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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:23 am 
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Radagast wrote:
That's not really all that many Jetstone troops is it? It seems Tremmenis gets to keep some of the ground forces as well. If only Wanda hadn't left, this would be very easy for GK I think.
We know from the fall of Goodminton that only the units the the heir's stack live on when a side's ruler is killed. We also know that a stack bonus maxes out at 8. Do we know an upper limit on the size of a stack? Does it make sense for Tram to have more units than the casters, their pegs, the potential new CWL, and two more?
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:27 am 
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    effataigus wrote:
    We know from the fall of Goodminton that only the units the the heir's stack live on when a side's ruler is killed. We also know that a stack bonus maxes out at 8. Do we know an upper limit on the size of a stack? Does it make sense for Tram to have more units than the casters, their pegs, the potential new CWL, and two more?

    Because Trem is the Heir now, the situation is different and there is no danger of any units disbanding. Even if Fakely is destroyed, the side will have a new Ruler and they still have cities, including a capital. The idea is to change the Capital BEFORE Fakely dies, but if they fail in that I assume Jetstone would become the new Capital automatically.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:42 am 
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    I ain't so sure 0beron. Just before Goodminton fell Wanda was made Heir, that was the whole point. Nevertheless, once the capital fell all units not stacked with her vanished in the magic of disbanding. The situation isn't quite identical here though since Goodminton only had Goodminton - no ancilary cities, nor a spare origional Capital Site.

    But if it defaulted by default, I don't see what the rush to the Throne is about other then possibly catching Parson. And Tremm's rather bleak tone seems to suggest to me that he expects a full wipe. That would be all kinds of trouble though, as it would leave us with only him, two casters, and a bounty that has already been paid.

    Perhaps it'd work something like what we were roughly told in Gobwin Knob. It was mentioned back then that if Stanley fell, everyone inside Gobwin Knob would wind up in manacles until croaked or captured at leisure, while all field units disband. In likelyhood, loosing the capital might be similar, putting all of the remaining Jetstone cities into manacles, but not destroyed. Sorta like a mass-fugitive status, as soon as Tremm shows up to reclaim the city, the manacles drop. So getting to Jetstone the City is still important.

    I dunno, Sylvia is really making this hard. Speculation only goes so far, it's just how bleak Tremm looks that has me bugged. At the least I don't feel their column is safe at all.


    effataigus wrote:
    Does it make sense for Tram to have more units than the casters, their pegs, the potential new CWL, and two more?


    It would, since we know stacks can go up to at least to 23 thanks to some out of comic confirmation on something silly. The only reason to keep the stack at just 8 is for multiple stacks for the bonus, or because only units in the Heir's personal stack remain in a Disbanding wipe, but after said wipe their Upkeep is his problem from his purse. Which could be a limiting factor if it comes to that, who knows?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:46 am 
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    Yeah, the fact that only Goodminton remained is the key factor here. If there was even a risk of other units disbanding, Jetstone wouldn't be so confident about this plan and they would be taking different precautions.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:56 pm 
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    noname_hero wrote:
    He's a typical Roman-style officer, and that means no pants.
    He is pretty clearly wearing hose. They even appear to have the radish on the knees. Unless you think that they are just thigh-highs? How would that fit into your Roman-style attire?
    Zain wrote:
    It would, since we know stacks can go up to at least to 23 thanks to some out of comic confirmation on something silly.
    You know, I'd seen the image on that wiki page many times and never noticed it before, but seeing it this time clearly evoked Oh Yeah by Yello. And I updated the Real World references of that wiki page as a result. :lol:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:11 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    noname_hero wrote:
    He's a typical Roman-style officer, and that means no pants.
    He is pretty clearly wearing hose. They even appear to have the radish on the knees. Unless you think that they are just thigh-highs? How would that fit into your Roman-style attire?
    Zain wrote:
    It would, since we know stacks can go up to at least to 23 thanks to some out of comic confirmation on something silly.
    You know, I'd seen the image on that wiki page many times and never noticed it before, but seeing it this time clearly evoked Oh Yeah by Yello. And I updated the Real World references of that wiki page as a result. :lol:

    Those only come up to his knees. You can see where they change colour when he kneels down to receive his crown.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:21 pm 
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    Zain wrote:
    The situation isn't quite identical here though since Goodminton only had Goodminton - no ancilary cities, nor a spare origional Capital Site.


    Good call also ty for the link!

    And 0beron, while I think the conclusion reached is probably correct, I'm not sure I can get behind your reasoning... I think you'll see why when I reduce the argument to its barest bones:

    Question: "Is Tramennis acting rationally?"
    Answer: "Yes, because otherwise he would be acting irrationally." :D

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:27 pm 
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    Eh, while in general I suppose that analysis would be appropriate, here it doesn't make sense. Look at it this way:
    If Fakely being destroyed actually causes the side to 'end' (which is what the start of this discussion suggested, in not so many words), then every single city they have would go neutral and all units outside cities would disband except those stacked with Trem. Do you REALLY think they'd be totally disregarding that if it were a possible outcome?
    Jetstone may be irrational at times, but they're not going to go balls-to-the-wall with a plan that is 90% likely to leave all their cities and troops up for grabs by GK and Hagar.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:34 pm 
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    I'm a bit put off by "Lord Downer", referring to his King as "King". Even in the face of death, I doubt royal protocol in Jetstone would drop that far.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:35 pm 
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    Hmm, I'm going to be disappointed if at least one Jetstone city isn't named Bedrock (as in Fred and Barney).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:43 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Because Trem is the Heir now, the situation is different and there is no danger of any units disbanding. Even if Fakely is destroyed, the side will have a new Ruler and they still have cities, including a capital. The idea is to change the Capital BEFORE Fakely dies, but if they fail in that I assume Jetstone would become the new Capital automatically.

    If that were so, why put such emphasis on getting Fakely to the throne?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:36 pm 
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    Because they want to time the switch very precisely. If they just wait until the city actually falls to GK, then all of their units become Captives, and whatever plan they have in place to kill Parson is no longer possible.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:25 pm 
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    Professionalism - when all is left but the fall, it matters a great deal. (sic)

    There is no way this particular warlord gets Decrypted, his death will be far too noble.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:29 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Because they want to time the switch very precisely. If they just wait until the city actually falls to GK, then all of their units become Captives, and whatever plan they have in place to kill Parson is no longer possible.

    Still doesn't make any sense. Why not just snap Slately's neck when they want to spring the trap? Or have him repeatedly fall of a unipegatur if they can't outright attack him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:56 pm 
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    Very dramatic panel, nice.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:07 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Because they want to time the switch very precisely. If they just wait until the city actually falls to GK, then all of their units become Captives, and whatever plan they have in place to kill Parson is no longer possible.

    Still doesn't make any sense. Why not just snap Slately's neck when they want to spring the trap? Or have him repeatedly fall of a unipegatur if they can't outright attack him.

    Because that would just make Tramennis King, it wouldn't make Jetstone the Capital of Jetstone.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:14 am 
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    Whispri wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Because they want to time the switch very precisely. If they just wait until the city actually falls to GK, then all of their units become Captives, and whatever plan they have in place to kill Parson is no longer possible.

    Still doesn't make any sense. Why not just snap Slately's neck when they want to spring the trap? Or have him repeatedly fall of a unipegatur if they can't outright attack him.

    Because that would just make Tramennis King, it wouldn't make Jetstone the Capital of Jetstone.

    Oh right... herp derp.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:20 am 
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    So then the plan must be something along the lines of "Swap capitols which also swaps portals. Use natural thinkamancy to tell units in new capitol to go to the portal room and kill anything that comes out." Which would be Parson, all by his lonesome as Issac has insisted.

    Seems like Issac, far from placing Parson under his protection, has murdered him. Only, of course, if this is actually the plan and it can be pulled off without a reversal.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:47 am 
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    Isn't the plan to change capitals after Parson goes through the portal? It seems to me that the point of changing it instead of allowing it to fall is to try to make sure Parson never gets the chance to leave before the portal closes, as well as keeping the highest number of combatants in the city. It's possible Charlie has units in the vicinity and there's no reason to turn down extra troops that you don't have to pay for.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 95
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:19 am 
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    Keighvin1 wrote:
    Isn't the plan to change capitals after Parson goes through the portal?


    That's how I read it. Of course it would be infinitely better to have Parson arrive, alone, in the wrong city, so for this not to be the plan, there must be some mechanic related to the portals that makes it unworkable - perhaps when you change capital cities your portal in the MK closes and re-opens somewhere else in Portal Park.

    Ironic now that since Slately wont be able to hold the throne for long, Charlie is going to need to help Parson get his ass through the portal ASAP. If that had been his plan A, Jojo wouldn't have held him up to begin with, and Parson would have (IIRC) been and gone before the GMTA arrived.

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