portal. The plan was to close the portal, but not until after Parson went through it. The second half shows that Slately closed the portal after Parson came through... which suggests to me that Charlie got off the other line where he was watching Parson go through the portal, called Slately, and gave him the OK to close the portal... all off camera (thank the Titans).

    There're no deviations from the plan at all in this update that I see... just Rob making some issues of timing clear and Parson catching up with what the readers already know... and catching up very quickly and in entertaining fashion.

    But why is it important that Charlie made Slateley wait to close the portal? From what we see, he probably hasn't even had to wait for long, since it all happened on the same page, and we already got that Charlie is rude to the king during their previous talk. And to make timing clear one panel with Slately on a throne just before panel with the portal closing would be enough. And since we didn't actually see him reciving signal from Charlie or ordering the change of capitals, it probably means that having to wait was somehow more important that order to change capitals itself.
    Of course I can be wrong, but it just feels like the first half should contain more information than "Slately made it to the throne, Charlie is rude". The second half certanly contains much more.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:22 pm 
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    elecampane wrote:
    effataigus wrote:
    elecampane wrote:
    Actually, I would say that the first half of the page tells us that Charlie didn't order portal closing and the second half shows that portal was closed. Perhaps, Slately did on with his own volition?
    I think you're miss-reading this. The first half shows that Charlie made Slately wait to close the portal. The plan was to close the portal, but not until after Parson went through it. The second half shows that Slately closed the portal after Parson came through... which suggests to me that Charlie got off the other line where he was watching Parson go through the portal, called Slately, and gave him the OK to close the portal... all off camera (thank the Titans).

    There're no deviations from the plan at all in this update that I see... just Rob making some issues of timing clear and Parson catching up with what the readers already know... and catching up very quickly and in entertaining fashion.

    By why is it important that Charlie made Slateley wait to close the portal? From what we see, he probably hasn't even had to wait for long, since it all happened on the same page, and we already got that Charlie is rude to the king during their previous talk. And to make timing clear one panel with Slately on a throne just before panel with the portal closing would be enough. And since we didn't actually see him reciving signal from Charlie or ordering the change of capitals, it probably means that having to wait was somehow more important that order to change capitals itself.
    Of course I can be wrong, but it just feels like the first half should contain more information than "Slately made it to the throne, Charlie is rude". The second half certanly contains much more.

    First six panels tell plenty. Slately is not the important thing to Charlie right now. He's working on something in the background, otherwise he could have answered with a 3 second thinkagram. "wait for it.... wait for it.... and NOW!" It also shows that they are in a HUGE chamber, so they have good visibility (+/- the smoke screen) of any on-coming attackers (not that the group would be able to hold off just about anyone other than just a juiceless Jack and Parson). It also illustrates the sense of urgency within the RTC that may be lacking on Charlie's end. Charlie also displayed the same demeanour towards Jillian after she dropped Kingworld and bolted. The usefulness to Charlie had been used up, so no need to the sweet talking flattery that he had when setting up the contract. Slately can be bled completely dry at this point. The callousness from Charlie and the impatience of Slately demonstrate this very well. Kinda like a junkie and a drug dealer. "C'mon man, I need my next fix, and I need it bad....". "So? You got the $300? NO? Then too bad." Things will get much worse for Slately before he depops or gets croaked. Panel 6 does a wonderful job of illustrating the isolation SLately must be going through now. He's sent a good chunk of his troops away, prepped his heir to assume the throne, and gone off for one final heroic death...but we all must face death alone.

    The first six panels set up a lot of atmosphere, rather than cramming data and action down our throats. It's an artistic balance that has it's own potency. Much like the eerie silence in between sonic blasts before the tower fell. There's going to be plenty of action coming up. These panels set that up.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:27 pm 
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    I just randomly had a realization that it panel 7 Jack sounds like he's making a Clue accusation.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:49 pm 
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    :-) wrote:
    Ok, I was thinking: why is Jack there and why do we have a scroll that transports to Earth? And I came up with: its 'couse Parson will make Jack use the scroll on himself so Jack will get transported to Earth!


    Hey yeah, this is similar to what I was going to theorize. Charlie wants Parson in a position where he will either die or use the scroll: win-win for Charlie. But Parson is more likely to hand the scroll to Jack if he thinks* everyone in the city is going to croak than to use it himself. Could send Jack to Earth... could be giving Jack to Charlie.

    Hell, if it discriminates by user, it could send Jack to Jillian.

    *Thinks being the operative word.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:44 pm 
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    coyotenose wrote:
    :-) wrote:
    Ok, I was thinking: why is Jack there and why do we have a scroll that transports to Earth? And I came up with: its 'couse Parson will make Jack use the scroll on himself so Jack will get transported to Earth!


    Hey yeah, this is similar to what I was going to theorize. Charlie wants Parson in a position where he will either die or use the scroll: win-win for Charlie. But Parson is more likely to hand the scroll to Jack if he thinks* everyone in the city is going to croak than to use it himself. Could send Jack to Earth... could be giving Jack to Charlie.

    Hell, if it discriminates by user, it could send Jack to Jillian.

    *Thinks being the operative word.

    Similar to an idea I had brewing. Charlie may not be the one to swoop in for the victory here, He could be sending in TV and Jillian. Faq could use three more casters, especially since the queen already is familiar with the foolamancer. The dollamancer would round out the trio, and Jillian could at least appreciate his gift for making toys. Maybe even a giant salad fork specifically for plucking out eyes. If Faq were lucky enough to gain Parson, that could set up Book 3 to pit Faq vs GK, leaving Parson to go up against the scary version of Wanda and the insane defenses of GK and two arkentools. That would be an awesome story. The scroll could be used to send Ansom home, turning him back to Jetstone (preluded to Ossomer's quote when falling to his doom). Using Jack as bait for Jillian may be too much for her to resist, and it also matches up to his statement of "ask again later" (or something to that effect) when she asked him to turn at expository bridge. Of course, Jack, Jillian, and Parson on one side may be enough to turn Wanda, which may set Stanley off. Then what happens if they have to battle against Sizemore and Maggie? Tough choices.

    If they split up the spoils between Faq and TV, that could also make for some very interesting storytelling. Jack would match the skin tones of TV very well, but there would be some strife between Ace and the TV dollamancer. Ace would likely go to Faq. Parson on TV's side could be a rematch of the mountain pass, giving Caesar a second chance at Stanley.

    Or Tram could be intercepted by Charlie, and sent back to Spacerock to reclaim the city immediately after it burns to ash. If Parson does the bubble shield thing, he'll be a sitting duck. Jetstone and the RCC vs GK: Round 2 -- Fight!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:36 am 
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    My prediction for how this will play out:

    Spoiler: show
    1) The last Klog just established you need a Dirtamancer to stop an Inferno from destroying everything in a hex. Turn rules prevent those within the hex from leaving it.

    2) Sizemore is in the MK, but now there is no portal for him to come through (and the MK would prohibit him going through an enemy portal, even if he wanted to).

    3) The whole Inner Peace storyline established that Wanda is an heir to a defunct side.

    4) Jetstone is a capital site.

    5) Previous stories have established that large sides can split off new allied sides.

    So, I think what will happen is that GK will split off a new side, with Wanda its overlord, and Jetstone as its capital site. A friendly portal will then be available for Sizemore to travel through, who will then pull Parson's fat from the fire.


    Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Also "Difficulty Level: Shit's On Fire" really cracked me up.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:51 am 
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    Solutions to the problem:

    1) Controlled Burn! Burn a chunk of the city to ash, put it out and stand inside.

    2) Bubblegum shield! Gum up an area to a degree where fire can't cross it. Possibly directly on the units needing protection.

    3) Hot air trap! Similar to a hot air balloon, but it counts as a trap. Parson flies away. Probably requires fabrication and cloth making to pull it off. A.K.A. Ace.

    4) The obvious solution! Wanda spins off a new side.

    5) The wtf solution! King Ansom orders the original capital sold to another side forcing the capital back to Jetstone.

    6) The lame solution. Ace makes some fire resistant armor.

    7) Kill Charlie! If that scroll is supposed to undo the perfect warlord spell it should be able to send the target anywhere in existence. Send the inferno to an empty field. Or Charlie.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:30 am 
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    Angband wrote:
    My prediction for how this will play out:

    Spoiler: show
    1) The last Klog just established you need a Dirtamancer to stop an Inferno from destroying everything in a hex. Turn rules prevent those within the hex from leaving it.

    2) Sizemore is in the MK, but now there is no portal for him to come through (and the MK would prohibit him going through an enemy portal, even if he wanted to).

    3) The whole Inner Peace storyline established that Wanda is an heir to a defunct side.

    4) Jetstone is a capital site.

    5) Previous stories have established that large sides can split off new allied sides.

    So, I think what will happen is that GK will split off a new side, with Wanda its overlord, and Jetstone as its capital site. A friendly portal will then be available for Sizemore to travel through, who will then pull Parson's fat from the fire.


    Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Also "Difficulty Level: Shit's On Fire" really cracked me up.


    Wanda's in the magic kingdom, so it would be difficult or impossible for her to found a new side with a capital she wasn't standing in.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:54 am 
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    :-) wrote:
    Ok, I was thinking: why is Jack there and why do we have a scroll that transports to Earth? And I came up with: its 'couse Parson will make Jack use the scroll on himself so Jack will get transported to Earth!


    He would be sent to where he once belonged, Faq not Earth.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 100
     Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:04 am 
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    peteratjet wrote:
    fehler wrote:
    I couldn't understand why Jack was there, without juice, until I noticed Parson is still carrying the Carneymancy scroll. Will he be tempted to use it, to save his own boop?

    The setup seems to suggest a couple of options: Parson captures the garrison, imprisons all remaining Jetstone units, and either orders them out to "save themselves", or orders them to work together to fight the fire. Either way, his ability to value life over victory will not go unnoticed by Jetstone.


    The thing is, the trap only makes sense if Charlie knew for a fact that Jetstone was going to burn, which sounds like Predictamancy to me. In which case, it really is going to burn, and whatever plan Parson comes up with doesn't involve putting the fire out. Not successfully anyway.


    Not necessarily, to me it seem rather obvious that what Charlie is doing is simply watching the situation attentively, probably via hired Lookamancer. When he saw that a fire will likely spread he changed his plans accordingly, by contacting Jojo as we saw. I think such fluent playstyle suits Charlie way more then relying on Predictamancy, doubly so given implications that the act of prediction is what sets Fate in motion, it is very possible that Charlie would get bad Predictamancy when he uses it "against" someone heavily fated like Parson.
    Disregarding the above my point is that it suits Charlie way more to adapt to new situations and act accordingly (as witnessed by his rules) then have a single unbeatable master plan that spans since forever, also not to mention more plausible.

    @Bladestorm, if Jetstone Jack is indeed an imposter I would say it is a completely new caster, also a Foolamancer or very proficient in the field. Erfworlders have a sense for certain mechanics of their universe, like stacking or unit ownership/state. To properly fool them the imposter would need more then a mere veil, he would have to fake these senses as well. One could claim that a sufficiently advanced veil could in theory fool these senses as well, but it seems way more likely to me that such nuanced Foolamancy has to be induced by the caster on the spot.

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