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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:56 am 
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Could be a Juice thing, too.

Perhaps dozens of casters are harder to "chill" than stacks of infantry, a single caster and a warlord.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:24 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    bladestorm wrote:
    They entered the MK through that portal. The exit could have been changed. The portal pointed to the MK from Spacerock would be the same, but he could jumble the destination from where the portals point to leaving from MK.
    I know Carnymancy is all about cheating, but that just wouldn't make sense. A portal is a portal, and the 2 ends will be linked. You can't treat incoming and outgoing traffic differently.

    Depends upon the mechanics of the portal. If it is a single object that is nothing more than a breach in space, then altering the destination would be a bit trickier. Some portal mechanics are that it is two distinct objects, one at location A and one at location B. Entering the portal at location A conveys objects through the portal at location B. On one-way portals, one object only sends, and the other only receives. On two-way portals, objects are conveyed in either direction of the linked portals. Basically, A sends to be and receives from B. B receives from A and sends to A.

    Simple alteration of the rules of the portals to set up a triadic portal -- A sends to B but receives from C. B receives from A, but sends to C. C receives from B and sends to A.

    For even more hall of mirrors fun, change the exit destination of the portals to another portal in portal park. You think you are about to enter Jetstone, and walk out of the GK portal, back into the tunnel. Turn around and go back through the portal you just walked out of, and you end up coming out of the green portal over to the left of the Spacerock portal. Two people walk through the same portal, and end up emerging from two different portals on opposite ends of Portal Park.

    Then charge 50 Rands a piece to be allowed to exit normally.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:28 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    Chillaxe was specific to the city hex. Also, not sure any of them do need to be able to personally engage.

    Yes it was specific to the city hex...in the sense that it targeted all units there. It was an instantaneous effect just like Avedon, so leaving the area wouldn't nullify the effect. As for personally engaging, I think Wanda is at a disadvantage if she can't personally engage. IIRC, Decryption takes no Juice. So she has crap tons of juice she can use offensively. But you're right about Jack and Parson. It'd be helpful if Parson could, but not essential.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:30 pm 
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    trench8891 wrote:
    Quote:
    Notice that Jeftichew described Parson as a "Mark", implying that he will be paid for getting Parson out of the picture. Something we guessed anyway but confirmation nonetheless.


    I disagree about this being a confirmation. I always imagined "Mark" simply means "target", and in this case doesn't need to imply a payoff.


    You're correct. "Mark" means a target or a rube. It comes from an old Carny practice of actually putting a chalk mark on a patron who looked like they'd be a good target for the hucksters and cons to focus on.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:34 pm 
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    arin wrote:
    And I don't know why the question never occurred to me until now, but can Charlie's Archons go through portals?


    I don't think so. I think they're not actual casters who learn magic, but units with spell-like specials.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:39 pm 
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    DoctorJest wrote:
    arin wrote:
    And I don't know why the question never occurred to me until now, but can Charlie's Archons go through portals?


    I don't think so. I think they're not actual casters who learn magic, but units with spell-like specials.

    Maggie described them as more like primitive casters. I would guess they are like casters, but with lower juice, spell power, and somewhere below novice class. The portal probably zots them though.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:01 pm 
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    I stand by my theory that anyone CAN go through the portals, it's just they get blasted by barbarian casters as soon as they step through. Parson didn't get blasted because no one can see his stats, so the casters there didn't know if he was a caster or not.

    So, yes, archons CAN go through portals, but they'd be recognized and blasted when they did.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:14 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    I stand by my theory that anyone CAN go through the portals, it's just they get blasted by barbarian casters as soon as they step through. Parson didn't get blasted because no one can see his stats, so the casters there didn't know if he was a caster or not.

    So, yes, archons CAN go through portals, but they'd be recognized and blasted when they did.

    If this was the case this would almost certainly be done via trap. Trap detects, and zots anyone going through.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:08 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    As much as I hate to suggest one mancer's powers can trump all others, I am really curious why the Grand Abbie isn't busting out a Chillaxe or equivalently powerful calming magic. Everyone in this scene is a jittery loose cannon.


    Because it's offensive magic and would be breaking neutrality/starting aggressions.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:05 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    No one in particular wrote:
    I stand by my theory that anyone CAN go through the portals, it's just they get blasted by barbarian casters as soon as they step through. Parson didn't get blasted because no one can see his stats, so the casters there didn't know if he was a caster or not.

    So, yes, archons CAN go through portals, but they'd be recognized and blasted when they did.

    If this was the case this would almost certainly be done via trap. Trap detects, and zots anyone going through.


    Have we seen any evidence that traps can determine Friend or Foe? Or that it they can be sophisticated enough to go off at "everything EXCEPT caster"? I think we've only seen them being triggered by hitting something (like a marbit pulling the pin on a rock trap) or by a specific unit type (Sizemore's heavy-only trapdoor, that Parson, a friendly unit, set off).

    Having traps in front of every door seems like a lot of investment of juice and upkeep, contrary to the sense of community the MK tries to cultivate, and basically like living with a minefield for a front lawn. Considering how every time we've seen Portal Park it's been full of casters just strolling around, who are either barbarians or from other Sides, and heavily invested in keeping their private retreat neutral and secret from non-casters...

    Then again, this is all speculation since we've barely seen any traps at all. *shrugs*

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:33 pm 
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    asparagus wrote:
    Infidel wrote:
    bladestorm wrote:
    I don't even count Sylvia's tale. She was incapacitated during those castings, so the only way she'd know what happened to her is from what Jojo told her....so it's probably one big con.

    '
    "Use the magic feather!" sayeth the carneymancers.



    Actually Sylvia mentioned how Queen Bea was upset at all the fuss. So yes Jojo may have fabricated some of thee story and his motives but it can't all be made up.


    The magic feather was real too.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:04 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    No one in particular wrote:
    I stand by my theory that anyone CAN go through the portals, it's just they get blasted by barbarian casters as soon as they step through. Parson didn't get blasted because no one can see his stats, so the casters there didn't know if he was a caster or not.

    So, yes, archons CAN go through portals, but they'd be recognized and blasted when they did.

    If this was the case this would almost certainly be done via trap. Trap detects, and zots anyone going through.


    Have we seen any evidence that traps can determine Friend or Foe? Or that it they can be sophisticated enough to go off at "everything EXCEPT caster"? I think we've only seen them being triggered by hitting something (like a marbit pulling the pin on a rock trap) or by a specific unit type (Sizemore's heavy-only trapdoor, that Parson, a friendly unit, set off).

    Having traps in front of every door seems like a lot of investment of juice and upkeep, contrary to the sense of community the MK tries to cultivate, and basically like living with a minefield for a front lawn. Considering how every time we've seen Portal Park it's been full of casters just strolling around, who are either barbarians or from other Sides, and heavily invested in keeping their private retreat neutral and secret from non-casters...

    Then again, this is all speculation since we've barely seen any traps at all. *shrugs*
    We know towers can fire automagically at only enemy. I'm sure some lookamancy, signamancy, shockamancy combination could pull it off. Although I still think its a lot more reasonable if the portals just disband non-casters.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:06 pm 
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    Wanda looks very young and scared, I don't recall seeing her afraid before this scene. She's not compltely inactive though, she has moved forwards compared to the last time she was visible.

    Morni wrote:
    or everything to gain by executing the "all in" bluff.

    if fatemancers engage, they know they will die. if fatemancers out bluff them, they know they will win.

    so being vocal about it, makes the bluff more beleivable.

    Isaac isn't within earshot, so... Also, they're probably whispering.

    effataigus wrote:
    Aye, I realized it, but I dismissed the possibility that they were lying since predictamancers have only lied by omission throughout the series (as far as I can recall), since lying about predictions would greatly undermine their craft. Skepticism is valid, I just didn't feel it.

    ... Among the problems with your suggestion that Predictamancers are all Truthsayers, is the rather fundamental one that it is easily proven false by the first few pages of Book Zero. Delphie lied to her Overlord and claimed that Wanda would pop as a Warlord. And as a boy.

    wrecan wrote:
    I'm also curious as to why the other Carnymancers seem to be supporting Charlie. Jojo? Sure. He's getting vengeance against the guy responsible for croaking Queen Bea and croaking and then decrypting Sylvia (which I imagine he thinks is worse than death). But what about the others? Why would they want perpetual war? What do they care if Parson lives, croaks, or returns to Stupidworld? What's their motivation? Do they simply naturally despise Predictamancers and are willing to oppose anything the Predictamancers want, if only on principle?

    Actually, looking back to the first LIAB text update, it seems Sizemore was having some problems with angry Stagemancers. The theoretical consensus with regards to the Decryption thing being the idea that Wanda's muscling in on their magical turf (i.e. using all three of those magical elements). So they may have it in for Gobwin Knob, just for that.

    With that in mind, it seems quite likely that Jeftichew's new plan is aimed either at Gobwin Knob's Casters as they retreat to the Capital or at causing mischief for potential allies Gobwin Knob may find in this place.

    0beron wrote:
    Yes it was specific to the city hex...in the sense that it targeted all units there. It was an instantaneous effect just like Avedon, so leaving the area wouldn't nullify the effect. As for personally engaging, I think Wanda is at a disadvantage if she can't personally engage. IIRC, Decryption takes no Juice. So she has crap tons of juice she can use offensively. But you're right about Jack and Parson. It'd be helpful if Parson could, but not essential.

    If it targeted Units in the City as opposed to the City itself, Haffaton could have just had a force of soldiers from outside the City (say for example, the band that ambushed the Siege group) walk in and take Wanda - and Croak all the others.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:53 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    No one in particular wrote:
    Blah blah blah.
    We know towers can fire automagically at only enemy. I'm sure some lookamancy, signamancy, shockamancy combination could pull it off. Although I still think its a lot more reasonable if the portals just disband non-casters.


    Do we? From what I recall, every time we've seen a tower attack, it's been set off and directed by a caster, into skies of only enemies. Wanda at the archons, the shockamancer in Carpool, Cubbins in Spacerock...

    When have we ever seen the tower pick and choose, undirected?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:25 am 
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    Jorgath wrote:
    Here's a thought: IF Jeftichew can change the portals (and that thing he's holding looks like a scroll - two-caster link w/ Charlie?) then he could be going to send Parson to Charlie...for the purposes of using extensive Turnamancy on him. Which would set up Book 3 nicely.
    Unless Jefti can counter a predictamancer prediction, Parson is going through the Jetstone portal. Now, you might argue that where he ends up is problematic. That may be so. But he is going though the portal.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:49 am 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    No one in particular wrote:
    Blah blah blah.
    We know towers can fire automagically at only enemy. I'm sure some lookamancy, signamancy, shockamancy combination could pull it off. Although I still think its a lot more reasonable if the portals just disband non-casters.

    Do we? From what I recall, every time we've seen a tower attack, it's been set off and directed by a caster, into skies of only enemies. Wanda at the archons, the shockamancer in Carpool, Cubbins in Spacerock...

    When have we ever seen the tower pick and choose, undirected?

    During Faq's attack on... Pogrock I think the City was called, the one Jillian and her cronies hit after she enslaved Ansom.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:00 am 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    We know towers can fire automagically at only enemy. I'm sure some lookamancy, signamancy, shockamancy combination could pull it off. Although I still think its a lot more reasonable if the portals just disband non-casters.

    Do we? From what I recall, every time we've seen a tower attack, it's been set off and directed by a caster, into skies of only enemies. Wanda at the archons, the shockamancer in Carpool, Cubbins in Spacerock...

    When have we ever seen the tower pick and choose, undirected?

    After Caesar attacked Chocula, he noted that even without a Caster present, the Tower defenses would have been devastating in they had entered the Airspace: "Their Shockmancer was here, a couple turns back. Gone now. He spelled up that tower hard, Bunny. This was a straight up ambush. We woulda dropped like hot rocks if we'd gone in topside. Man, I woulda liked to-a caught that Shockmancer here. But if he was here, I prolly wouldn't be talkin' to ya."

    Granted, we don't know if Carpool also had to avoid entering Chocula's Airspace to avoid triggering their own spells.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:08 am 
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    Important bits:

    Marie is willing to give her life, and to command the other predictamancers to give theirs, to ensure that Parson makes it through the Jetstone portal.

    Both Parson and Maggie are emphatic about getting Parson through the Jetstone portal, regardless of Parson's... lack of a plan...

    Discuss.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:30 am 
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    Not a huge deal, but I think there's a minor art error in panel 9. In panel 5 the blonde Weird Sister is between the silver-haired one and the predictamancer holding Puxatawny Phil, but in panel 9 she seems to have disappeared.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 90
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:53 am 
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    Whispri wrote:
    During Faq's attack on... Pogrock I think the City was called, the one Jillian and her cronies hit after she enslaved Ansom.


    Right, right, Progrock. I forgot about them.

    Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
    After Caesar attacked Chocula, he noted that even without a Caster present, the Tower defenses would have been devastating in they had entered the Airspace: "Their Shockmancer was here, a couple turns back. Gone now. He spelled up that tower hard, Bunny. This was a straight up ambush. We woulda dropped like hot rocks if we'd gone in topside. Man, I woulda liked to-a caught that Shockmancer here. But if he was here, I prolly wouldn't be talkin' to ya."

    Granted, we don't know if Carpool also had to avoid entering Chocula's Airspace to avoid triggering their own spells.


    I misremembered that part, thought the shockmancer had ducked out during the fight, rather than a couple turns before.

    Okay, so tower defenses can be triggered by proximity of enemy units, without direction or physical triggers.

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