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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:10 am 
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Whispri wrote:
drachefly wrote:
I don't follow. You were claiming it was clear that heirs retain their status upon leaving one side for another. In particular, you were claiming that as evidence. Parson doesn't know what will happen. Either the side ends (not heir of Jetstone any more), or the side converts (still heir of Jetstone).

And whether this heir status is simply detached from a side after changing sides... no clues there yet.

Mm-hmm, I'm claiming those things. Yep again, he doesn't know what would happen. Reason being, a Side being destroyed while their heir is part of the Side destroying them isn't something that happens very often. Which means the result of such a scenario is up in the air.


Okay, now I'm very hesitant to ascribe this to you literally, but when I read this, it comes out as, "We don't know whether the rules are A or B, so they're clearly A." Would you like to try communicating again? Somewhere between your brain and mine (inclusive on both sides), something important got lost.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:51 am 
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    Oh god, my eyes. Screw the Thinkamancer, I need a Foolamancer to veil that :p And a Dirtamancer to bury that Schockamancer formerly known as Chit Rule.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:41 am 
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    drachefly wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    drachefly wrote:
    I don't follow. You were claiming it was clear that heirs retain their status upon leaving one side for another. In particular, you were claiming that as evidence. Parson doesn't know what will happen. Either the side ends (not heir of Jetstone any more), or the side converts (still heir of Jetstone).

    And whether this heir status is simply detached from a side after changing sides... no clues there yet.

    Mm-hmm, I'm claiming those things. Yep again, he doesn't know what would happen. Reason being, a Side being destroyed while their heir is part of the Side destroying them isn't something that happens very often. Which means the result of such a scenario is up in the air.


    Okay, now I'm very hesitant to ascribe this to you literally, but when I read this, it comes out as, "We don't know whether the rules are A or B, so they're clearly A." Would you like to try communicating again? Somewhere between your brain and mine (inclusive on both sides), something important got lost.

    Fine, here we go: A is Ossomer being Jetstone's heir in Wanda's service, B is Ossomer merely being a former Jetstone Warlord in Wanda's service, C is Jetstone being destroyed, D is Jetstone turning to Wanda.

    If Parson thought A or B were true therefore C or D, he would have said unto Wanda 'You might have his heir' because if Ossomer isn't Slately's heir he doesn't have an heir for Wanda to have shift her filing cabinets. Not even Wanda can possess something that doesn't exist.

    He did not say she might have his heir. He spake saying 'You have his heir'. A is thus, therefore C or D. Wanda has Slately's heir, therefore captured/turned heirs retain their status. Thus sayeth the wise Parson.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:00 pm 
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    I'm not convinced, Whispri... I understand your argument, but consider:

    I total my automobile in an accident, and it is sent to the scrapyard. I would still say "the scrapyard has my automobile" even though that automobile can no longer move of its own power (as the name implies it can). I would still think it is appropriate for Parson to say Wanda has Jetstone's heir even if Ossomer cannot again act as an heir (or if Parson didn't know whether Ossomer could)... simply because Ossomer was the heir once upon a time.

    Note I'm not saying anything specific is correct, just that I don't know what the real case is.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:10 pm 
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    I agree, we don't really have any conclusive evidence about what happens to Heirs/Ex-Heirs/Ex-Rulers when they move to another sides. Parson and the 'Tools have done so much to change the game and create previously unheard of loopholes that I doubt even units as old as Wanda and Jillian KNOW what happens with such units in these situations. This is one of those things we could speculate about, but nobody is going to find a page to quote which offers substantial evidence to support any of the possible resolutions.

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    GJC wrote:
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:14 pm 
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    Nnelg wrote:
    I wonder if we won't get to see the Predictamancer's predictions fail here soon...


    Right, given Parson's ability to break the word filter, maybe he is not bound by Fate either.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:34 pm 
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    Whispri, that's reading way too much into a word choice. If he were that picky about words, he wouldn't have said 'their heir', he would have said 'the unit that used to be their heir'.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:29 pm 
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    Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    teratorn wrote:
    My problem with Stanley falling is the Arkenhammer going into Charlie's hands. Even if he somehow manages to send it to Parson (by hat or something like that) we'd need someone else to attune to it.

    Easy. Jillian.

    Image


    OH F...BOOP! it's been a long time since I forgot Jillian's existence, and i was happy like that. but you had to revive that memory in such a way...damn chit...:D

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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    I was hoping we could debate the meaning of "agent" in the the Declaration of Non-Aggression again. It totally hasn't been argued to death already.

    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:55 pm 
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    If Stanley ever decide to pop an heir, this picture will come back to torment us.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:35 pm 
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    Do we have any evidence of spell being able to/not able to be cast through portals. What if a battle starts in the MK and spells start flying through portals. Stanley is standing in front of his at the moment. What if the MK accidentally ends a side (GK) by unintentionally croaking its ruler? I don't think that would happen, but I like exploring directions this could go. I do believe Rob is intentionally separating Stanley from his castors and it will be important later. Back to my first point: there could be a lot of upset sides if spells were suddenly flying out their portals.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:11 pm 
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    Suitesned wrote:
    Do we have any evidence of spell being able to/not able to be cast through portals.


    No positive evidence either way. But it is a pretty hefty zone change, right? If arrows freeze and red dwagon breath stops at hex borders or even city zone borders off turn, then I'd place strong odds on the magic kingdom portal being inviolate.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:34 am 
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    Magentawolf wrote:
    pearl jam wrote:
    I like the fact that muscle guy's tattoo can change expressions. :D


    Oh, damn.. that's his arm.. no wonder that scene wasn't making any sense. From his posture and the direction of his head, he looked like he was carrying around a giant slug like the other caster with a groundhog. >.>

    I thought the same thing. I figured it was some sort of Worms reference I wasn't getting.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:33 am 
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    Saladman wrote:
    Suitesned wrote:
    Do we have any evidence of spell being able to/not able to be cast through portals.


    No positive evidence either way. But it is a pretty hefty zone change, right? If arrows freeze and red dwagon breath stops at hex borders or even city zone borders off turn, then I'd place strong odds on the magic kingdom portal being inviolate.


    I'd have to say that I agree with you. I just want someone outside of GK to violate the Magic Kingdom's unwritten law in some way. I suppose a battle within the MK would be bad enough.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:29 am 
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    Saladman wrote:
    Suitesned wrote:
    Do we have any evidence of spell being able to/not able to be cast through portals.

    No positive evidence either way. But it is a pretty hefty zone change, right? If arrows freeze and red dwagon breath stops at hex borders or even city zone borders off turn, then I'd place strong odds on the magic kingdom portal being inviolate.

    Actually we have evidence to the contrary. Movement to the MK doesn't seem to count as crossing a hex boundary, because it's routinely done off-turn. Of course, this says nothing about whether a spell will cross or not, but the example of Dwagon fire and arrows doesn't help us either.

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    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:10 pm 
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    The cast gets larger...

    A little help, please? I sure could use a Who's Who of Casters, from Thinkamancers to Predictamancers to whoever else simply because figuring out and learning their references is wicked cool. There's Isaac, Morticia Addams and Spock; who are the rest? There's Punxsutawney Phil and Johnny Carson's character and..? Spencer in the form of Jojo/Jeftichew, Dick Tracy, Mr. Mattox's in-comic avatar, though I'm not sure that's Zatanna (she doesn't have curly hair). Goblin Knob's Sizemore, Wanda, Jack and Maggie.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:23 pm 
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    Messenger wrote:
    ...though I'm not sure that's Zatanna (she doesn't have curly hair).


    I've been thinking it was Zatanna since the first long shot we got, but I see what you're saying. The only other thing I can come up with is Frank-N-Furter from Rocky Horror Picture Show, to explain the curly black hair, and the garters rather than full nylon stockings. It can't be Frank-N-Furter straight up (sorry!) since he's a guy without a hat, but it could be a mash-up between him and Zatanna. It wouldn't be the first character mash-up we've seen. (Any better/closer matches, I'd love to hear them!)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:38 pm 
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    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    And even if Charlie somehow knows that (he has no mancers to tell him what's happenning on the MK after all), he can't exactly teleport an archon fleet into GK right now, so plenty of time for Hamster to get back.

    I wouldn't underestimate Charlie. We don't know the full capabilities of the 'Dish, and he's probably left a couple aces in the hole just in case. If Parson gets cut off from returning this turn, Charlie should have all the time he needs. After all, he managed to get an archon fleet to GK in one turn when it wasn't the single greatest active threat to his own security at the time.

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