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 Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:59 am 
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Swodaems wrote:
You're off by 3 XP in the calculations.

Ok. All players will get rounded up to the next XP then, to get us back on even numbers. From now on, individual XP will be assigned in whole numbers only. I don't like the idea of tracking XP to 3 decimal places... :D

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:09 am 
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    Hey Marbit, can you give Bill a tan?

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:11 am 
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    AP2 Heavy would make me interested all of a sudden. Only question I have, I guess, is can I bodyguard if I'm on a mount? If not, then a no brainer, go go gadget heavy.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:18 am 
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    The Colonel wrote:
    Hey Marbit, can you give Bill a tan?

    All Tenebrisian units are either light grey or dark grey. You can change your wardrobe with Dollamancy (or a Dollamancer's help), but your complexion is determined by your side. So, no.

    Lord of Monies wrote:
    AP2 Heavy would make me interested all of a sudden. Only question I have, I guess, is can I bodyguard if I'm on a mount? If not, then a no brainer, go go gadget heavy.

    Yes, you can bodyguard from a mount (if the mount is adjacent to the unit you are guarding, you are also adjacent), and it's a very effective combo, since the mount will take the damage directed at you, while you only take the damage that you're pulling from the target. If your target is also on a mount, it's even more effective.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:25 am 
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    [ 5 Combat / 3 Defense / 16 Hits / 8 {8} Move. Fire. Special: Croakamancy (Reanimator, Bone Puppeteer, Uncroak, Pall Raiser, Bone Warlord). 47 Juice.] (Ward-8) Scroll: Revitalize, Scroll: Renew, Scroll: Lucky Streak, Scroll: Regenerate, Potion: Restore Juice (Restore 20)

    May you switch bill to Dark Grey?

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    Last edited by The Colonel on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:33 am 
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    Hmmm, k, shall ignore Heavy then and do pretty much everything else. Mount might be extra good for me anyway if it can move faster than I can. Get's me to where I'm needed quicker.

    Brick Wall!
    [5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. 8 {8} Move. Attack. Guard. Interpose. Bodyguard. Beefy]

    My lvl 1 warrior, and his stats have a good future ahead of them. I imagine I'll lvl quickly to start with as well with xp given equally. This is going to be fun.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:42 am 
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    The Colonel wrote:
    [ 5 Combat / 3 Defense / 16 Hits / 8 {8} Move. Fire. Special: Croakamancy (Reanimator, Bone Puppeteer, Uncroak, Pall Raiser, Bone Warlord). 47 Juice.] (Ward-8) Scroll: Revitalize, Scroll: Renew, Scroll: Lucky Streak, Scroll: Regenerate, Potion: Restore Juice (Restore 20)

    May you switch bill to Dark Grey?

    Sure, that I can do. He'll have the same complexion as your ruler, seen on the throne here: (click).

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:02 pm 
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    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    I give you Vinny Starcall!
    A fairly tall man by nature, Vinny's height was made more disturbing by the cold, calculating look in his ice-blue eyes. Add to this the platinum blonde hair and dark tan complexion, and this was a unit that had an other-worldly appearance to him. (Vinny popped as a Barbarian nearby the Capital, and turned Tenedrisian)
    As mentioned above, I have 2 possible builds for Vinny, depending on the current players' choices:

    Leadership Archer (Displayed Here)
    7 Combat / 3 Defense / 10 Hits. 8/8 Move. Fire. 2 AP Unpsent

    Dollamancer (Physical Features same as the Archer above, with different attire)
    3 Combat / 1 Defense / 4 Hits. 8/8 Move. Fire. Special: Dollamancer, 8 Juice.

    Once everyone else has made their choices and I have a feel for what the group is capable of at present, I'll make my decision.

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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:10 pm 
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    Let's not dawdle in this chamber too long. Bill should send an uncroaked thru the portal to check that it truely does lead to the surface and, if it does, then we'll go thru it and journey towards Dis city.

    PS. Just did a census of the units we'll be returning to.
    MarbitChow wrote:
    Darkness Units at the end of the combat :
    Spoiler: show
    Sk-1 Skeleton Archer [ 7 Combat / 3 Defense / 16 Hits. Fire. Special: x2 Def vs. Fire; Calcium Enriched]
    Sk-2 Skeleton Spearman [ 7 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. Fire. Special: x2 Def vs. Fire; Well-armed]
    Sk-3 Skeleton Warrior [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. Fire. Special: x2 Def vs. Fire; Calcium Enriched; Mighty Blow]

    Ram : 4d6 Damage to structures only; ignores Defense; Units wielding Ram can only move 5 squares per turn instead of 8.
    RAM-1 Warrior lvl 2 [ 9 Combat / 11 Defense / 36 Hits. Attack. Special: Heavy, Beefy]
    RAM-2 Warrior lvl 2 [ 9 Combat / 11 Defense / 36 Hits. Attack. Special: Heavy, Beefy]
    RAM-3 Warrior lvl 2 [ 9 Combat / 11 Defense / 36 Hits. Attack. Special: Heavy, Beefy]
    RAM-4 Warrior lvl 2 [ 9 Combat / 11 Defense / 36 Hits. Attack. Special: Heavy, Beefy]
    RAM-5 Warrior lvl 2 [ 9 Combat / 11 Defense / 36 Hits. Attack. Special: Heavy, Beefy]
    RAM-6 Warrior lvl 2 [ 9 Combat / 11 Defense / 36 Hits. Attack. Special: Heavy, Beefy]
    RAM-7 Warrior lvl 2 [ 9 Combat / 11 Defense / 36 Hits. Attack. Special: Heavy, Beefy]
    RAM-8 Warrior lvl 2 [ 9 Combat / 11 Defense / 36 Hits. Attack. Special: Heavy, Beefy]

    DW-1 Dark Warrior [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. Attack. Special: Mighty Blow, Guard, Beefy]
    DW-2 Dark Warrior [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. Attack. Special: Mighty Blow, Guard, Beefy]
    DW-3 Dark Warrior [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. Attack. Special: Mighty Blow, Guard, Beefy]
    DW-4 Dark Warrior [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. Attack. Special: Mighty Blow, Guard, Beefy]
    DW-5 Dark Warrior [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. Attack. Special: Mighty Blow, Guard, Beefy]
    DW-6 Dark Warrior [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. Attack. Special: Mighty Blow, Guard, Beefy]
    DW-7 Dark Warrior [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. Attack. Special: Mighty Blow, Guard, Beefy]
    DW-8 Dark Warrior [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 22 Hits. Attack. Special: Mighty Blow, Guard, Beefy]

    DS-1 Dark Spearman (1xp) [ 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. Strike. Special: Guard, Interpose, Bodyguard]
    DS-2 Dark Spearman [ 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. Strike. Special: Guard, Interpose, Bodyguard]
    DS-3 Dark Spearman [ 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. Strike. Special: Guard, Interpose, Bodyguard]
    DS-4 Dark Spearman (1xp) [ 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. Strike. Special: Guard, Interpose, Bodyguard]
    DS-5 Dark Spearman [ 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. Strike. Special: Guard, Interpose, Bodyguard]
    DS-6 Dark Spearman [ 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. Strike. Special: Guard, Interpose, Bodyguard]
    DS-7 Dark Spearman [ 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. Strike. Special: Guard, Interpose, Bodyguard]
    DS-8 Dark Spearman [ 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. Strike. Special: Guard, Interpose, Bodyguard]

    DF-8 Dark Flier [ 4 Combat / 4 Defense / 8 Hits. Fire. Special: Fly]

    BS 1 - Brickabat Swarm [ 0 Combat / 1 Defense / 8 Hits. No attack. Special: Screen - Brickabat Swarm can negate a single Fire attack against any adjacent target, at the cost of 1 Hit. Cannot be targeted by Fire, Strike, or non-AoE Spells.]
    BS 2 - Brickabat Swarm [ 0 Combat / 1 Defense / 8 Hits. No attack. Special: Screen - Brickabat Swarm can negate a single Fire attack against any adjacent target, at the cost of 1 Hit. Cannot be targeted by Fire, Strike, or non-AoE Spells.]
    BS 3 - Brickabat Swarm [ 0 Combat / 1 Defense / 8 Hits. No attack. Special: Screen - Brickabat Swarm can negate a single Fire attack against any adjacent target, at the cost of 1 Hit. Cannot be targeted by Fire, Strike, or non-AoE Spells.]
    (The skele archer and spearman will have decayed by now and the skele warrior goes next turn.)(The AP costs of Mighty Blow, Guard and Interpose are all dropping to .5 and you're talking about dropping the cost of heavy to 2. Will all the the RAMs, DWs and DS get an AP back?)
    Then we popped 8 imps and 2 archers.
    Then we got more brickbats, popped 2 archers, received 2 more archers, a balrug, and 2 royal guards.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:31 pm 
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    Swodaems wrote:
    The AP costs of Mighty Blow, Guard and Interpose are all dropping to .5 and you're talking about dropping the cost of heavy to 2. Will all the the RAMs, DWs and DS get an AP back?)
    I'll give you one better. Since we're in massive Retcon mode, you can redo the general builds of all current regular forces.

    You've got 8 Level 2 Warriors, 8 Level 1 Warriors, 8 Level 1 Spearmen and 6 archers. Rebuild them to whatever you desire, including mixing and matching.

    I would like your (collective) feedback on the Heavy vs. Mount discussion, though; +1 Def and +2 Hits doesn't seem like a good deal compared to being able to ride a mount.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:45 pm 
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    Remember that the trade-off is that the rider will be relying on the mount to take a bunch of hits for them. Yes, they can pretty much gain the bonuses of heavy through well armed and the like, but if they ignore mount then they could get the same buffs to stats again by taking heavy. Not taking heavy means that they are perhaps vulnerable should their mount fall. It was their shield, after all. Now they have to fend for themselves without the heavy buffs.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:04 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user is a Tool! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary
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    We will need 2 heavies to operate the wall ballistae, and on that note I have no problem exchanging out my +1 ring for the +2.I still feel that increasing my combat is the surest way to take down tough enemies, especially now that I have a multi-target combat spell. This is even more relevant given the upcoming siege

    T. Coil Level Progression:
    1: 3 Combat / 1 Defense / 4 Hits / 8 Juice / 8 {8} Move. Hiya
    2: 6 Combat / 1 Defense / 8 Hits / 16 Juice / 8 {8} Move. Hiya Hoboken
    3: 9 Combat / 1 Defense / 12 Hits / 24 Juice / 8 {8} Move. Hiya, Hoboken, TooGeeWonCee
    4: 10 Combat / 1 Defense / 22 Hits / 32 Juice / 8 {8} Move. Hiya, Hoboken, TooGeeWonCee, Ickypron

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:15 pm 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    Swodaems wrote:
    The AP costs of Mighty Blow, Guard and Interpose are all dropping to .5 and you're talking about dropping the cost of heavy to 2. Will all the the RAMs, DWs and DS get an AP back?)
    I'll give you one better. Since we're in massive Retcon mode, you can redo the general builds of all current regular forces.

    You've got 8 Level 2 Warriors, 8 Level 1 Warriors, 8 Level 1 Spearmen and 6 archers. Rebuild them to whatever you desire, including mixing and matching.

    I would like your (collective) feedback on the Heavy vs. Mount discussion, though; +1 Def and +2 Hits doesn't seem like a good deal compared to being able to ride a mount.

    I believe that the 4 archers popped in Dis city were created without spare AP. What about the two that came on the Balrug?

    As for the builds on the other units, all I'm going to say for right now is that I'm going to put dance-fighting on all of them. I want to know if heavy is going to be 2AP or not before continuing.

    What exactly can I learn about the new units from the crown? (My opinion on the heavy/mount discussion depends on, among other things, the strength of the mounts we'll have available. Will giving leadership to a mount's rider extend the bonus to the mount, or will boosting rider and mount take up two stack slots.)

    How quickly can we start using the crown to pop the new units? Do we have to wait until we can actually get the crown to our ruler? If we send it back on the Balrug with Wanderous and Junetta, will it take 4 turns to get there? (Under the new rules, Cupid has 10 more overland hex move then anyone else. How does that compare to the Balrug and how fast can he get the crown to King Creperum and get back here?)

    If we want to use the gems to upgrade either Dis city or the capital, will we need to transport the gems to Creperum?

    Do I hold the position of Chief Warlord of Tenebris, or does that distinction belong to someone else?

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:55 pm 
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    So I can tweak my char a bit. Ok, I see (and if something's wrong, correct me)

    I've got 2AP to spend at level 1. Formerly, I spent both on Well Armed. But that's now worth 1AP only, so I can buy Well protected as well.

    Will is L4. By the levelling up rules, this means he has aquired 3 extra AP, and 9(!) stat points.

    All stat points go to Combat. 1AP goes to the purchase of Mighty Blow x2. 1AP to purchase Mighty Blow (again) and Coordinate. Final one purchases Reckless Assault.

    This puts the stats at:

    19 Combat / 6 Defense / 22 Hits. 8 Square Move. 8 Overland Hex Move. Fire.

    (I assume that I can use Reckless Assault without previously declaring MBx3, and that MBx3 is merely the prerequisite to purchase the ability).

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:33 pm 
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    Swodaems wrote:
    What exactly can I learn about the new units from the crown?

    Right now, all you can tell from the crown is an impression of a winged horse. No stat information is available (nor will it be before the rules are finalized and you're able to pop the first one). The dollamancy mount should provide a rough approximation, however, that you can use for comparison purposes, and it appears likely that your side will have a dollmancer.

    Swodaems wrote:
    Will giving leadership to a mount's rider extend the bonus to the mount, or will boosting rider and mount take up two stack slots.)

    No, leadership has to be applied to each unit separately. Mount/Rider combo costs 2 slots.

    Swodaems wrote:
    How quickly can we start using the crown to pop the new units? Do we have to wait until we can actually get the crown to our ruler?

    Yes, you have to wait. Magic items must be worn to be effective.

    Swodaems wrote:
    If we send it back on the Balrug with Wanderous and Junetta, will it take 4 turns to get there? (Under the new rules, Cupid has 10 more overland hex move then anyone else. How does that compare to the Balrug and how fast can he get the crown to King Creperum and get back here?)
    Tenebris is 32 move away from Dis City. The Balrug has a 40 hex move, and can carry 4 passengers. (It also has 0 combat, 1 defense, 4 hits and 8 squares move, just as an FYI.) It can reach the Capital from Dis City in a single turn, so you can get the crown there by the end of the turn and set orders for units to pop at the start of the next turn. Your side currently only has 1 Balrug; they take 4 turns for a Level 4 city to pop, 2 turns in a level 5, and can't be popped in a level 3 or lower at all.

    Swodaems wrote:
    If we want to use the gems to upgrade either Dis city or the capital, will we need to transport the gems to Creperum?
    Any unit on a side can 'use' a gem to place the gem's value into a side's treasury at any time, anywhere (including from within the Ruin Hex Dungeon rooms).

    Swodaems wrote:
    Do I hold the position of Chief Warlord of Tenebris, or does that distinction belong to someone else?
    That position is currently held by your ruler. Until a ruler explicitly delegates a title to one of his subordinates, that ruler holds the title by default.

    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    All stat points go to Combat. 1AP goes to the purchase of Mighty Blow x2. 1AP to purchase Mighty Blow (again) and Coordinate. Final one purchases Reckless Assault.
    This puts the stats at: 19 Combat / 6 Defense / 22 Hits. 8 Square Move. 8 Overland Hex Move. Fire.
    Yes, you are correct:
    1: 10 Combat / 6 Defense / 10 Hits / 8 {8} / Fire / Well-Armed / Well-Protected.
    2: 13 Combat / 6 Defense / 14 Hits / 8 {8} / Fire / Well-Armed / Well-Protected; Mighty Blow x2
    3: 16 Combat / 6 Defense / 18 Hits / 8 {8} / Fire / Well-Armed / Well-Protected; Mighty Blow x3, Coordinate
    4: 19 Combat / 6 Defense / 22 Hits / 8 {8} / Fire, Quick-Shot / Well-Armed / Well-Protected; Mighty Blow x3, Coordinate, Reckless Assault
    Note that all Level 4 casters also have Quick-Shot now.

    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    I assume that I can use Reckless Assault without previously declaring MBx3, and that MBx3 is merely the prerequisite to purchase the ability.
    That is correct. Reckless Assault and Mighty Blow can be used together in any combination. From an optimization perspective, you may wish to spend at least 1 Combat Stat on defense, so that you could take -6 to defense (Reckless Assault + 2 Mighty Blow, for example).

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:10 pm 
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    Before I decide on a character bulid I need to know if Heavy will cost 2AP or 3 as I'm still interested in taking Heavy

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:18 pm 
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    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Before I decide on a character bulid I need to know if Heavy will cost 2AP or 3 as I'm still interested in taking Heavy

    Heavy (3 AP): Unit gains +3 Combat / +4 Defense / +10 Hits. Units with Heavy cannot ride a mount.

    Edit, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY Play this when we return to Dis City

    [ 5 Combat / 3 Defense / 16 Hits / 8 {8} Move. Fire. Special: Croakamancy (Reanimator, Bone Puppeteer, Uncroak, Pall Raiser, Bone Warlord). 47 Juice.] (Ward-8) Scroll: Revitalize, Scroll: Renew, Scroll: Lucky Streak, Scroll: Regenerate, Potion: Restore Juice (Restore 20)

    I edited my statblock, Boosted my combat, lowered my juice.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:46 pm 
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    Before I make a final call on the final AP cost of Heavy, I want to point out that since you are adjacent to all squares that your mount is adjacent to, mounts that take up 2x2 squares (or 3x3!) will effectively expand your attack range. Bad Asses, for example, will occupy a 2x2 square area, and have flight. In your opinions, does that change the desirability of mounts over heavy?

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:34 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    I can't help but think that at 2 AP Heavy would be undercosted for line units- but at the same time, at 3 AP it would be overcosted for elite units. Basically, the distinction is this: If your side can afford a mount for you, Heavy is significantly worse than having a mount for a host of obvious reasons. But if your side can't afford a mount for you, then it remains the premier way to boost your raw stats and will become even more so if made cheaper.

    I'm not sure how to remedy this. Perhaps, instead of being a flat bonus, the Heavy ability could be expressed as a per-level bonus? Looked at that way, Heavy currently gives you somewhere between 10 and 11 stat points in exchange for 3 AP and the ability to ride mounts. What if it gave you 4 additional stat points per level instead? That would make it an incredibly valuable ability- but not really until you reach high levels, which conveniently is exactly when your Overlord would be looking at you as someone who maybe rates highly enough to be given a mount anyway. The numbers might need tweaking, but that's the only way I can think of at the moment to keep the two balanced against each other.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:59 pm 
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    I think that's an excellent idea, Exate. I'd like to front-load it a bit, though, so that low-level units gain a benefit if they take it on creation. What about the following?

    Heavy (3 AP) : Unit gains 4 Combat Stats + 3 Combat Stats per level (granting 7 total combat stats to a 1st level character). Unit cannot ride a mount.

    So, a level 2 has 10 (which could be +3/+4/+9 Hits, right back in original 'heavy' range), and they continue to scale from there. Heavy units can now spend 6 stats each level, making heavy archers and especially fliers into valuable and scary units.

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