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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Salem wrote:
Would Stanley who is now flush with resources in his capital appoint an Heir at the moment of his demise?
Is that even necessary?
Aren't caster's spared the death of their side when they're in the MK, like they all are right now at this moment.

In order to avoid a massive loss, yes Stanley would have to appoint an Heir before he fell in combat with Charlie. Casters may be spared by being in the MK, but all of the GK units elsewhere (including the massive army of Decrypted) would disband if the side lacked an Heir. So sure, the core GK leadership would survive...but without an army to take and later defend Spacerock, it might as well be lights out.
Sure it's possible the 'Plier (perhaps combined with Wanda's former-Ruler status) would allow her to keep the Decrypted from disbanding, but I think it's a bit of a stretch.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:05 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    In order to avoid a massive loss, yes Stanley would have to appoint an Heir before he fell in combat with Charlie. Casters may be spared by being in the MK, but all of the GK units elsewhere (including the massive army of Decrypted) would disband if the side lacked an Heir. So sure, the core GK leadership would survive...but without an army to take and later defend Spacerock, it might as well be lights out.
    Sure it's possible the 'Plier (perhaps combined with Wanda's former-Ruler status) would allow her to keep the Decrypted from disbanding, but I think it's a bit of a stretch.


    I more so meant would Stanley as a person do it. Does he care about his side carrying on without him? He does have his whole tool mandate thing going on.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:09 pm 
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    Oh, well in that case, it's hard to say. From a metagame perspective, he would have to, otherwise the comic would be over because Wanda/Parson and company would be helpless and up a creek.
    But it's definitely a valid question. I think at the least he'd want to do whatever he possibly can to prevent an enemy from having the 'Hammer.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:27 pm 
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    I doubt an attack on GK would go well. The caster's can't be locked away from the city (shuffling capitals allows for movement using the MK between 2 capital sites), and I don't see any elves, gobwins or marbits in GK's attacking force meaning they are all still in GK. So Charlie would have to fight through 5 casters, and countless archers. Worse if things go badly for Jetstone they can also ship the corpses through adding the Jetstone archers, Slately, and possibly even more casters or air units. On top of that the Hippiemancers, thinkamancers and predictamancers can be called up to protect their investment in the form of Parson.

    Best case scenario for an attack on GK? Its repelled and the casters aren't forced into an open alliance with Parson. Worst case is GK suddenly has 50 more casters to help bring world peace, fulfill fate, and eliminate Charlie. Oh, and the attack still fails.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:40 pm 
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    I know this is out of order, but Jillian is out of range of the capital.

    it's half a dozen dragon turns away. (yes she probably is a turn closer now)
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -09-23.jpg

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:43 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    I doubt an attack on GK would go well. The caster's can't be locked away from the city (shuffling capitals allows for movement using the MK between 2 capital sites), and I don't see any elves, gobwins or marbits in GK's attacking force meaning they are all still in GK. So Charlie would have to fight through 5 casters, and countless archers. Worse if things go badly for Jetstone they can also ship the corpses through adding the Jetstone archers, Slately, and possibly even more casters or air units. On top of that the Hippiemancers, thinkamancers and predictamancers can be called up to protect their investment in the form of Parson.

    Best case scenario for an attack on GK? Its repelled and the casters aren't forced into an open alliance with Parson. Worst case is GK suddenly has 50 more casters to help bring world peace, fulfill fate, and eliminate Charlie. Oh, and the attack still fails.


    Several problems... first the portals; A side can only have one portal, the one in their designated capital. We found out this when we were told that Parson would be trapped in the magic kingdom if Wanda took the city before he arrived. Meaning if Charlie were to wait until after space rock's fall and if all of GK's best units were in space rock at the time, this would mean they would all be stuck in spacerock. Second, GK does not have marbits, Elves or Gobwins... Elves and Marbits don't join up with sides that choose hobgowbins as a natural ally and GK was unable to get gobwins because for some reason they have not been able to find any gobwin tribes. Hobgowbins are the only natural allies GK has. Third it would take a very long time to carry corpses through the portal since only the casters can pass through... and Forth i think you overestimate how much the casters would be willing to go to protect GK for parson's sake, especially when they know that Parson can survive without GK so long as he stays in the magic kingdom; Hell i might the rest of the MK casters might completely turn on and possibly even croak the casters that would go that far since those casters would be inviting war to magic kingdom (which is exactly what the thinkamancers in particular are trying to prevent)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:54 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    I believe that Charlie combined with Jillian COULD pull out all the stops to take out GK City.


    He doesn't need jillian, air is safe. Stanley likely has a very depleted dwagon force, and without casters GK can't fire the tower weaponry. What he needs are ground troops.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:57 pm 
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    I think the point about elves and marbits is that presumably some of them were decrypted in GK. However, there was a total annihilation of GK's infantry before the yellow dwagons started defiling Spacerock, so any decrypted RC allies may have been lost off-screen.

    I think it's a great come-uppance that Isaac stopped Parson because he was trying to avoid an all-out MK conflict, yet if he hadn't perhaps not enough people would've noticed to get as fired up as things are now.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:00 pm 
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    boegiboe wrote:
    I think it's a great come-uppance that Isaac stopped Parson because he was trying to avoid an all-out MK conflict, yet if he hadn't perhaps not enough people would've noticed to get as fired up as things are now.

    At the time, yes. But AFTER the fact, news would have spread like wild-fire with the same end result from an MK perspective.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:02 pm 
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    You know how the thinkamancers could win right now? "Parson your plan makes absolutely no sense! You have a two for a bonus, why would... wait, that's a suggestion spell on you. I can barely even tell its their, how is that even possible? No thinkamancer could do that, which means: Charlie. My fellow casters, Charlie has attempted to incite war here. This act cannot go unpunished. He spread the idea of using portals to attack, and attempted to do exactly that. This cannot go unpunished. We must seal Charlie's portal and support any efforts to destroy him, otherwise he will croak us all!."

    BAM! All the resources of the MK are now pointed at Charlie.

    MonteCristo wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    I doubt an attack on GK would go well. The caster's can't be locked away from the city (shuffling capitals allows for movement using the MK between 2 capital sites), and I don't see any elves, gobwins or marbits in GK's attacking force meaning they are all still in GK. So Charlie would have to fight through 5 casters, and countless archers. Worse if things go badly for Jetstone they can also ship the corpses through adding the Jetstone archers, Slately, and possibly even more casters or air units. On top of that the Hippiemancers, thinkamancers and predictamancers can be called up to protect their investment in the form of Parson.

    Best case scenario for an attack on GK? Its repelled and the casters aren't forced into an open alliance with Parson. Worst case is GK suddenly has 50 more casters to help bring world peace, fulfill fate, and eliminate Charlie. Oh, and the attack still fails.


    Several problems... first the portals; A side can only have one portal, the one in their designated capital. We found out this when we were told that Parson would be trapped in the magic kingdom if Wanda took the city before he arrived. Meaning if Charlie were to wait until after space rock's fall and if all of GK's best units were in space rock at the time, this would mean they would all be stuck in spacerock. Second, GK does not have marbits, Elves or Gobwins... Elves and Marbits don't join up with sides that choose hobgowbins as a natural ally and GK was unable to get gobwins because for some reason they have not been able to find any gobwin tribes. Hobgowbins are the only natural allies GK has. Third it would take a very long time to carry corpses through the portal since only the casters can pass through... and Forth i think you overestimate how much the casters would be willing to go to protect GK for parson's sake, especially when they know that Parson can survive without GK so long as he stays in the magic kingdom; Hell i might the rest of the MK casters might completely turn on and possibly even croak the casters that would go that far since those casters would be inviting war to magic kingdom (which is exactly what the thinkamancers in particular are trying to prevent)

    Capital shuffle. Move the capital to Spacerock, move in casters and corpses. Probably decrypt a couple to help move the corpses to the GK portal. Switch capital to GK, move everything through the GK portal.

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    Hell i might the rest of the MK casters might completely turn on and possibly even croak the casters that would go that far since those casters would be inviting war to magic kingdom (which is exactly what the thinkamancers in particular are trying to prevent)
    That would end poorly for the anti-GKers. Right now the main force all wants Parson alive. Team-Parson has the advantage, anti-Parson would get wiped and Wanda would have a bunch of decrypted casters. Worst case is Wanda gets enough power to snowball through the MK, and theres a TPK. (This is an especially big risk due to the potential for tri-links if Wanda gets the thinkamancers.)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:09 pm 
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    partywhipple wrote:
    Ok, Parson can just bull rush through into the portal now, right? He's Field Infantry and he's a Heavy. While they can cast on him, maybe, I have my doubts they could actually stop him. I really hope that Jack was lying about being out of juice and can do something at this point.

    [grognard]You know what area denial is, son? Well, I ain't talkin' 'bout Cairo here. Basically it goes like this: you take a machine gun, or other rapid fire weapon, and instead of aiming at the target you shoot at where 'e be wantin' to go, so that only an idiot or a guy with a death wish will try to keep moving. If Parson were to make a run fer that there gate, all 'em casters there would cover the entrance wit' so much firepower, he'd be lucky if he makes it one step before gettin' turned into a frog, or a newt if e's lucky.[/grognard]

    I wonder if we won't get to see the Predictamancer's predictions fail here soon...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:05 pm 
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    Registered to say: Awesome page. Super pretty artwork.

    Also, yay, Maggie! Longtime Maggie fan approves!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:17 pm 
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    Maggie cast a suggestion spell on Stanley. Stanley says "if something fishy, I will disband you just like that." I don't think Maggie is disbanded but anything is possible now. (Including small chance that she is disbanded)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:19 pm 
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    multilis wrote:
    Maggie cast a suggestion spell on Stanley. Stanley says "if something fishy, I will disband you just like that." I don't think Maggie is disbanded but anything is possible now. (Including small chance that she is disbanded)

    Yeah, she's gonna have the spell break and the backlash hit her. There is no possible way that isn't happening.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:24 pm 
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    I actually don't think he spell is going to break and backlash. It basically did what it was supposed to. It made Stanley appoint Pasron Chief Warlord, and then leave him alone to start working, both things Stanley could be inclined to do normally. I think it's more likely the spell was an instant effect and has run it's course, rather than a sustained effect that is being fought against. If there was going to be a backlash, it would have already happened.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:30 pm 
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    Jeftichew no longer has the Hippy flower on his head. I wonder how he got rid of it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:43 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    You know how the thinkamancers could win right now? "Parson your plan makes absolutely no sense! You have a two for a bonus, why would... wait, that's a suggestion spell on you. I can barely even tell its their, how is that even possible? No thinkamancer could do that, which means: Charlie. My fellow casters, Charlie has attempted to incite war here. This act cannot go unpunished. He spread the idea of using portals to attack, and attempted to do exactly that. This cannot go unpunished. We must seal Charlie's portal and support any efforts to destroy him, otherwise he will croak us all!."

    BAM! All the resources of the MK are now pointed at Charlie.

    MonteCristo wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    I doubt an attack on GK would go well. The caster's can't be locked away from the city (shuffling capitals allows for movement using the MK between 2 capital sites), and I don't see any elves, gobwins or marbits in GK's attacking force meaning they are all still in GK. So Charlie would have to fight through 5 casters, and countless archers. Worse if things go badly for Jetstone they can also ship the corpses through adding the Jetstone archers, Slately, and possibly even more casters or air units. On top of that the Hippiemancers, thinkamancers and predictamancers can be called up to protect their investment in the form of Parson.

    Best case scenario for an attack on GK? Its repelled and the casters aren't forced into an open alliance with Parson. Worst case is GK suddenly has 50 more casters to help bring world peace, fulfill fate, and eliminate Charlie. Oh, and the attack still fails.


    Several problems... first the portals; A side can only have one portal, the one in their designated capital. We found out this when we were told that Parson would be trapped in the magic kingdom if Wanda took the city before he arrived. Meaning if Charlie were to wait until after space rock's fall and if all of GK's best units were in space rock at the time, this would mean they would all be stuck in spacerock. Second, GK does not have marbits, Elves or Gobwins... Elves and Marbits don't join up with sides that choose hobgowbins as a natural ally and GK was unable to get gobwins because for some reason they have not been able to find any gobwin tribes. Hobgowbins are the only natural allies GK has. Third it would take a very long time to carry corpses through the portal since only the casters can pass through... and Forth i think you overestimate how much the casters would be willing to go to protect GK for parson's sake, especially when they know that Parson can survive without GK so long as he stays in the magic kingdom; Hell i might the rest of the MK casters might completely turn on and possibly even croak the casters that would go that far since those casters would be inviting war to magic kingdom (which is exactly what the thinkamancers in particular are trying to prevent)

    Capital shuffle. Move the capital to Spacerock, move in casters and corpses. Probably decrypt a couple to help move the corpses to the GK portal. Switch capital to GK, move everything through the GK portal.

    Quote:
    Hell i might the rest of the MK casters might completely turn on and possibly even croak the casters that would go that far since those casters would be inviting war to magic kingdom (which is exactly what the thinkamancers in particular are trying to prevent)
    That would end poorly for the anti-GKers. Right now the main force all wants Parson alive. Team-Parson has the advantage, anti-Parson would get wiped and Wanda would have a bunch of decrypted casters. Worst case is Wanda gets enough power to snowball through the MK, and theres a TPK. (This is an especially big risk due to the potential for tri-links if Wanda gets the thinkamancers.)


    Moving non-casters, even dead ones, is probably not possible. It has never been done. Also when it is mentioned, it says that people going through are disbanded, not croaked.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:09 pm 
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    warriortribble wrote:
    Jeftichew no longer has the Hippy flower on his head. I wonder how he got rid of it.


    The full look of the spell faded quite quickly; the flower may have been the last to go, or he may have simply pulled it off when he thought of it. In itself I don't assume it means he's free of not being able to engage this turn, though separately it is conceivable an unimpaired carnymancer could have freed him. We still don't know what all they can do, except make things disappear, patter that may or may not be magical, maybe "rig the game" if that's not just a conversational turn of phrase.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:16 pm 
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    The missing natural allies of GK are suddenly coming to mind... aren't they tunnelers? I remember an update where the sole remaining member was lying to Parson about something (how many of his tribe survived?). Now that all of the major characters are out of GK and in a ~safe place... cue sappers who drop the tower on top of Stanley. Parson will survive because he is a caster.

    Aftermath is Wanda going rogue and starting her own side (or renewing). Parson is going to rally the MK as one force. Somewhere down the line... Voltron.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 82
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:20 pm 
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    Doesn't Parson have a staff that reduces the effect of magic cast on him? JoJo mentioned it when they were talking. I wonder how much it can protect him against an onslaught of Mancers...

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