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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Arky wrote:
Just when the last update made me kind of like Jillian for the first time, we're back to "Jillian succeeds through unfathomable luck". Hmph.

Unless this is all building to a revelation that FAQ had a massive Luckamancy spell put on Princess Jillian whe she was popped, and it turns out that all her personal luck has been at the expense of the luck of her sides and allies.


Maybe when she was popped, she had a Carnymancer as a fairy godmother? :D

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     Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:55 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Why would their even be provisions in a city filled with Uncroaked and plants?


    Because they had a functioning provisions-popping building lying around and its upkeep wasn't significant or it was a prereq to a higher city level so it effectively earned money.

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     Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:21 pm 
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    Azukar wrote:
    Interesting... Do we know who the Ruler of Haffaton is, yet? Any clues?

    Do we suspect it might be significant?

    Dun dun duhhhnnn Saline!

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     Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:53 pm 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    Dun dun duhhhnnn Saline!


    Well to be serious, I don't think Saline, but I do wonder if it's going to be significant. I thought Charlie for a while, but he's been mentioned already.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:28 am 
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    Wouldn't the simplest answer for these unattended uncroaked be that when Wanda has to leave her garden, its to attend some battle somewhere, where she uncroaks a bunch of corpses then just sends stacks off to nearby cities for cheap guard duty? So they will decay, and there might be times when cities like Diecast have to manage with just plants, but every now and again a stack or two of uncroaked show up for a while to help fight off the odd feral/barbarian/scout unit that might happen to try its luck.

    If I wasnt using my Croakamancer for a direct assault somewhere, thats what I'd have them doing - if nothing else it would help them to level between major battles.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:29 am 
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    Interesting update.

    One thing I did notice was the line about Haffatons ruler.

    Now...we know its been prophesised that Haffaton would be the agent of Faqs destruction.

    Except we know that (barring a large amount of verbal gymnastics) is false - Gobwin Knob is. And the word "agent" implies a more direct causation. But GK - rather, Stanley - was loosed by Wanda.

    So - maybe....Wanda is Haffaton. As in "I am Haffaton". (As in "I am Sparta"). Could Wanda somehow be seen as part of Haffatons rulership?

    Yes, it seems and probably is absurd. But I've never been happy with the verbal gymnastics you have to go through to make Maries prediction correct. There comes a point whn such gymnastics become meaningless and what we know (working backwards) is

    Stanley destroyed Faq
    Stanley was set in motion by Wanda
    Wanda was a unit of Faq. (Was she? Or maybe a "guest"?)
    Meaninging Wanda had to be captured by Faq somehow.
    Which presumably happens when Haffaton fell, long ago enough that she has time to become "embedded" in the side.
    Which stretches the idea that Haffaton was the agent of Faqs fall quite a bit.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:47 am 
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    Radagast wrote:
    Oberon wrote:
    After [Jillian] tamed [the dwagon], it was a unit of her side, but being tamed by a fugitive it followed the same rules as Jillian as far as move order goes. Once tamed, Jillian was free to use its move to extend her own, just as a dwagon relay does.
    Actually, I think it's fairly clear that this is not the case... the dwagon definitely does not follow the fugitive rules, as it moves *after* the Haffaton infantry have moved to come and collect Jillian. Unless of course, that's just a loophole in the Fugitive rules.
    Hmmm, interesting point. It can't be moving as a (non-fugitive) FAQ unit, because it moved on Haffaton's turn. And if it isn't moving as a fugitive, then it must be a Haffaton unit. But that would make Jillian's capture rather easy: One of the worlords in the stack hunting her would just order it to land, and that'd be it. Or perhaps if a fugitive unit that somehow gets more move can use it even if their 'head start' has been completed and the capturing side is in motion. Or it's an author error.

    Azukar wrote:
    Interesting... Do we know who the Ruler of Haffaton is, yet? Any clues?

    Do we suspect it might be significant?
    It can only be Charlie. He originally ran the large side of Haffaton, but after a surprising defeat decided to take up the life of a hermit/playboy and retreated to his strongest remaining city, swearing never to try to build a territorial empire again.
    Now, where is that sarcasm tag?

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:06 am 
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    Beeskee wrote:
    Another thing I missed, Jillian was able to mount a Dwagon when she had 0 move. I thought it cost a move to mount a unit, ...
    I think I remember that the summer update involving Parson and his attempts at flying seemed to indicate that Parson wouldn't be able to mount a unit with 0 move, but I'm not sure if they meant it would be a problem because the Dwagon had 0 move, or because Parson had 0 move.

    It was no problem for Parson to mount Banana (and ride him while on the ground),
    he just couldn't fly him because Parson counts as a heavy unit.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:41 am 
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    Housellama wrote:
    All of the Uncroaked we have seen have been in the field. I was positing that Uncroaked only decay in the field. I don't think we've ever seen Uncroaked in a city long enough to determine if decay occurs there as well.


    Wanda, Fritz, and King Firebaugh discuss Wanda's uncroaked units decaying, even the knights and warlords they had within their only remaining city.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:20 am 
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    Azukar wrote:
    bladestorm wrote:
    Dun dun duhhhnnn Saline!


    Well to be serious, I don't think Saline, but I do wonder if it's going to be significant. I thought Charlie for a while, but he's been mentioned already.


    I doubt Saline... can't elves and gobwins not be allied to the same side? Or is that just Marbits? He could ally with gobwins later, but... not buying it.


    Oberon wrote:
    Radagast wrote:
    Oberon wrote:
    After [Jillian] tamed [the dwagon], it was a unit of her side, but being tamed by a fugitive it followed the same rules as Jillian as far as move order goes. Once tamed, Jillian was free to use its move to extend her own, just as a dwagon relay does.
    Actually, I think it's fairly clear that this is not the case... the dwagon definitely does not follow the fugitive rules, as it moves *after* the Haffaton infantry have moved to come and collect Jillian. Unless of course, that's just a loophole in the Fugitive rules.
    Hmmm, interesting point. It can't be moving as a (non-fugitive) FAQ unit, because it moved on Haffaton's turn. And if it isn't moving as a fugitive, then it must be a Haffaton unit. But that would make Jillian's capture rather easy: One of the worlords in the stack hunting her would just order it to land, and that'd be it. Or perhaps if a fugitive unit that somehow gets more move can use it even if their 'head start' has been completed and the capturing side is in motion. Or it's an author error.]


    My reading was that the Dwagon didn't move at all (until after Jillian tamed him)... he was in the hex the whole time. Not that this accounts for all suspect observations: the Dwagon would have ended turn as a feral still in need of food (if ferals have upkeep), which seems unlikely. Similarly, if he needed food, why didn't he go after the elves (making plenty of racket)?

    If ferals moved as they pleased irregardless of turn order, then the Dwagon harvest would be dangerous (for at least some of the units involved... scouting archons would be trapped, and Stanely would be vulnerable to any non-dwagon feral fliers twixt here and there, if any).

    Arky wrote:
    Just when the last update made me kind of like Jillian for the first time, we're back to "Jillian succeeds through unfathomable luck". Hmph.
    Eh, it's a step up from succeeding because she's "hot" and a princess. I gather the dwagon didn't care. She showed her usual amount of gratitude, however.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:24 am 
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    RichMan wrote:
    It should cost Unit A at least 1 move to leave a hex while mounted. This would limit the number of remounts to A.M. Otherwise the number of remounts is infinite.


    Assuming there are an infinite number of available mounts within the expanding M.

    There aren't.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:33 am 
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    BanzaiJoe wrote:
    Anybody want to go on a lion hunt? Gonna catch a big one?

    "She rose and took up a familiar cross-country pace across the marsh—squish, squish, thump, squish, crunch, squish, squish. "



    LOVE it!

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:32 pm 
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    I wonder if the rations/upkeep exchangability means Jillian has to eat several times as much as a first level piker of the same size and species.

    Wouldn't make sense to me, to be honest. It'd be more intuitive if food pays for a percentage of upkeep based on unit type. Of course, that'd also be highly exploitable - you'd want to send all your high-upkeep units physical rations while paying for the infantry in shmuckers.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:48 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    Actually, when Wanda became a Barbarian after the fall of Goodminton, she was able to sense the upkeep of the Units with her, all but her Horse being Uncroaked.
    Upkeep can be 0.

    That would involve sensing a 'lack'.

    Oberon wrote:
    It's called a prequel for a reason. That reason isn't to set up an alternate timeline

    Alternate to what? A few stories, that's all. Nevermind the Retconjuration hint dropping, there's just very little to contradict and it's all come from Wanda or people who've come in range of her memory dust.

    vintermann wrote:
    No, I don't think it's a simple order. Try telling your dog to go out in the forest and become wild.

    And even if you could command a unit to go feral/barbarian, you certainly couldn't count on the next unit meeting it being able to tame it. Or attack it. All in all it would be a very pointless thing to do.

    Dogs can be lost. And that's without natural Thinkamancy. See also the Clotheshorses Jetstone received in return for an annoying Warlord.

    A tame animal isn't going to turn into a beserker as soon as it's set loose. I mean, if we were talking about a horse...

    Azukar wrote:
    Interesting... Do we know who the Ruler of Haffaton is, yet? Any clues?

    Do we suspect it might be significant?

    There is one thing about Haffaton's Ruler that is particuarly interesting: No one seems to know the Ruler's title. King/Queen? Overlord? Regent? Insert other? We don't know. Jillian's heard stories of Haffaton's all powerful Croakamancer, yet she still doesn't seem to know. Back in part one, Wanda didn't even know the Ruler's gender, which is really weird considering the amount of contact between the two Sides.

    So yes, I do think there's something going on with Haffaton's Ruler. It really does look like a secret is being kept. But why? What is to be gained by keeping such things secret?

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:58 pm 
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    Raza wrote:
    I wonder if the rations/upkeep exchangability means Jillian has to eat several times as much as a first level piker of the same size and species.

    Wouldn't make sense to me, to be honest. It'd be more intuitive if food pays for a percentage of upkeep based on unit type. Of course, that'd also be highly exploitable - you'd want to send all your high-upkeep units physical rations while paying for the infantry in shmuckers.


    Are you calling Jillian fat? Not nice.

    To give a more serious speculative response... perhaps upkeep of captured and fugitive units is lowered. Consider Ansom's banquet and Stanley's larder... both suggest a lot extra, possibly wasted, food. Compare this to what a prisoner would typically eat.

    Of course, Jillian's skipping a meal other than eating an apple (in book 2's talk with Tram) flies in the face of this argument a little.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:01 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    There is one thing about Haffaton's Ruler that is particuarly interesting: No one seems to know the Ruler's title. King/Queen? Overlord? Regent? Insert other? We don't know. Jillian's heard stories of Haffaton's all powerful Croakamancer, yet she still doesn't seem to know. Back in part one, Wanda didn't even know the Ruler's gender, which is really weird considering the amount of contact between the two Sides.

    So yes, I do think there's something going on with Haffaton's Ruler. It really does look like a secret is being kept. But why? What is to be gained by keeping such things secret?


    I know you guys hate my theories, but let me toss this one out for ya:

    Olive is Haffaton's Ruler. Wanda proves that Heirs can be Casters, and both Jillian and Stanley prove that a Ruler can engage in fights and miss the thrill of it. By not advertising the fact that she's the Ruler, by pretending to be just a Caster in their army, Olive can go out and engage in fights without making herself a high-priority target.

    Is it a bad idea? Sure! But who says Jillian is the only one who can have them? :D

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:04 pm 
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    I've actually suggested that as a possibility No One, so yeah I agree. I don't think Olive was ALWAYS the Ruler, but I think it's very plausible that she has become the Ruler the since Goodminton period.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:05 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    There is one thing about Haffaton's Ruler that is particuarly interesting: No one seems to know the Ruler's title. King/Queen? Overlord? Regent? Insert other? We don't know. Jillian's heard stories of Haffaton's all powerful Croakamancer, yet she still doesn't seem to know. Back in part one, Wanda didn't even know the Ruler's gender, which is really weird considering the amount of contact between the two Sides.

    So yes, I do think there's something going on with Haffaton's Ruler. It really does look like a secret is being kept. But why? What is to be gained by keeping such things secret?


    I know you guys hate my theories, but let me toss this one out for ya:

    Olive is Haffaton's Ruler. Wanda proves that Heirs can be Casters, and both Jillian and Stanley prove that a Ruler can engage in fights and miss the thrill of it. By not advertising the fact that she's the Ruler, by pretending to be just a Caster in their army, Olive can go out and engage in fights without making herself a high-priority target.

    Is it a bad idea? Sure! But who says Jillian is the only one who can have them? :D


    I don't see anything wrong with this theory. Heck, Olive needn't even worry about being in the fray too much with her Chillaxe. The only test of a new Paradigm that this doesn't satisfy is accounting for anomalies/observations. This is to say I don't see any more evidence for it than I do against it... but perhaps others will.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:26 pm 
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    I wonder if one high level warlord and one yellow Dwagon can do much against a poorly-defended capital? Maybe with the aid of a croakamancer...

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:28 pm 
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    Hidden Sanity wrote:
    I wonder if one high level warlord and one yellow Dwagon can do much against a poorly-defended capital? Maybe with the aid of a croakamancer...

    Probably....but it'd be useless if the Ruler isn't there.

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