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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:05 am 
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So far it seems like the biggest rulebreaker/gamechanger in erfworld (except for being from stupidworld) is a 3 caster linkup.

As such, my thoughts for how to defy fate immediately leap to a Thinkamancer/Predictamancer/X linkup. The question is what X should be. My initial idea was a Carneymancer to allow the linkup to cheat fate. Upon further thought though, a Changamancer to change Fate or a Deletionism-mancer to destroy a given route might work too. Since Carneymancy is the intersection of Life, Motion, AND Matter with Fate, I think that it's probably the best bet.

If you really want to stretch things a link up involving a luckamancer, date-o-mancer, and/or turnamancer might allow you to seduce/enslave/turn Lady Luck or Fate if they happen to be sentient (totally a possibility in Erfworld)

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     Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:38 pm 
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    A couple of reminders, first: Deletionism no longer exists, as it was deleted to make way for Retconjuration, and three-way caster links are the limit of linking, except possibly with the use of the Arkendish (" It's a risky and fragile spell, especially with three. Four can't even be done." - TBFGK 54)

    From what we've heard about Fate, it's sort of like a French waiter... if you try to work with it, things run sort of smoothly and your Fate is delivered in a pretty straightforward manner. If you try to make things hard, dodging and delaying it, your Fate will still arrive, only cold and with spit in it. In the last couple of IPTSF, we've been given the idea that even if you snuck into the back, and destroyed the Fate you were supposed to have... you'd just get a substitution, that's even less to your liking.

    All that being said, I think Changemancy or Weirdomancy would be the best bets for a Fate-defying link up.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:58 pm 
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    We already have an example of a a Carneymancer doing something... odd... with Fate. And this alteration gave one character Fate/Plot armor, to the detriment of those around them. Further, the same Mancer did discuss cheating Fate with a protagonist... Perhaps he wasn't making that up to score a mark.

    What would a Carneymancer linked with a Wierdomancer or Changamancer be able to do?

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:05 pm 
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    Predictamancer-Thinkamancer-Weirdomancer: "You are fated to someday use the entire phrase 'I live in a giant bucket.'"
    Poor hapless soul: "What, what does 'I live in a giant bucket' even mean??"
    Predictamancer-Thinkamancer-Weirdomancer: "BEHOLD OUR/MY POWER!"

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    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.

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     Post Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:03 am 
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    Use-mention distinction failure.

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     Post Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:01 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    Use-mention distinction failure.
    The trimancer told me to tell you that they predict that they'll give you a wedgie.

    ... when you least expect it.

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    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:01 pm 
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    Actually, for my money I wouldn't take a Predictamancer along for the ride. Want to defy Fate? Mathamancer-Thinkamancer-Carneymancer. If Fate is absolute, then there's zero chance of Fate can be defied and the premise is invalid. Given the assumption that Fate can be defied, that allows for a chance that another event may occur in place of the Fated one. Probability is Numbers. Numbers is Mathamancy.

    It has already been shown that Mathamancy can make sophisticated long-term predictions about the future. Yes, that was Parson's Augmented Watch, but Mathamancy nonetheless. With a sufficiently skilled Mathamancer aided by a Thinkamancer, it could be argued that it could be done again and maybe better. It has also been shown that Luckamancers can nudge things in the short term, and possibly in the long term based on Count Downer's comments, but Carneymancers are the wild cards of Erfworld. In addition, they are on the Axis of Fate, leading to the choice of Carneymancer over Luckamancer.

    Make predictions with Mathamancy. The probably of the Fated event occurring may be 99.6%, leaving a very small chance for something else to happen. If anyone can make sure that someone hits that .4% window, it's a Carneymancer.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:20 am 
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    Or it could follow the Hitmen for Destiny model, and the more Fate is followed, the more likely it is for Fate to be followed - but once you break it a little then it gets weaker and weaker. In that story, there was a baby born who was destined to slay many beasts. Three of them came after him right away, and two were struck dead by lightning or something in order to preserve the bulk of the predictions. But the fact remained that he couldn't then slay them himself, and after that point, fate got weaker and weaker until people began propping it up, whereupon it began getting stronger again.

    I kind of doubt this is how it'll work here, but there could be some sort of breaking event where it just stops working altogether.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:10 pm 
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    Speaking of Carnamancy, you could probably use a double carny link to temporarily bypass the linking number limit.

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     Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:05 am 
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    Maybe, but if regular trimancer links were mind-breaking, I wouldn't want to see what a larger, Carnymancy-mediated link would do to the participants.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:19 am 
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    If some link up was able to defy fate I think someone would have done that already. It is not outside the reasoning of native erfworlds. The first step to defying fate is finding out exactly how it works. That is what Parson will do. Talk to predictamancers, as difficult as that would be, and get them to tell you everything they know about how their disipline works and what fate is. Parson may be the only one able to do that. Talk to Carnymancers and find out what they know about breaking fate. Talk to mathamancers and thinkamancers. Once the underlaying mechanisims are understood, then it could be possible to find a way to crack it.

    Parson may also be the only one who could persuade a predictamancer to join a link up, as one step in the process. I see a possible Marie/Issac/? linkup in the future.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:44 pm 
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    Sir_Dr_D wrote:
    I see a possible Marie/Issac/?


    I could see Parson as the Third person here. Then a second link with Thinkamancer and Carnymancer and Parson, using what he got from the first link to act on the second.

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     Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:38 pm 
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    And there are many ways to break thing other then with linkups. Other possibilites:

    - Effective use of an arkentool
    - Bringing all the arkentools toegther.
    - destroying an arkentool, thus making many of fates plans obsolete
    - teaching more units about lateral thinking, and increasing the free will among units. This can make the outcomes of events much harder to control and predict.
    - understanding enough about fate and how erfworld works, that Parson can always find ways to win. And thus what fate wants to happen cannot occur, and the Erfworld equilibrium starts to crack.
    - Perhaps fate cannot be beaten. Parson could be fated to break erfworld rules, not fate. Being fated to break fate isn't exactly breaking fate. You are doing what fate wants. I don't think this will be the outcome, as it is a bit of a depressing message. But it is still a possiblity.

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