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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:15 pm 
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gameboy1234 wrote:
I wonder if the chief Thinkamancer of Great Minds is under the influence of Charile. That declaration that only Parson could pass through is a little too convenient.

That was a consensus decision. They were probably already close to that decision anyway, and so once driven decisively over the line by Maggie's argument and the proclamations of the predictamancers then was no reason to fiddle about.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:20 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    But what I mean is that their aggression is STILL focused on preventing Parson from passing through the portal. If Wanda turned tail and went the other way, then she's doing what they wanted. No need for aggression against her. Also, this is JUST the carnies who are being vocal. And in my original point I mentioned excluded them from the "Great Minds own the MK" statement.

    And to respond to Whispri, who else but the Carnies have defied the Great Minds? The Predictamancers are opposing them, but they still stopped to talk when the Great Minds said so.

    Who else has opposed them? Every. Caster. We. Have. Seen. Them. Interact. With.

    As for your insistance that the Lady Wanda Firebaugh isn't a target in her own right, I will again point out that reasons to believe she'd be shot in the back if she tried to run include: That Sizemore has been the victim of physical violence just for being a part of the Side she's working with, that Jack openly talked of the risk of Wanda being murdered if she stepped through the portal, the general hostility of the Magick Kingdom towards Gobwin Knob (and that open warfare against them would have been initiated) and of course the mere fact that she's a Croakamancer.

    splexis wrote:
    On reexamining the strip I noticed that the character to the left of Brunhilda in panel 3 has his pupils differentiated from the whites of his eyes.

    As far as I recall, only Parson, Wanda and Jillian have this characteristic in Erfworld: are we witnessing a new major character stepping onto the stage?

    What are the common interpretations of the significance of the whites of character's eyes?

    CAVEAT: Brunhilda herself has whites of eyes, but since these probably result from the way she is being drawn true-to-style of the original comic strip character, perhaps the whites of her eyes do not signify?

    Actually, in Book Zero every Goodminton Unit pictured had eyes like Wanda's. Likewise, some of the people at Faq.

    So it's probably just a trait of appearance that certain Side's happen to have.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:37 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    As mentioned, Oberon was speaking of WW1, not WW2. But funnily enough, a similar point could be made about FDR's Cash-and-Carry bill of 1939, and the later Lend-Lease of March, 1941: while militarily neutral, the US was playing economic favorites among the belligerents, before formally entering the war. A true historian would be better able than me to put all those in perspective; for one, it's not like the US was devoid of Nazi sympathizers at the time, and for two cash-and-carry didn't quite yield the expected effect.

    But those are just trees of the forest which is, 'it's hard to be completely cut off from everyone else, hence it's hard to be uninvolved in a conflict, even if indirectly and without military participation'. Out of that grey mess all sorts of trouble arises; when is 'indirect' participation state policy and becoming a covert act of war?


    Overly simplistic. For instance, Germany was confident that once they began unrestricted submarine warfare the war would be over long before the Americans could mobilize. To me this idea was idiotic on first face, as Germany itself had survived heroic levels of deprivation due to the British blockade. Sinking American convoys would do little more than level the playing field...eventually. In reality that never happened as convoys changed tactics to improve survivability. I suspect this was a bad case of German groupthink and denial about actual conditions on the front. After all, the report "All Quiet on the Western Front" was as much as they were allowed to report for even the most serious military disasters. This is partly where the later conspiracies about backstabbers originated. They believed their own ridiculous war propaganda.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:52 pm 
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    Sieggy wrote:
    Actually, Hitler declared war on the US a few days after the US declared war on Japan, and without Germany's declaration of war, the US would have had no reason to do so. Had Hitler not been such a bonehead, of course, it would have been necessary (and not very difficult) to create a causus belli. This, BTW, was probably the second most monumental mistake Hitler made (the first was in bungling Operation Barbarossa). Hitler had this silly notion that Japan was going to invade India, and then strike west into the Afghan plains while he struck east through the Caucasus and the rotted remnants of the Ottoman holdings, and they'd all have a happy meeting in the oil fields of Persia. Oops.


    It might have happened if they actually bothered to coordinate anything. It was never formally discussed between them. The U-Go offensive on India was planned by a "blockhead" and was a feckless misadventure, ending the Japanese threat from Burma.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:47 am 
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    Actually, I've also wondered about the different eye shapes. Not so much the difference between 'dot-eyes' and 'normal-looking-eyes', but that Parson's eyes match certain other characters almost exactly in shape (most of them with more...developed personalities) while most Erfworlders we've seen have the 'dots'. Is there any significant Signamancy to this? No idea.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:35 am 
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    sheepfly wrote:
    I'm sure you just misread it (same way I did the first time) and thought "that's not right," but Oberon is actually referring to World War I, as in the Great War, and the general analogy is correct.
    *sigh* Thanks for setting the record straight. I'd hate to have Hitler references muddying the waters. But it seems that even now that my reference is being misused. :(

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:40 am 
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    Oberon wrote:
    sheepfly wrote:
    I'm sure you just misread it (same way I did the first time) and thought "that's not right," but Oberon is actually referring to World War I, as in the Great War, and the general analogy is correct.
    *sigh* Thanks for setting the record straight. I'd hate to have Hitler references muddying the waters. But it seems that even now that my reference is being misused. :(


    If I contributed to that, I'm sorry. Your ref. about WW1 is essentially correct and it -was about WW1-. I think that a similar point could be made for the early years of WW2 as well. Namely, that nations drifted from neutrality into war, and there were economic favoritisms even without formal war declarations.

    Anyways ...

    Vreejack wrote:
    Overly simplistic. For instance, Germany was confident that once they began unrestricted submarine warfare the war would be over long before the Americans could mobilize. {But} Germany itself had survived heroic levels of deprivation due to the British blockade. Sinking American convoys would do little more than level the playing field...eventually. In reality that never happened as convoys changed tactics to improve survivability. I suspect this was a bad case of German groupthink and denial about actual conditions on the front. After all, the report "All Quiet on the Western Front" was as much as they were allowed to report for even the most serious military disasters. This is partly where the later conspiracies about backstabbers originated. They believed their own ridiculous war propaganda.


    For one I'm not sure which submarine campaign you speak of. Some things suggest WW2, another ("later conspiracies about backstabbers") suggest WW1.

    For two, I'm not sure how that's supposed to relate, let alone refute, what I mentioned about the existence of acts passed by the FDR administration, before the US formally entered the war, to bring more aid to one part of the conflict as opposed to the other.

    Smoker wrote:
    Some of the complaints of the massive delay in the MK make it sound like thats the ONLY thing that's happened in this comic lately...

    and like, yeah... it isn't..


    That's true. We also have the story of the awesomest King of Erfworld ever. Too bad his reign was short (hah.hah.hah).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:43 am 
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:01 pm 
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    Apparently it's my Fate to be late to the party on posts these days, but I think there's more to Isaac's statement than we saw. We cut away from the thinkagram for 5 panels before he made his announcement. I get the feeling that there's something like an Unspoken Plan Guarantee going on here.

    And actually, I think that Maggie's actually got a pretty good point. Isaac's not an idiot, and even if he was, the rest of the Thinkamancers are there to remind him of that. So either Maggie's point is quite compelling (which I believe), or there's something else going on. When Parson said he didn't have a plan, Isaac's response was to upgrade his No to a Boop No. I get the feeling that someone played the "Perfect Warlord" card, or did something along the lines of Parson's "plans go wrong" speech.

    Honestly, Parson needs to be there because he doesn't know what's going on, and he thinks best on his feet. It's entirely possible that Parson could get over there and come up with something. He's got a few resources to work with. If Parson can't think of something nasty to do with Sylvia's pile of Reds (that's better than Sylvia's 'burn it to the ground' idea), I'll eat my hat. Despite what people may think, Parson really is That Good. He survived GK. This situation's better than that. But he can only do something if he's there and knows what's going on. Besides, even his two measly points may turn the tables from a strictly mechanical point of view.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:56 am 
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    Housellama wrote:
    Parson needs to be there because he doesn't know what's going on, and he thinks best on his feet.
    It's entirely possible that Parson could get over there and come up with something.

    I too have been wondering why Parson didn't argue something like "Me not having a plan is the result of not having enough information. So I have to go and see for myself."

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:20 pm 
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    sheepfly wrote:
    Having Sizemore in Spacerock would be incredibly useful, but seeing as how he didn't like the plan to begin with, I strongly doubt that he'll go through unless Parson specifically orders him to.

    Sizemore could probably pwn Spacerock at this point, given all of the crap the yellow dropped into the atrium, or even if he could make golems out of the rubble from the tower.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:31 am 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    sheepfly wrote:
    Having Sizemore in Spacerock would be incredibly useful, but seeing as how he didn't like the plan to begin with, I strongly doubt that he'll go through unless Parson specifically orders him to.

    Sizemore could probably pwn Spacerock at this point, given all of the crap the yellow dropped into the atrium, or even if he could make golems out of the rubble from the tower.

    I'm not sure this is such a huge advantage. Sizemore is seldom very far from an theoretically infinite supply of dirt after all. Would be neat to see an acidic battlecrap golem though!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:16 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Thanks! I was looking for a post entitled something like "betting" or "quatloos" or something else suggestive.


    Good idea. Title amended.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:23 am 
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    I'm sorry if I missed it, but did anyone mention that Jojo might withdraw his objection to Parson passing through the portal AFTER they Jetstone changes their capital? I think that might very well be what's about to happen.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:39 am 
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    sdub wrote:
    I'm sorry if I missed it, but did anyone mention that Jojo might withdraw his objection to Parson passing through the portal AFTER they Jetstone changes their capital? I think that might very well be what's about to happen.
    I don't think anyone has mentioned it because Charlie made it clear to Slately that he has to switch capitals AFTER Parson is in the city, meaning that Jojo's objections would have to already be irrelevant.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:21 pm 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    sdub wrote:
    I'm sorry if I missed it, but did anyone mention that Jojo might withdraw his objection to Parson passing through the portal AFTER they Jetstone changes their capital? I think that might very well be what's about to happen.
    I don't think anyone has mentioned it because Charlie made it clear to Slately that he has to switch capitals AFTER Parson is in the city, meaning that Jojo's objections would have to already be irrelevant.


    Good point,

    I totally forgot about that. However, I think that they stand a better chance of snagging or killing Parson if Jetstone changed portals (unless there is some sort of "tell" in the MK)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:14 am 
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    I had a few thoughts about Charlie's plan while I was rereading Erfworld. Charlie hinted he was going to try to kill one Arkentool wielder. I was wondering how he could do that. We know that Charlie has a hand in the disappearance of the Gobwins from Gobwin's Knob. We know that Charlie counseled the Giants to switch to Faq from Jitterati. I just wonder how much can be done "Off turn". Even then, Charlie has the first turn each day.

    So, here's my theory on Charlie's plan. Charlie gets Parson through to Space Rock and then gets the Hobgobwins to rebel. Stanley might die and that would freeze spacerock, leaving Charlie to come in and pick up the remains of GK's forces while they are frozen in Spacerock, and he could possibly getting the hammer from the Hobgobwins.

    I also think that Stanley might do something to throw a spanner into the works.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:38 am 
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    Direcoyote wrote:
    I also think that Stanley might do something to throw a spanner into the works.

    That would be a remarkable feat given that it is not Gobwin Knob's turn, so he can't leave Gobwin Knob, and he is virtually all alone (certainly without casters) in Gobwin Knob and his thinkamancer is out of juice. The only thing I could imagine is if Stanley suddenly discovers a new power of the Arkenhammer (such as telepathically controlling even decrypted dwagons at infinite distance), or if he totally boops it up by disbanding Parson in anger (and thus returning him to Stupid World).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:14 am 
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    wrecan wrote:
    Direcoyote wrote:
    I also think that Stanley might do something to throw a spanner into the works.

    That would be a remarkable feat given that it is not Gobwin Knob's turn, so he can't leave Gobwin Knob, and he is virtually all alone (certainly without casters) in Gobwin Knob and his thinkamancer is out of juice. The only thing I could imagine is if Stanley suddenly discovers a new power of the Arkenhammer (such as telepathically controlling even decrypted dwagons at infinite distance), or if he totally boops it up by disbanding Parson in anger (and thus returning him to Stupid World).

    Or he whacks a crap golem with the hammer and it changes into a feral gobwin. Or a marbit changes into a gobwin when hit by the hammer. That would be cool. Maybe that's how Charlie got rid of all of the gobwins to begin with -- used a changemancer to change them all into marbits.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 94
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:04 am 
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    wrecan wrote:
    Direcoyote wrote:
    I also think that Stanley might do something to throw a spanner into the works.

    That would be a remarkable feat given that it is not Gobwin Knob's turn, so he can't leave Gobwin Knob, and he is virtually all alone (certainly without casters) in Gobwin Knob and his thinkamancer is out of juice. The only thing I could imagine is if Stanley suddenly discovers a new power of the Arkenhammer (such as telepathically controlling even decrypted dwagons at infinite distance), or if he totally boops it up by disbanding Parson in anger (and thus returning him to Stupid World).

    Rulers have natural thinkamancy that lets them pass along simple orders at a distance. Remember, not every side has a thinkamancer. Stanley could issue the order for all units to return home... which would mean Parson and the casters would leave the units trapped in JS to burn.

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