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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:36 am 
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I think the revelation that Jillian was taught etiquette by her father. That only happens to princesses.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:41 am 
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    mortissimus wrote:
    My guess is that popped Commanders in the Capital are Children (the known examples fit this) and thus Royal if the ruler is Royal, and that Commanders popped in other cities are not Children and thus Noble if the ruler is Royal or Noble.

    I like this speculation and suspect it will be proven correct.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:56 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    vintermann wrote:
    - Private Idaho, urban dictionary explains it's an expression related to a 1980 dance song of some sort.

    The Dune series written by Frank Herbert features a supporting character named Duncan Idaho, who is killed during a war and later "regrown" using genetic technology and implanted with hypnotic triggers to turn him into an enemy against the noble house he formerly served. Seems like a fair analogy to uncroaking (and foreshadowing to Decryption).


    I think it's a reference to the Keanu Reeves movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102494/

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:58 am 
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    splintermute wrote:
    I think it's a reference to the Keanu Reeves movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102494/

    And since when has Rob limited himself to referencing ONLY one thing at a time? It could be both lol.

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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:39 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    splintermute wrote:
    I think it's a reference to the Keanu Reeves movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102494/

    And since when has Rob limited himself to referencing ONLY one thing at a time? It could be both lol.

    A lot of times, there is a three way reference. Layer the pop cult on thick.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:44 pm 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    splintermute wrote:
    I think it's a reference to the Keanu Reeves movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102494/

    And since when has Rob limited himself to referencing ONLY one thing at a time? It could be both lol.

    A lot of times, there is a three way reference. Layer the pop cult on thick.

    It could be a Dune reference, but I don't think Duncan Idaho was referred to as a Private. It's just as likely to be a military potato reference, foreshadowing Parson's arrival.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:42 pm 
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    I've read most of the recent Texts, and I'm not seeing anything obvious. I do notice some specific facts:

    1) Bart popped as a Viscount, and Wanda observed this Level 1 being called such.

    Back in Diecast, during the morning after. This strongly suggests FAQ is a Royal side. I know that it is a popular opinion that non-Royal sides can pop nobles, but there is no text that suggests this. Wanda has no title. She is called "Lady", but never Countess, Baroness, etc., and we now know through Marika that noble females do have titles, and are not simply "Lady". While non-Royal sides could gain noble Units by Turning or contract, a Level 1 Warlord wouldn't be powerful enough for such a deal or bother, so the chance FAQ gained him by means other than popping are low.

    2) Jillian protests that she has been titled Princess and never stated FAQ was Royal.

    What she fails to mention is that she never mentioned Marika was a Countess or noble. The previous text is anecdotal, rather than quoted, so we do not get the specifics of exactly what Jillian said in her description of Marika. It is speculation that she mentioned her as Countess, but I think it's not a huge reach to conclude that Jillian simply failed to mention to us that she stated it. Since "Countess" is the first word on the gravestone, I'd think she would react to that first, and all the rest later, if she had not mentioned Marika's title.

    3) The timing of Marika vs. Jillian's popping.

    Jillian stopped being called Princess 200 turns before capture. Jillian popped a over 700 Turns before Warchalking, but since the resolution is in the 100's, less than 800. We do not know the passage of time from fall of Haffaton to Warchalking, so we can't plant it firmly. I am resistant to the idea it was measured in 10's of Turns, and ore inclined towards a few hundred. With Marika 440 Turns old at death, we only have 500-600 left to work with, so that strongly suggests Marika popped before Jillian. Marika as Countess promotes the idea that her Ruler is Royal, based on Nobility on popping only for Royal Sides, and that suggests Jillian is Noble or Royal, since she popped second and does not mention a Rulership change. FAQ would need to lose its King and replace with a non-Royal to pop Jillian as a normal Warlord.

    Jillian catching and passing Marika in levels also suggests a faster leveling rate, further suggesting Royal status.

    The title "Princess" is the only title that an Heir would fear in the field, if her status is to be a concern. Other "Noble" titles would not strongly indicate Heir status, and the higher ransom such a capture would reflect. Countess no more suggests Heir status than "Nosepicker" does.

    4) Hedda and Chip are missing

    Bart is uncroaked, but Jillian does not note any other named FAQ soldiers. Remarkably, she does not think at all about the possibility of any other FAQ soldiers being tortured more normally in a dungeon to Turn them. Seeing her Princess title should jump to the conclusion that they were tortured and broke, if she was unaware of their Fate.
    __

    I think the only ways Wanda could get to the conclusion Jillian is Royal accurately are:
    1) Haffaton tortured and broke Hedda or Chip (using more normal methods)
    2) Nobles can only pop for Royals
    3) Wanda has been talking in her delusions

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:07 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    I know that it is a popular opinion that non-Royal sides can pop nobles, but there is no text that suggests this.


    That is true. I just figure that if a Duke (as heir designate) becomes ruler, his Children will be little Dukelings, in keeping with Kings and Queens getting Princes and Princesses and Overlords getting Lords and Ladys.

    But so far no side has been showed that was not ruled by a Royal or a commoner so I guess we can only wait and see.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:16 pm 
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    Have we any evidence for or against a non-Royal CWL having a noble as a warlord? In Episode 38, Jillian addresses Bart as Viscount, then goes on to remind him that she is his CWL. She may have revealed quite a bit in her pillow talk. She also stated that Faq had nothing like the bed that she was in while Wanda was watching, so Jillian would have to know from experience the levels of luxury found in Faq.

    Maybe it was the lack of information that lead Wanda to assume that Jillian was a Royal. All of the questions she refused to answer, as opposed to the casual answers she gave for questions that were deemed as not giving away any sensitive information. The intentionally misleading statements that may not have fit in with how she had let other information slip. Jillian is also concerned that information about Bart could be a threat to her side. She's putting in a lot of effort to protect something, especially since it isn't what she is being questioned about.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:13 pm 
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    derfy wrote:
    Yeah, but that's a 1991 movie. The B-52's song is the ur reference.

    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    So, anyone mind explaining me how subordinate units starting to refuse orders and mess up their combat formations out of personal envy and lover's quarrels doesn't qualify for "auto-disband if you try to go against your side"?
    Plot?

    0beron wrote:
    Same way Transylvito vampires fly, they just float.
    We all float down here.

    Beeskee wrote:
    I think we are seeing more of the side of Wanda that Jillian fell in love with, rather than the "kinky insane torturer" Wanda. :D
    Nah. Wanda is Wanda, and it is the entire Wanda that Jillian falls in love with. I've known some dom/sub pairs, and it's not all harshness and "kinky insane torturer" 24x7. I'm not sure many people could find love in such a situation.

    Tesslyn wrote:
    Though it ties with Sun Tzu supposedly telling a King/Emperor that he would -not- halt an execution (of his concubines no less) because it was up to a 'general' to decide 'military' strategy once the Ruler had given the initial orders.
    Hmmmm, close. Sun Tzu was challenged (don't recall if it was by the Emperor or by a jealous general or something. Perhaps it was in response to a boast Sun Tzu made) to teach the concubines in military formations. They lined up, and Sun Tzu gave them orders, and they fell into a fit of giggling. So he said something like "When the general gives an order, and it is not understood, it is the responsibility of the general." And he repeated the orders, upon which the concubines fell into another fit of giggling. Then Sun Tzu said "When the general gives an order, and it is not understood, it is the responsibility of the general. But if the general explains the order, and it is still not understood and followed, it is the responsibility of the troops." And then he ordered the execution.

    The emperor begged him not to kill all his favorite concubines. I don't remember if Sun Tzu relented or not. But it's an easy lookup, and an interesting story, as are most about Sun Tzu.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:28 pm 
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    Anyone else noticed that the art in this update changed after it was posted? The uncroaked are more decomposed now (reflects the changes mentioned in the text). Compare with the smaller image attached to the update link on the FB page: http://www.facebook.com/Erfworld.

    Pretty cool.

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    Yeah..

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:16 am 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    Have we any evidence for or against a non-Royal CWL having a noble as a warlord?


    We do. In book one we have the GK uncroaked warlords lined up. One of whom is Archduke Ferdinand, an über-high noble title. So presumably popped during King Saline. The rest are Lord, Lady, Sir and Ensign, so going by Lord/Lady being not-Nobles in Erfworld I would say Ferdinand is the only Noble there.

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:08 am 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Sun Tzu was challenged (don't recall if it was by the Emperor or by a jealous general or something. Perhaps it was in response to a boast Sun Tzu made) to teach the concubines in military formations. They lined up, and Sun Tzu gave them orders, and they fell into a fit of giggling. So he said something like "When the general gives an order, and it is not understood, it is the responsibility of the general." And he repeated the orders, upon which the concubines fell into another fit of giggling. Then Sun Tzu said "When the general gives an order, and it is not understood, it is the responsibility of the general. But if the general explains the order, and it is still not understood and followed, it is the responsibility of the troops." And then he ordered the execution.


    That is not quite how I remember that story going.

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:53 pm 
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    Quote:
    One of the more well-known stories about Sun Tzu, taken from Shiji, illustrates Sun Tzu's temperament as follows: Before hiring Sun Tzu, the King of Wu tested Sun Tzu's skills by commanding him to train a harem of 180 concubines into soldiers. Sun Tzu divided them into two companies, appointing the two concubines most favored by the king as the company commanders. When Sun Tzu first ordered the concubines to face right, they giggled. In response, Sun Tzu said that the general, in this case himself, was responsible for ensuring that soldiers understood the commands given to them. Then, he reiterated the command, and again the concubines giggled. Sun Tzu then ordered the execution of the king's two favored concubines, to the king's protests. He explained that if the general's soldiers understood their commands but did not obey, it was the fault of the officers. Sun Tzu also said that, once a general was appointed, it was his duty to carry out his mission, even if the king protested. After both concubines were killed, new officers were chosen to replace them. Afterwards, both companies performed their maneuvers flawlessly.[6]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:47 pm 
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    Because no Garden post would be complete without it, here's Housellama with the weekly torture report.

    Once again, Wanda proves to be a freaking genius when it comes to interrogation of unwilling subjects. Human contact is down near the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The need to feel connected to other people makes isolation a hugely effective persuasion technique. Isolation is part and parcel of sense dep. Why did Wanda choose that night to eat out in the open with Jillian rather than all the other nights? Because Jillian had just been released from three days of complete isolation. Having someone, even the person who was the cause of all of her suffering, to talk to made the temptation TO talk virtually irresistible. And as Wanda so aptly demonstrated, just about anything a prisoner says in that kind of situation can be useful.

    Wanda also understands that sometimes you have to give to receive. She offered Jillian a perceived opening, and Jillian took it. Once Wanda got her talking, all she had to do was wait for Jillian to make a mistake. Sure enough she did. And while Jillian may have thought that revealing something personal would be better than revealing something of the kingdom, she was sadly mistaken. As Wanda demonstrated, what Jillian gave her wasn't a story, but a weapon. One that Wanda wasted no time in wielding. Better yet, she did so in a way that didn't break the tenuous link between the two of them.

    I predict that Jillian won't be able to hold out much longer. This was the beginning of the end of her resistance. She may fight it, but I think Wanda broke her with the gravestone.

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     Post Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:37 am 
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    drachefly wrote:
    That is not quite how I remember that story going.
    I'll never claim that my memory is perfect. But the citation mortissimus provided shows that I wasn't terribly off the mark, and I was a bit closer than Tesslyn's recollection of the story.

    It's been a very long time since I've read Sun Tsu. I should probably get around to reading it again. It's short, and a fairly easy read. And it has a lot of wisdom hidden within a very few words.

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    Zeroberon wrote:
    So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.

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     Post Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:26 am 
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    The intensity doesn't match well with the frivolity. Interesting attempt, tho.

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