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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:02 pm 
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New One is up.

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:17 pm 
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    Wanda certainly comes up with some interesting methods. No wonder torture and interrogation is one of her hobbies.

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:28 pm 
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    I wonder whether Jillian's being exceptionally resilient or not. Compared to whatever other warlords Haffaton captured over time.

    That's 18 days of various tortures and an unknown amount of days of deaf/blind. Wonder what's going on in Faq atm.

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:07 pm 
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    I so see some stockholm syndrome in Jillian. Expalins quite a bit.

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:09 pm 
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    Gotta wonder if these are coming from Wanda or from this box. If it is the box, where is it now?

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:23 pm 
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    Swiped this from Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symptoms_of_victimization
    Victimization symptoms were proposed by Frank Ochberg as a distinct subcategory of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). It is not formally recognized in diagnostic systems such as DSM or ICD, and includes the following:
    1.) Shame: Deep embarrassment, often characterized as humiliation or mortification.
    2.) Self-blame: Exaggerated feelings of responsibility for the traumatic event, with guilt and remorse, despite obvious evidence of innocence.
    3. )Subjugation: Feeling belittled, dehumanized, lowered in dominance, and powerless as a direct result of the trauma.
    4.) Morbid hatred: Obsessions of vengeance and preoccupation with hurting or humiliating the perpetrator, with or without outbursts of anger or rage.
    5.) Paradoxical gratitude: Positive feelings toward the victimizer ranging from compassion to romantic love, including attachment but not necessarily identification. The feelings are usually experienced as ironic but profound gratitude for the gift of life from one who has demonstrated the will to kill. (Also known as pathological transference and/or Stockholm syndrome).
    6.) Defilement: Feeling dirty, disgusted, disgusting, tainted, “like spoiled goods,” and in extreme cases, rotten and evil.
    7.) Sexual inhibition: Loss of libido, reduced capacity for intimacy, more frequently associated with sexual assault.
    8.) Resignation: A state of broken will or despair, often associated with repetitive victimization or prolonged exploitation, with markedly diminished interest in past or future.
    9.) Second injury or second wound: Revictimization through participation in the criminal justice, health, mental health, and other systems.
    10.) Socioeconomic status downward drift: Reduction of opportunity or life-style, and increased risk of repeat criminal victimization due to psychological, social, and vocational impairment.

    How many of these has Jillian exhibited so far? Or Wanda for that matter?

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:36 pm 
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    Berserkas wrote:
    I wonder whether Jillian's being exceptionally resilient or not. Compared to whatever other warlords Haffaton captured over time.

    You know, I get the feeling that Wanda's getting some sort of macabre enjoyment from having a subject that doesn't crack under the first few methods...

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:32 am 
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    So will the thing that breaks Jillian be something sexual, I wonder. Wanda certainly isn't running out of ideas.

    Some part of me thinks that the torture box could be made more effective by narrowing it until the occupant can't curl up, so they're forced to lie more or less straight out all the time. The extra restrictions on movement would be pretty horrible.

    ...Then the rest of me looks at the part that just thought that and says, what the hell is a schoolteacher doing thinking of ways to improve a torture chamber?!

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:19 am 
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    Berserkas wrote:
    I wonder whether Jillian's being exceptionally resilient or not. Compared to whatever other warlords Haffaton captured over time.


    Well, she does have more to hide. Typically, a Warlord can probably say everything they know and not risk much. Like, if Ansom started talking right now after being captured by Jillian (in Book 2), what would he say? GK has so-and-so numbers of infantry/heavies/dwagons, Wanda can decrypt things... what else? The details of the attack plan, which have probably changed by now anyway?

    On the other hand Jillian is protecting the very existence of her side, which she expects will fall the second anyone finds out that it exists. So yeah, I bet she's being exceptionally resilient.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:31 am 
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    It's updates like this that make me wonder exactly how much insight rulers have as to the status of individual units of their sides in different situations. 18+ turns later with no word, it should be pretty obvious to Faq that their recon force has been wiped out, but can Banhammer sense what's going on with Jillian since she's been captured? Does this type of torture affect her "hits" stat such that he can sense that she's injured, like Wanda could with Delphie, or does her status as a POW somehow prevent that? Can he tell what her location is, like Stanley could when Parson went back into the MK? Can he even tell if she's still alive?

    While the main reason for these questions is personal curiosity, the true answers(whatever they might be) may also affect Banhammer's actions. For example, if he knows Jillian is still alive, his actions could be vastly different than if he just thinks she and the rest of her group are already croaked.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:26 am 
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    I think this definitively proves Erfworldians have all 5 senses. Maybe that wasn't doubted before, but it isn't now.

    Wow, is Wanda this sociopathic/sadistic at present (Book 2)? Does she just cover it up well?

    bladestorm wrote:
    *Long list of Stuff*


    I'd say probably 1, 2, 3, maybe a bit of 4 for Jillian. Wanda, I'd say her Signamancy implies the same, maybe adding 6 and 8.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:28 am 
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    Avic wrote:
    how much insight rulers have as to the status of individual units of their sides in different situations.
    Well it was explicitly stated that Banhammer would know she has been captured (and that the others had been croaked). Whether he continues to know her status now is unclear. I certainly doubt he knows her location, that would partly defeat the point of capturing a unit. Consequently, I assume he wouldn't know her stats either, but that is just speculation.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:07 am 
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    I'm pretty sure when a unit is captured, the ruler just loses contact with that unit and doesn't know what has happened (death or capture). Which brings up a possibility... maybe Wanda's old caster friends are alive. Maybe Delphi is pulling threads for revenge in a secret sanctuary for Predictamancers in the Magic Kingdom? Too far-fetched I suppose.

    But a different possible resolution of this situation that I've though of (besides Wanda arranging Jillian's release in return for exile in Faq and getting revenge on Haffaton) is that Banhammer himself comes riding in with the cavalry. We know that Jillian's squad didn't have the benefit of the "on the move" looka-predicta-foola-combo which was discussed. If Jillian has any fate attached to her at all, Marie will know she isn't dead - and she will almost certainly push Banhammer to save her at all costs.

    There were more than a few hints in the Faq updates that Banhammer wasn't quite as pacifistic as we had thought - the signamancy of his name also suggests a certain decisiveness.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:12 am 
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    vintermann wrote:
    I'm pretty sure when a unit is captured, the ruler just loses contact with that unit and doesn't know what has happened (death or capture).
    No, as I said above, we know this is not the case. A Ruler knows that their unit has been captured. What information they continue to know AFTER the point of capture is unknown. He may know she is still alive in custody, he may not. But at the point when the Ruler (potentially) loses contact, they know the difference between a capture and a croak.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:11 pm 
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    Very well done, Rob. I almost wish you had stretched the writing further, to torture us with further descriptions of Wanda's regimen. *shudder*

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:27 pm 
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    Figures it would be sensory deprevation that broke her.

    Berserkas wrote:
    I wonder whether Jillian's being exceptionally resilient or not. Compared to whatever other warlords Haffaton captured over time.

    That's 18 days of various tortures and an unknown amount of days of deaf/blind. Wonder what's going on in Faq atm.

    Probably, it's not like Wanda's asking for important information.

    Nothing much I'd guess. Well it's possible they're scrambling to put together a second WRECD, but really, what can they do? Without an heir, they're doomed. The Side may already be gone at that, the stories told of Faq (and yes, the memories relating to them) in Books One and Two could have been fabricated after all.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:36 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    The Side may already be gone at that, the stories told of Faq (and yes, the memories relating to them) in Books One and Two could have been fabricated after all.

    I find that HIGHLY unlikely, if not altogether impossible. While it'd be possible to implant false memories of the actual Fall, fabricating Wanda's (apparently) long time with FAQ would not be feasible. And even if it were, where would her prediction about wielding a 'Tool come from? How could she have contacted Stanley? And there is also the fact that Haffaton clearly falls before FAQ, and by a pretty respectable time period as well.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:53 pm 
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    Or Faq succeeds in beheading the giant Haffaton while Jillian is captive, Jillian captures Wanda while making her escape, and Faq goes back to obscurity while the void of power is being filled by the sides we now know. Such a power vacuum would be a tremendous business boon for Charlescomm.

    Or, Wanda may be going off to Faq while she has Jillian bound in that box. Do we have evidence of Jillian and Wanda being in Faq at the same time? Or how long Wanda was a Faq unit? If Faq fell while Jillian was in the box, she'd have no knowledge that Wanda was even involved, only that it was overtaken by a non-noble warlord with a massive overflight of dwagons.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:51 pm 
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    Wanda will likely play big part in fall of Haff.

    Charlie may play part in fall of Haff, already mentioned how they fear him. Charlie gets rid of rival threat to capture entire world *and* Charlie gets paid by those that dislike Haff.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:43 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    The Side may already be gone at that, the stories told of Faq (and yes, the memories relating to them) in Books One and Two could have been fabricated after all.

    I find that HIGHLY unlikely, if not altogether impossible. While it'd be possible to implant false memories of the actual Fall, fabricating Wanda's (apparently) long time with FAQ would not be feasible. And even if it were, where would her prediction about wielding a 'Tool come from? How could she have contacted Stanley? And there is also the fact that Haffaton clearly falls before FAQ, and by a pretty respectable time period as well.

    You uh, do realise that the number of surviving people from old Faq can be counted on one hand, right? There's almost nothing to fake. As for your questions, the Magick Kingdom and by Thinkagram. As for your theory regarding the timing of Haffaton's end, Jillian is currently Level 7. By the time of TBfGK, she'll be Level 9. And as can be seen here, Artemis hopped from 7 to 8 in less than five hundred Turns despite spending most of that time sitting around doing Boop all. Jillian kills things all the time, so she really should Level far faster than Artemis did. You see where I'm going with this?

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    Last edited by Whispri on Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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