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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:32 am 
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What I want to know, is how the boop Dame Branch knew where to find Jillian. For a side a large a we've been led to believe Haffaton is, it isn't probable that she just happened to be close enough and have enough move to scout the area out.

So the next probable explanation is that olive has consulted a predictamancer, so does Haffaton have one? Or has Marie been working to ensure the 'easy way' for FAQ?

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:38 am 
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    Hmm, I wonder if Olive's still alive in the 'present.'

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:42 am 
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    Cubbins wrote:
    Hmm, I wonder if Olive's still alive in the 'present.'

    I hope so. Maybe she'll end up working for Parson on team, peace on Erf. She would be a powerful ally to have.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:07 am 
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    Am I the only one to notice that Jillian figured out the 'trick' of dropping not counting as attacking, and that Dame Branch very swiftly both recognized it and abused it for her own good?

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:10 am 
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    Cubbins wrote:
    Hmm, I wonder if Olive's still alive in the 'present.'


    Unlike Lamech, I kinda hope *not*... It would take some pretty special pleading to say where she's been all this time, this legendarily powerful Hippiemancer who ruled what may have been the largest side in Erfworld history... Hiding out in the Magic Kingdom, away from Janis et al?

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:11 am 
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    Level 12? Level 12?? Dear Titans, wasn't Isaac mentioned somewhere to be 20k turns old and only Level 11? Ansom, the most powerful warlord of the coalition, was only level 10? And this woman is a booping 12?


    Oh this is good.


    I simply cannot wait to see how they beat her. I would almost want her to survive all this and show up in the modern times. She may do it yet. That kind of power doesn't seem likely to give up. But it certainly explains how versatile she is, if things like Juice and what kind of spells you can use goes up with Rank (Novice, Adept, Master, ecc) and Level, at Level 12 she should be able to do just about anything within her discipline, maybe quite a few things outside. Putting her near anything with so much as a leaf on it could be considered life threatening at this point.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:21 am 
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    Dammit, Jillian...

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:40 am 
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    So, fun idea, the Hippiemancers came up with this plan for Peace on Erf because of Dame Branches's efforts, but her failure was she lost to a single clever tactic. How to rectify that? Why, all you need is a Perfect Warlord who is also a Hippiemancer, of course.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:40 am 
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    See, since Jillian at the start of The Battle For Gobwin Knob is a headstrong idiot with a reputation for getting herself captured, this is completely in character (and in fact for Jillian to have been shrewd and perceptive would be completely out of character). But still she's such a frustratingly annoying stupid character.

    First of all for telling Olive how she was going to escape (I was expecting something like "Oh, OK then. I cast Protection from Acid" but Olive has more power than that).

    Second of all for basically having it shoved in her face that Predictions occur no matter how she tries to avoid them, and taking from that that she should just ignore them instead of preparing to handle them as best she can. Once again, a hint of intelligence- actually doing the test of seeing whether there was also an ambush in the place she avoided- coupled with a lot of stupid: acting like an ambush warning is useless even though it gives you a chance to prepare before you trigger the ambush.


    Additional: I also had the instant reaction of WHAT ABOUT WANDA'S FLOWER? I suspect Olive really is still alive. I actually wonder if it's possible for her to be Charlie (Charlie almost certainly doesn't have to be in that tower, especially if he wants everyone to believe he is). Whether she is or isn't Charlie, though, a super-powerful character with an interest in clever rule-bending tactics isn't going to get randomly killed off. It would be a waste.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:16 am 
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    effataigus wrote:
    MonteCristo wrote:
    So why should Jillian suspect that a florist could transform a tree into a unit? Hell did any of US guess that during the previous update? Jillian had no idea how the Tree units managed to sneak up on to goodminton, but i did not see anyone here guessing that Olive could transform the surrounding trees into units; and we have META-knowledge on our side.

    Yar, we did:
    last forum wrote:
    Tannenbaums might be hard to sneak in, but a caster to animate the tannenbaums with a foolmancy scroll might be easier.
    I'm pretty sure I wasn't alone in thinking that. Also, now we know that Dame branch is reckless enough to enter a hex before spelling it up, so no foolmancy is required... she could just stroll up to the front gates. Still doesn't explain the air-defenses, but I'm betting that those are explained by the air battle that happened some turns prior to the fall of Goodminton... or the other plausible theories put forward last forum.

    Jillian should have known based upon the definition of florist and the fact that she's now taken multiple garrisons staffed with plant themed units. However, Jillian is kinda dumb, so it should come as no surprise that a young Jillian is a smidge dumber.


    Or, and here's a novel thinking, Haffaton could just hire a few of Charlie's Archons with foolamancy, shockamancy and whole shtick (say 4 for example), who attack Goodmington. While the casters expend tower defenses hitting very few things (because fighting four foolamancy archons is much different than fighting one), a single florist/hippiemancer starts hugging trees unnoticed in the gate hex. Once she has enough to stack with, say 12 for example, she leads an attack on the gate and kills everything inside with very powerful siege units she just made. And the thing is, the expense of hiring archons is all worth it in the end because of savings you get when having uncroaked units.

    And another thing is, we know there are archons in Haffaton's airspace even now. So, how does Olive know where Jillian is exactly? Two possibilities: 1) she is talking with plants and 2) she is talking with archons.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:23 am 
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    Olive is level 12 because she has directly been involved in the capture many of the cities that compose Haffaton.

    This doesn't mean she's clever, or has a wide variety of spells. We don't actually know what a high level caster gains.

    Giving high level casters a lot of new spell types is something of a creative problem, because it means you've got to think of interesting and powerful spells for every type of spellcaster, and then include all the ways that they might be combined with a thinkamancer link, and all the ways they might be used in an unintended fashion.

    It makes more sense to me, to assume that casters just retain one to three basic functions at all levels, their main "juice use," as well as a group of passive abilities that would be based on their personality just as much as the ruleset. After all, this is a real world, not a game, and not a roleplaying session. Every action of an individual, spellcasting included, doesn't have to fall into neat little boxes with strict limitations. Parson is an example of this. He is still low level, and this doesn't negatively affect him at all. It only affects certain types of combat interactions.

    So what should a high level caster gain?
    In my opinion: the customary. A substantial increase in maximum juice, a modest increase in health and combat ability. I don't think anything like 'immunity to lower level spells' or 'increased numerical effect' or 'increased activation range' or 'increased effect range' is applicable at all. These are sweeping concepts that usually become arbitrarily stronger or weaker than intended. All caster uniqueness should be based on the individual caster.


    Getting back to the update, I'm really curious what, if any, connection Janis and Olive have. Janis says she wants to beat war itself. Olive hasn't revealed any motives, other than a kind of insane ambivalence towards the free will of others.


    Last edited by Zeku on Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:33 am 
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    Aww, Jillian. I've always liked you, doll, but today was a heartwrenching head-desking moment.

    I saw it coming from miles away... why didn't you take to air as soon as you knew engagements were banned? CLEARLY there was some trick being played!

    Obviously fate forced her to roll a d1 for intuition.

    OTOH, even frustration is an emotional investment in the story, so if I'm feeling this, it must have been artfully done :)

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:08 am 
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    Hehe. Dropping acid.

    Sonic Screwdriver wrote:
    Am I the only one to notice that Jillian figured out the 'trick' of dropping not counting as attacking, and that Dame Branch very swiftly both recognized it and abused it for her own good?

    Apparently. Good spot!

    I just thought she was dumb not to take off when the florist, unimpressed with her professed plan of escape, started towards the tree she was sitting in.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:36 am 
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    Zeku wrote:
    Olive is level 12 because she has directly been involved in the capture many of the cities that compose Haffaton.

    This doesn't mean she's clever, or has a wide variety of spells. We don't actually know what a high level caster gains.
    Juice, and stronger spells. Wanda mentioned her uncroaked being limited based on her low level, ditto for lack of juice. The tower spells Delphie threw got stronger upon leveling. Unknown if they get access to new spells.



    Quote:
    So what should a high level caster gain?
    In my opinion: the customary. A substantial increase in maximum juice, a modest increase in health and combat ability. I don't think anything like 'immunity to lower level spells' or 'increased numerical effect' or 'increased activation range' or 'increased effect range' is applicable at all. These are sweeping concepts that usually become arbitrarily stronger or weaker than intended. All caster uniqueness should be based on the individual caster.

    I suspect they get better points (hits and such), more juice, and their spells become "stronger". Blast spells hit harder, uncroaked last longer and are better.

    Zain wrote:
    Level 12? Level 12?? Dear Titans, wasn't Isaac mentioned somewhere to be 20k turns old and only Level 11? Ansom, the most powerful warlord of the coalition, was only level 10? And this woman is a booping 12?
    Level isn't everything. Wanda is two levels below Ansom, but she is on par in physical combat. Even more so for casters for casters with their classes. Issac has two master classes, an adept. We don't know what classes all do, (well grant new abilities at least), but if they add juice or spell power Issac might very well trump Branch in juice, versatility, and spell power.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:38 am 
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    timeo danaos et dona ferentes, right?

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:37 am 
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    The battle concept of 'dropping acid bombs' is something that most warlords are aware of, I would think. Even Trammenis mentioned it as a possible attack plan on Jenga Tower. It is why he ordered the enemy dwagons assembled over the garrison but within range of the tower. What Parson employed it they thought it just a futile infantile action. When Parson did was to add on the 'harvesting' gambit and gamble on Wanda's survival.

    Given Wanda's "fate crap" , I wonder what Parson's bracer would answer when asked if Wanda was to survive any battle. Would it just say 100% or just give the odds and then fate would make sure that she had a good roll or some other solution. So far Wanda was incapacitated by falls twice but fate had a healomancy scroll at the ready to pull her from the brink both times.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:02 am 
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    I wonder how many tannenbaums Olive can make per turn.
    If seven gumps are worth of twelve stacks of eight Pikers and eleven stacks of six Stabbers production-wise and tannenbaums are even more powerful than Gumps, then this is potentially a very powerful ability...

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:17 am 
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    Sonic Screwdriver wrote:
    Am I the only one to notice that Jillian figured out the 'trick' of dropping not counting as attacking, and that Dame Branch very swiftly both recognized it and abused it for her own good?



    Don't know about her swift recognition...she had foreshadowing with Wanda's ability to break the vase by knocking it over not counting as an attack during the "chillaxe" at Kiloton. Perhaps she just didn't consider Jillian woould be able to figure out such an escape.

    Also do we actually know Delphine was killed at the fall of Goodminton ? It would make sense for Haffaton to capture ALL the Casters (Delphine and Clay as well as Wanda). Perhaps Delphine is still working to bring Wanda to her fate by trying to toget Jillian back to Wanda even if Jillian chooses "the hard way".


    Last edited by Werebiscuit on Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:24 am 
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    Boy it seems like Jillian has a masochist streak allright, just walking into traps like that. And then spilling out her escape plans. And people say Stanley is the fool of the history.

    Lamech wrote:
    Zain wrote:
    Level 12? Level 12?? Dear Titans, wasn't Isaac mentioned somewhere to be 20k turns old and only Level 11? Ansom, the most powerful warlord of the coalition, was only level 10? And this woman is a booping 12?
    Level isn't everything. Wanda is two levels below Ansom, but she is on par in physical combat. Even more so for casters for casters with their classes. Issac has two master classes, an adept. We don't know what classes all do, (well grant new abilities at least), but if they add juice or spell power Issac might very well trump Branch in juice, versatility, and spell power.


    The time Wanda fighted Ansom she also happened to be ganking him six on one, plus Ansom was wielding the arkentool destined for her.
    When Wanda fought Ossomer she herself was wielding her attuned arkentool while receiving Ansom's chief warlord bonus at full power. You know, the kind of thing that makes puny doombats fight like heavies.

    Anyway, level may not be everything, but is still serious business. Only fitting for the biggest side in Erfworld history to be based on the highest level mancer we've heard off.

    This is, the simple fact she just waltz around in empty territory whitout escorts of any kind shows how damn confident she is.

    Thoke wrote:
    I wonder how many tannenbaums Olive can make per turn.
    If seven gumps are worth of twelve stacks of eight Pikers and eleven stacks of six Stabbers production-wise and tannenbaums are even more powerful than Gumps, then this is potentially a very powerful ability...


    Remember they have crap move tough, so even if she can spam them, moving them from one place to the other isn't easy.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:19 am 
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    One thing I notice, more and more caster can create units:
    - Dirtymancer, can make rock, crap, metal golem. If they have crap, rock or metal. (yes rocks are everywhere, but they still needs the item rocks)
    - Croakmancer, can make uncroak units. If they have croaked body
    - Hippiemancer, can make tree units, tannenbaums and gumps. If they have a forest / trees available
    - Dollamancer, can make a bunch of non-living unit. Scrarecrow, Dolls, Molls etc.. If they have cloth

    We haven't seen too many casters abilities.. but it's starting to see that a lot of them can create units.

    and we know that Olive is a Florist, but she's probably proficient in other casters field abilities like Wanda. i.e. thinkmancy to make people catch falling flowers.

    and levels make them more dangerous. a level 1 caster hoboken is probably very weak.. but a level 12 caster hoboken is probably a dangerous thing.

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