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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:57 pm 
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That is one brutal hippie. Jack is so clever isn't he.

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     Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:58 pm 
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    Hm... It certainly appears as though our good knave Jack was well on the road to a mastery of lateral thinking before Lord Parson arrived in Erfworld.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:24 pm 
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    If it is appropriate to call someone "late" if they are dead, is it arguably appropriate to call them "early" if they haven't yet showed up or been born?

    Now that that is out of the way...

    This update was a little bit unexpected for me. I, like many, figured the Faq flying column was near Efbaum (Efdup? whichever), but there are two weirdnesses to this update...
    1. Why did Faq end turn in the Efbaum airspace last turn?
    2. How did they know Jillian was there without knowing that the Overlord was there?

    I assumed that Charlie told them about Efbaum, but I'm forced to wonder why he didn't also tell him about the Overlady? Okay, I could see reasons for that, perhaps... maybe. Alternate theories are that Marie predicted this event and therefore it happened or that Orwell "saw" Jillian whilst cruisin' through the Haffaburbs. Lastly, I suppose it is possible that they happened upon this place, but it seems unlikely. Haffaton is a big place for this to be a coincidence, and Jillian didn't mention this place on her way from Haffaton toward Faq. Similarly, why did they end turn in the city airspace? That's where they ran out of move? They wanted to make sure that they had a full turn's worth of move left to GTFO on the turn that Haffaton realized that they were there? They wanted to observe under veil before dropping the Faq-bomb on Efbaum? Charlie asked them to? I don't confused me why... and stuff.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:34 pm 
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    I agree, I feel that FAQ at best acted strangely, and at worst royally effdup this situation. How they found the city in the first place is of course an interesting question, one which may be explained later but I'd be content to chalk it up to Fated Methods. Similar coincidences have occurred before apparently by the hand of Fate, and even if it weren't a coincidence in the sense we consider, what would you call a Prediction or Seeing? Just because Marie or Orwell found Jillian wouldn't make it any less of a coincidence in my opinion.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:36 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    This update was a little bit unexpected for me. I, like many, figured the Faq flying column was near Efbaum (Efdup? whichever), but there are two weirdnesses to this update...
    1. Why did Faq end turn in the Efbaum airspace last turn?
    2. How did they know Jillian was there without knowing that the Overlord was there?

    Efbaum. Efdup is the tower in Gobwin Knob.
    They have a very good Predictamancer, Lookamancer, and Foolamancer. With those three they could easily determine where Jillian was and hide in the airspace undetected. It is also entirely possible that they don't know who the Overlady is other than just another unit in the tower.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:42 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    I agree, I feel that FAQ at best acted strangely, and at worst royally effdup this situation. How they found the city in the first place is of course an interesting question, one which may be explained later but I'd be content to chalk it up to Fated Methods. Similar coincidences have occurred before apparently by the hand of Fate, and even if it weren't a coincidence in the sense we consider, what would you call a Prediction or Seeing? Just because Marie or Orwell found Jillian wouldn't make it any less of a coincidence in my opinion.


    A lookamancer was bound to find Jillian eventually. It would just be a matter of systematically searching each hex in Haffaton until out of juice, then continue the process the next day. Appearing at the nick of time might have more to do with Faq arguing about what to do when Jillian was found until the predictamancer chimed in that it was either rescue Jillian now or never that finally got them to act.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:13 am 
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    I hope we get an explanation, but one simple possibility is that Faq's casters may have observed that Jillian was always in that hex or the neighboring one, while Olive and Wanda would come and go. Olive may have already been in Efbaum when Faq arrived, and they may have decided to wait til she left to rescue Jillian, but then Olive forced their hand.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:11 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Just because Marie or Orwell found Jillian wouldn't make it any less of a coincidence in my opinion.

    Orwell would have been actively looking for Jillian. How is it a coincidence that he found her?
    If I lose my car keys, and find them while I am looking for them, is that a coincidence?
    Now, maybe you just mean that it was a coincidence that she was found just in time to save her life. If that's what you mean, I agree that Fate probably had something to do with it.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:11 pm 
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    GKBeetle wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Just because Marie or Orwell found Jillian wouldn't make it any less of a coincidence in my opinion.

    Orwell would have been actively looking for Jillian. How is it a coincidence that he found her?
    If I lose my car keys, and find them while I am looking for them, is that a coincidence?
    Now, maybe you just mean that it was a coincidence that she was found just in time to save her life. If that's what you mean, I agree that Fate probably had something to do with it.

    Even that might not be coincidence. Everything hurried along when they took all of FAQs cities and still had not conquered them. Olive was clearly distraught/shaken/whatever when she tried to convince Jillian of their death, which lead to the two of them being placed together which lead to their plan. Who knows how long FAQ had been waiting there, hiding in plain sight. If they had the schmuckers they might have been there the whole time where the enemy was least likely to actively look for them. Not like there was an entire army making spot checks in the ol' emerald city.

    If their hand was forced when to go to Jillian when their cities were taken, then they hid in wait until their hand was forced with fear of her death, there is a good causal chain and I'd say that "Wow I happened to crash my plane in the one spot in the entire alps that happened to be near the secret villain base I wasn't looking for but needed to find was." Coincidence doesn't really apply. Now it could be all wibbley wobbly fatey watey stuff.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:21 pm 
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    We already know that combo of predictomancer and foolomancer is powerful from book 1... can predict when foolomancer is needed.

    So also might predict whether enemy will succeed in spot checks on foolomancer veil.

    FAQ is very cautious and anti war. Jillian got caught when sacking an easy city target. So they may have decided to wait and watch, or got some prediction that was interpreted as waiting and watching was better.

    The main limitation to FAQ may be their purse, though perhaps they got prediction that purse would not run out.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:13 pm 
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    They appeared on the turn of Haffaton is seems. They were already there. They appeared exactly when they wanted to.They found the city by a powerful combination of lookamancy, predictamancy, mathamancy, and maybe even signamancy. This isn't a coincidence, its FAQ being awesome.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:36 pm 
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    GKBeetle wrote:
    Orwell would have been actively looking for Jillian. How is it a coincidence that he found her?
    If I lose my car keys, and find them while I am looking for them, is that a coincidence?
    Now, maybe you just mean that it was a coincidence that she was found just in time to save her life. If that's what you mean, I agree that Fate probably had something to do with it.

    No, the incredible coincidence is that every time you find something, it's invariably in the last place you look. If you could figure out a way to look in the last place first, just think of the time and effort you could save!

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:57 pm 
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    Lets not forget the prediction that jillian got earlier. The one she promptly ignored when she told her father to make air unit and other stuff. That one told her to make haste to wanda side to avoid pain or whatever. So in my opinion, what we are seeing is fate using banhammer as its tool tp fulfill the prediction. There's other forces at play but this was fated/predicted to happen and it is. Not in the way it was expected but thats how predictions/fate normally works.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:59 pm 
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    On the new gwyphon look: http://youtu.be/RZWwNlKn8xE

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:51 am 
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    Here's a new crackpot theory: Wanda knew that Faq's forces are there. She asked Olive twice if she is absolutely certain she wants Jill 'ended'.

    Only after the second time she looker over Olive's shoulder and pointed. She was preparing for "I was just obeying my orders." defense and you all heard it.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:39 am 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    In the Wizard of Oz movie, the Wicked Witch of the West tries to intimidate Dorothy Gale into giving up by flying on her broom and belching out black smoke to write the words "Surrender Dorothy"

    You can see a clip of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpPV2hhW46Q
    And for DC area residents, it holds another meaning. On the capitol beltway as you approach the Mormon Temple (which looks like a fairy tale castle) there is a train bridge which was often gratified with the words "Surrender Dorothy."

    Here is a better ending.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:48 am 
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    Just thinking after browsing the archives...

    Jack's explanation to Ansom of how to capture a leader unit that's being heavily protected: http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -11-14.jpg

    "It's quite a smart tactic... I was at hand when someone smarter than you invented it"

    I wonder if this is where he sees it invented?

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     Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:46 am 
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    Ardmore W. Jeepers wrote:
    Just thinking after browsing the archives...

    Jack's explanation to Ansom of how to capture a leader unit that's being heavily protected: http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -11-14.jpg

    "It's quite a smart tactic... I was at hand when someone smarter than you invented it"

    I wonder if this is where he sees it invented?


    He MEANT Parson. He really really really really meant Parson. The alternative involves a rusty trombone.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:32 am 
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    On the issue of knowing where Jillian is/was, is it not possible that Banhammer, as a ruler, has a rough idea on where all of his units are at any time?

    Rulers know when their units cwoak - maybe they know when they get hurt? Banhammer might have an implicit sense that says "unit Jillian is experiencing sever pain that-a-way..."

    Maybe the fact that Jillian is experiencing pain and not cwoaking turn after turn is what has driven Banhammer to act to rescue her.

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