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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:09 am 
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New One is up.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:24 am 
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    Thanks for the update.
    I guess the real torture starts when the flower dosen't give a high anymore.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:51 am 
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    Inner Peace 53 wrote:
    We need you to turn. You must.


    I wonder if Haffaton's working off of a shred of Predictomancy. Something non-specific on their side's particular fate, but pointing to Wanda as a winner. It doesn't have to be a caster of their own, it could be a consultant, or another left-over from Delphie Temple.

    Or perhaps I'm stretching, and worry over Faq's missing ruler and multiple casters on a heavy air force is enough to explain it.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:40 am 
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    Heh, nice Hitchhiker's reference.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:42 am 
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    Judging by the insect hallucination I'm guessing Jillian's happy happy trip is about to go bad. Grotesquely bad. Far worse than any physical torture.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:15 am 
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    Saladman wrote:
    Inner Peace 53 wrote:
    We need you to turn. You must.


    I wonder if Haffaton's working off of a shred of Predictomancy. Something non-specific on their side's particular fate, but pointing to Wanda as a winner. It doesn't have to be a caster of their own, it could be a consultant, or another left-over from Delphie Temple.

    Or perhaps I'm stretching, and worry over Faq's missing ruler and multiple casters on a heavy air force is enough to explain it.


    I think you mean Jillian, not Wanda.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:23 am 
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    Saladman wrote:
    I wonder if Haffaton's working off of a shred of Predictomancy. Something non-specific on their side's particular fate, but pointing to Wanda as a winner. It doesn't have to be a caster of their own, it could be a consultant, or another left-over from Delphie Temple.


    It does seem like anyone who knows anything about Predictamancy knows not to ignore it. (And Haffaton clearly does not ignore it, given their eagerness to fulfill Delphi's prediction about Olive becoming Wanda's chief caster.) But on the other hand, it seems like a bad interpretation of a Prediction is just that - bad. Trying to fulfill the terms of a Prediction the wrong way tends to go disastrously wrong, if Tommy's folly in trying to get Olive to turn was any indication.

    If Olive/Haffaton is trying to pull a Karma Houdini by fulfilling Delphi's Prediction involving Wanda and Jillian being together, we KNOW that they're in serious trouble, because Wanda and Jillian both work for Faq at some point in the future. And that would mean Delphi's poor delivery of a Prediction has likely doomed yet another side.

    Does anyone else get the feeling that having a Predictamancer around is actually a huge liability? Knowing something about the future but lacking proper context has proven to be incredibly dangerous in Erfworld.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:30 am 
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    I think that it depends on the level and skill of your predictamancer. Low level novice one? You are screwed if you listen to it. Expert one? You are screwed if you ignore it.
    Poor Jill has felt the pain of the first bad trip. Hopefully, the next one will force her to cut the habbit.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:54 am 
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    Hero(ine) buds. Heh. That's gonna get bad.

    I think the problem with Predictamancy is reacting to it. It is probably hard to not react too hard for or against.

    With Erfworld favoring popping casters when you are low on casters, 23 caster types, casters castin' off their discipline, and casters purchasable after side fall through the MK; there are probably a few sides operating on Predictamancy.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:12 am 
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    I wonder if its not usually quite possible to satisfy fate by changing the circumstances regarding a fated event - just like Tommy tried to do. I imagine "fate" to be something like a random invisible special that a unit might have, the knowledge of which could, if manipulated correctly, give you a huge advantage. The knowledge that stabber Barry is fated to croak the enemy warlord Sally would tell you to send him into the field rather than have him guarding the throneroom. If Barry was stationed in the throneroom, it seems reasonable to suggest that fate would rig the game enough to have Sally invade the city, just so she could be croaked. Less than ideal.

    The reason that predictamancy seems to be constantly backfiring in this book is that Wanda's fate is incredibly complex; to our knowledge, noone has yet discovered that Wanda is fated to attune to the Arkenpliers. All that the predictamancer(s?) have been picking up thus far are steps part-way along that journey. Indeed, even Marie didn't know which Arkentool Wanda would attune to, and if she had, FAQ wouldn't have fallen the way it did - perhaps not at all.

    So all this second-guessing and attempts to turn significant units might actually be the correct way of going about predictamancy, if only the prediction gave the end result.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:16 am 
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    Heroine, eh? I suspect the way she will get off it is by Method One, or by some Cold Turkey or something.

    In any case, if Haffaton really really really needs a competent warlord and one was dropped in their lap, it might be why they need Jillian to turn. No predictamancy is needed.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:55 am 
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    Mogster2 wrote:
    Heh, nice Hitchhiker's reference.


    Zaphod's just this guy, you know? :)

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:19 pm 
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    Poor Wanda. :(

    The need for Gillian... it may be that they know that Wanda is destined to spend some time with Gill, but are unsure about the meaning of the 'next stage of her journey' part. Or that Olive is trying to spin that as time spent in the Garden.

    Ambug666 wrote:
    Heroine, eh? I suspect the way she will get off it is by Method One, or by some Cold Turkey or something.

    In any case, if Haffaton really really really needs a competent warlord and one was dropped in their lap, it might be why they need Jillian to turn. No predictamancy is needed.

    Wanda's crown may help her there.

    It could be that they're having trouble popping Warlords, or Units in general, we haven't seen anything that screams 'freshly popped' in their Cities. But Wanda does have a destiny. Olive knows it. And a note relating to that destiny was left, by Delphie 'Bane of Goodminton' Temple, in a City that was subsequently conquered by Haffaton.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:21 pm 
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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:33 pm 
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    Orzel wrote:
    With Erfworld favoring popping casters when you are low on casters, 23 caster types, casters castin' off their discipline, and casters purchasable after side fall through the MK; there are probably a few sides operating on Predictamancy.


    I think it was mentioned that mercenary predictamancers who live in the MK after their sides fell are rarely rehired - letting your side fall is seen as a major strike against you.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:31 pm 
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    I'm inclined to speculate on whether Haffaton has ended up with a Goodminton-like "Jillian will be Wanda's CW" prediction: given how important Wanda's uncroaked seem to be for Haffaton's expansion, they may feel that they can't afford to lose her - and thus must get Jillian.

    Incidentally, if this were true, it'd make Wanda and Jillian's parley over Spacerock rather more interesting.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:33 pm 
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    WaterMonkey314 wrote:
    I'm inclined to speculate on whether Haffaton has ended up with a Goodminton-like "Jillian will be Wanda's CW" prediction: given how important Wanda's uncroaked seem to be for Haffaton's expansion, they may feel that they can't afford to lose her - and thus must get Jillian.

    Incidentally, if this were true, it'd make Wanda and Jillian's parley over Spacerock rather more interesting.

    How so? We know the prediction has been fulfilled already if that was the case. There was no prediction hanging over their heads then, and it changes nothing about the past...

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:37 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    Poor Wanda. :(

    The need for Gillian... it may be that they know that Wanda is destined to spend some time with Gill, but are unsure about the meaning of the 'next stage of her journey' part. Or that Olive is trying to spin that as time spent in the Garden.

    Ambug666 wrote:
    Heroine, eh? I suspect the way she will get off it is by Method One, or by some Cold Turkey or something.

    In any case, if Haffaton really really really needs a competent warlord and one was dropped in their lap, it might be why they need Jillian to turn. No predictamancy is needed.

    Wanda's crown may help her there.

    It could be that they're having trouble popping Warlords, or Units in general, we haven't seen anything that screams 'freshly popped' in their Cities. But Wanda does have a destiny. Olive knows it. And a note relating to that destiny was left, by Delphie 'Bane of Goodminton' Temple, in a City that was subsequently conquered by Haffaton.


    True, this could actually be why haffaton left goodminton the way it was after they conquered it; Olive may have found the note while searching through the tower and thus decided to leave everything as it was to help make sure "Gillian" would find the note as predicted. This may even be why Olive was able to meet Jillian just after leaving goodminton... after Jillian fled, she knew she was destined to wind up in goodminton sooner or later and thus waited there for her. All in all, for haffaton's sake, Olive is trying to make delphie's prediction work in haffaton's favor so that it doesn't work against them...

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:21 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    WaterMonkey314 wrote:
    I'm inclined to speculate on whether Haffaton has ended up with a Goodminton-like "Jillian will be Wanda's CW" prediction: given how important Wanda's uncroaked seem to be for Haffaton's expansion, they may feel that they can't afford to lose her - and thus must get Jillian.

    Incidentally, if this were true, it'd make Wanda and Jillian's parley over Spacerock rather more interesting.

    How so? We know the prediction has been fulfilled already if that was the case. There was no prediction hanging over their heads then, and it changes nothing about the past...


    Say, if Wanda hinted at something but never fully explained it to Jillian, the latter might have incorrect assumptions about her influence on Wanda.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:27 pm 
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    splintermute wrote:
    Orzel wrote:
    With Erfworld favoring popping casters when you are low on casters, 23 caster types, casters castin' off their discipline, and casters purchasable after side fall through the MK; there are probably a few sides operating on Predictamancy.


    I think it was mentioned that mercenary predictamancers who live in the MK after their sides fell are rarely rehired - letting your side fall is seen as a major strike against you.


    Even so, with almost every side we've saw with at least 3 casters, there is a good chance of a sided Predictamancer and a sided Non-Predictomancer scroll user walking around when there are more than 10 strong sides.

    Perhaps Olive bought a Prediction or a Predictomancy scroll in the MK from Delphie and got some bad news.

    Which brings up another thing.
    If Olive is trying to turn Jillian but can barely afford her army, how can she pay for Jillian's upkeep after she turns? Either she is planning to get Jillian killed shortly after turning or the part of the Haffaton army with an upkeep is not at the "cap".

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