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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:04 am 
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Perhaps, rather than waiting for Judy to die, Olive gets killed anyway. After all, Olive is <i>effectively</i> the ruler, in all but name. Thus, she could be called the "ruler" being, as she is, the one who rules. That way, the croaking can come much sooner. It would be nice to see. How it would be explained to the audience is a mystery, though.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:27 am 
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    Banhammer arrives, and instead of combat, he offers a tea ceremony to discuss acceptable terms of Faq's survival. Jillian is forced to provide the tea. She uses poisoned tea that she knows Banhammer is already immune to. They can banter back and forth over which vessel would be poisoned. Several famous examples of this can be found.

    Or Jillian can push Olive off the tower. Fall damage doesn't count as an attack. Or down the stairs.

    Or pry the crown off and latch it onto Olive's head.

    Or Wanda craps out a spell that removes Jillian's addiction and withdrawal.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:42 am 
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    Shai_hulud wrote:
    Also why are people so many so sure Olive is going to die? Wanda has to get those flowers from somewhere in the future at Faq. It at least seems plausible she might survive.

    Um what? Last I checked Wanda wasn't an addict while she was with FAQ, unless you're referring to the flower in her personal livery, which is purely symbolic, she wouldn't need a flower to make the livery.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:04 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    Shai_hulud wrote:
    Also why are people so many so sure Olive is going to die? Wanda has to get those flowers from somewhere in the future at Faq. It at least seems plausible she might survive.

    Um what? Last I checked Wanda wasn't an addict while she was with FAQ, unless you're referring to the flower in her personal livery, which is purely symbolic, she wouldn't need a flower to make the livery.

    She's been shown wearing a flower in her hair in the art depiciting a memory Jack had of the Faq era.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:09 am 
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    Ah okay thanks. I wouldn't take much from that though because of how healthy she looks, and the fact that it'd be such a stretch too. I expect that like much of what Wanda does, the flower in her hair then was a combination of function (in this case looking pretty) and her past (remembering Olive). Olive has done so much evil there is no way she will be allowed to live, much less with a side like FAQ.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:56 am 
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    drachefly wrote:
    Or they'd send Judy home. She ceases to be overlady of Haffaton, Olive accedes, gets whacked.
    I think this was Wanda's plan. However, with Olive's presence, the plan is on the fritz.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:56 am 
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    teratorn wrote:
    That was my take, Wanda uses the tower to fetch the shoes and send Judy home. The question is if a croakamancer stacked with a high-level warlord can stop a level 12 caster from casting the non-aggression thing. I expect Wanda to have a way to go around that (in the same venue Olive used to kill Tommy).

    It's possible the crown of thorns blocks all floristry. That would be delicious irony.

    I like the Wanda turns Judy theory. I've been wondering for a long time if natural Loyalty and Duty are to the Side or the Ruler, and we may find that if units are forced to choose, some will go one way (Wanda with Judy) and some will go the other (Olive with Haffaton - and then to the Titans via Jillian's bare hands). But I agree that Wanda was planning to do Findamancy on the shoes.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:00 am 
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    My guess: Wanda tries to cast a spell to turn Jillian, but has a critical failure. Think of all the negative modifiers at play:

    • Wanda is a captured unit herself (low loyalty of captured units has been mentioned)
    • Wanda clearly has a rapport with Jillian
    • Wanda is being treated like crap by Olive (Heroine withdrawal, Crown of Thorns)
    • Wanda is casting a difficult spell outside her discipline
    • Wanda is casting turnamancy against a high-level, resistant (Jillian lied about Faq troops to Olive's face) target
    • Wanda knows she is being ordered to defy fate

    So what could the consequence be for a spell going wrong? We saw Wanda getting hit with mental backlash from a Thinkamancy spell going wrong. What would the equivalent failure for a Turnamancy spell be?

    Spoiler: show
    How about the caster winds up turning, instead of the target?

    If Wanda winds up turning to Faq, then as an uncaptured Faq unit present with a captive, she can then free Jillian. Then Wanda and Jillian would be fighting Olive together.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:27 am 
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    Shai_hulud wrote:
    Or she never really predicted Haffaton would do it, and only said that after she heard Wanda was there.


    Hmm, she was suddenly spooked when Wanda's name was mentioned, so it is possible, but that also implies that Marie hid the correct wording of her prophecy from her ruler (she forgot to mention Wanda's certain involvement) and that is rather dubious, especially given that we know what happens next. Her shock could simply come from getting her prediction in that very moment, news that her side would fall, and soon, would be quite disturbing I imagine, and the Wanda talk preceding it could be a red herring, or it was a trigger since Wanda was the one to conquer Faq the first time as well.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:37 am 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    Efdup is in GK....

    Whoops... Efbaum.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:00 am 
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    My prediction is that Wanda will fail to turn Jillian,then croak her as ordered.

    This is definitely a thing that will happen! :D

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:37 am 
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    Oh man, Olive really has it coming.

    I hope Jillian can get her hands on some chop-sticks very soon. :evil:

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:12 am 
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    I guess I'm withholding judgement until the edits that were said to be coming to earlier parts of the story are made. Her personality cracks in those earlier pages, but seemed to be different than the kinds a psychopath would have. All the "Olive is obviously evil" statements sound too much like the "Wanda is obviously evil" and "Charlie is obviously evil" statements from the past for me to feel comfortable assuming there isn't some woobie back story to explain her behavior yet. Not saying she isn't irredeemably evil, just that the way she hesitated before is enough to make me unsure.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:25 pm 
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    Ok, I made this post last time about Maxwell possibly being Charles Maxwell, the voice of the unseen Radio Announcer on Gilligan's Island.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Maxwell

    I said, that while interesting, the timeline didn't really add up, so just one of those coincidences. Except he can apparently split his mind/life into fragments and put them in things, making them actual units. Maxwell went on a bad trip, and his mind didn't make it back. The Arkendish reads an awful lot of thinkamancy, so I'm now wondering if my silly comment is now actually more likely. It would seem to me that the possibility that the Dish is self-aware, a somewhat common suggestion on these forums, holds water after all. Is it possible that instead the former ruler of el-Efbaum, the one that Judy let escape, is not Charlie? I start to wonder if they became the source of one of the royal sides. Or if they are related to Charlie, is the former ruler more of a Bosly? No longer hiding behind the curtain, hiding in front of it?

    I'm curious again.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:33 pm 
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    So no one has explicitly said this so I'll be the first
    Quote:

    “No,” Wanda said. Then she cocked her head slightly. “Or I should say: not that I know of. She fought casters twice, but as far as I know, she does not herself cast.”

    Wanda can't see Judy's stats. Therefore Judy is an earth-worlder. Or possibly some other off-worlder.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:35 pm 
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    C9H20 wrote:
    Shai_hulud wrote:
    Or she never really predicted Haffaton would do it, and only said that after she heard Wanda was there.


    Hmm, she was suddenly spooked when Wanda's name was mentioned, so it is possible, but that also implies that Marie hid the correct wording of her prophecy from her ruler (she forgot to mention Wanda's certain involvement) and that is rather dubious, especially given that we know what happens next. Her shock could simply come from getting her prediction in that very moment, news that her side would fall, and soon, would be quite disturbing I imagine, and the Wanda talk preceding it could be a red herring, or it was a trigger since Wanda was the one to conquer Faq the first time as well.

    I wouldn't put that past a predictamancer who was working on a bigger prophecy. Don't forget they're all up in one of Parson's large destinies. Specifically this exact predictamancer. She has loyalty to the side and some people have suggested some units have loyalty to fate. But perhaps she really did see the only way FAQ could survive was through rebirth. She may have feared if she told them the single name of their destruction, they would try to elimintate it and Faq might be in trouble.

    Granted Jillian *has* to become important to wanda, due to another prediction.
    But what I think we can be sure of was that there wasn't or not to Marie's knowledge was there a prediction that said Wanda would be at FAQ. Unless she's playing some crazy thanatos gambit or some nonsense where she predicted the lies she'd have to tell to move smoothly with fate knowing she had to have Jillian activated by fear of an attack soon which moved Jillian to Wanda. Which moves wanda forward towards Parson. And when she finally reveals the meaning of everthything she does http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:59 pm 
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    Quote:
    When Maxwell perished, the scarecrow and the tin golem reverted to ordinary units. He hadn’t given them Life after all. They


    So the lion didnt revert to normal then? Is he still out there waiting for revenge?

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:17 pm 
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    Quote:
    Perhaps, rather than waiting for Judy to die, Olive gets killed anyway. After all, Olive is <i>effectively</i> the ruler, in all but name. Thus, she could be called the "ruler" being, as she is, the one who rules. That way, the croaking can come much sooner. It would be nice to see. How it would be explained to the audience is a mystery, though.


    I agree with Smurfton here. Olive is already ruling Haffaton. She stated she wasn't going to end turn which I thought only the ruler could do. Judy may be the ruler, but Olive is ruling Judy. Everyone in Erfworld is constantly misinterpreting predictions anyway. Ruler meaning "the action" rather than "the position" seems very plausible.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:49 pm 
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    zeuspro wrote:
    Quote:
    When Maxwell perished, the scarecrow and the tin golem reverted to ordinary units. He hadn’t given them Life after all. They


    So the lion didnt revert to normal then? Is he still out there waiting for revenge?


    Remember the last text update:

    Judy wrote:
    “You had brains enough. You just didn’t do anything about her! You were the one lacking courage,
    not him! He got himself killed for me. That was never you though! Ohhh no.”


    In the Oz story, the scarecrow is the one lacking brain, the ironman is missing a heart and the lion
    is the one missing the courage. So that definitely hints that the Lion got a glorious death.

    P.S: I love the turnamancy references. Delicious mix of subtle and shallow word games.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:05 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    So no one has explicitly said this so I'll be the first
    Quote:

    “No,” Wanda said. Then she cocked her head slightly. “Or I should say: not that I know of. She fought casters twice, but as far as I know, she does not herself cast.”

    Wanda can't see Judy's stats. Therefore Judy is an earth-worlder. Or possibly some other off-worlder.


    Well, actually I said so during episode 51 :) : http://www.erfworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6403&p=88905#p88905

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